Belgian candi sugar instead of dextrose

[trentar]

Hello fellow homebrewers,

I have this extract for Belgian Pale ale from Mangrove Jack's: Traditional Series Belgian Pale Ale at which 500 g of dextrose is required for primary fermentation. I have an additional 500 g of belgian candi sugar which best before date is in one week, so I would like to use it in this batch. My question is, how do I calculate the appropriate amount of candi sugar for substituion of 500 g of dextrose?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Both contribute fermentable sugars, but at different rates: dextrose: 46 PPG, many candi sugars: 36 PPG (link). Candi sugar can also contribute color.

If it's a clear candi sugar, a direct substitution would be reasonable. If it's a colored candi sugar, recipe software could be used to help estimate the SRM impact.

Also, similar Q&A can be found here:

Hello again,

how would I calculate the appropriate amount of candi sugar for primary fermentation for this extract for Belgian Pale ale Traditional Series Belgian Pale Ale at which 500 g of dextrose is required for primary fermentation?

Best regards

 

[trentar]

Both contribute fermentable sugars, but at different rates: dextrose: 46 PPG, many candi sugars: 36 PPG (link). Candi sugar can also contribute color.

If it's a clear candi sugar, a direct substitution would be reasonable. If it's a colored candi sugar, recipe software could be used to help estimate the SRM impact.

It is a clear candi sugar Kandirani beli sladkor 500g. So 500 g of it would suffice? Because if I use priming calculator (Beer Priming Calculator - Brewer's Friend) I get that I would have to use 100 g more of candi sugar (for equivalent 500 g of dextrose), but I guess you can't really extrapolate this to the primary fermentation?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

From the original description

I have this extract for Belgian Pale ale from Mangrove Jack's: Traditional Series Belgian Pale Ale at which 500 g of dextrose is required for primary fermentation. I have an additional 500 g of belgian candi sugar which best before date is in one week, so I would like to use it in this batch. My question is, how do I calculate the appropriate amount of candi sugar for substituion of 500 g of dextrose?

I assumed that the sugar was being added to the fermenter (and was not being used for bottling).

Because if I use priming calculator (Beer Priming Calculator - Brewer's Friend) I get that I would have to use 100 g more of candi sugar (for equivalent 500 g of dextrose), but I guess you can't really extrapolate this to the primary fermentation?

A priming calculator is used for determining the additional sugar needed at bottling time. It's probably not appropriate for estimating ingredient substitutions. Recipe software (like "Beer Recipe Calculator - Brewer's Friend" ) appears to be more appropriate for the type of recipe ingredient substitutions you appear to be making.

 

[trentar]

From the original description

I assumed that the sugar was being added to the fermenter (and was not being used for bottling).


A priming calculator is used for determining the additional sugar needed at bottling time. It's probably not appropriate for estimating ingredient substitutions. Recipe software (like "Beer Recipe Calculator - Brewer's Friend" ) appears to be more appropriate for the type of recipe ingredient substitutions you appear to be making.

Yes, you assumed right, I plan to use it for primary fermentation instead of dextrose.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I plan to use it for primary fermentation instead of dextrose.

Assuming a 5 gal (19L) batch and a clear candi sugar, the substitution appears to have no impact on estimated SRM and appears to lower estimated OG by 2 [ (46 PPG - 36 PPG) * 1.1 lbs / 5 gal ].

As noted earlier, "Beer Recipe Calculator - Brewer's Friend" could be used to double check the substitution.

 

[trentar]

Assuming a 5 gal (19L) batch and a clear candi sugar, the substitution appears to have no impact on estimated SRM and appears to lower estimated OG by 2 [ (46 PPG - 36 PPG) * 1.1 lbs / 5 gal ].

As noted earlier, "Beer Recipe Calculator - Brewer's Friend" could be used to double check the substitution.

Thank you, but since I am using the whole extract I don't know what to put into the Fermentables field (in addition to sugar of choice) since I don't know what malts did they use in the process.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If you have a list of ingredients and a target batch size that you can post here, that may be enough additional information to confirm the assumptions.

 

[trentar]

If you have a list of ingredients and a target batch size that you can post here, that may be enough additional information to confirm the assumptions.

I have this extract which I have posted before (Traditional Series Belgian Pale Ale), see also the image below, batch size iz 10 l or 2.6 US Gal. I have 500 g of clear belgian candi sugar which I plan to use it. I have also additional 1 kg of dextrose. The planned ABV for this extract is 9%. If I use all 500 g of candi sugar and no additional sugar, while I don't mind the lower final ABV, would that be ok?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I didn't know that MJ put recipe instructions on the outside of their pouches. The image on that web page is rather small on my device and I didn't consider zooming in to see if there was additional information on the package. The image you posted isn't much better, but you provided the batch size - which should be good enough to wrap up this topic.

(46 PPG - 36 PPG) * 1.1 lbs / 2.5 gal would be a loss of about 4 OG. Since you don't mind the lower final ABV, it sounds like it will be OK for you.

 

[Vale71]

Since you're using candi sugar in solid form you have to use the same amount as when using dextrose as both are 100% sugar with no water content.

Candi syrup on the other hand has a lower yield because it is liquid and contains water.

 

[Vale71]

Both contribute fermentable sugars, but at different rates: dextrose: 46 PPG, many candi sugars: 36 PPG (link).

That simply doesn't make sense. Sugar cannot contain that much water and still be in crystallized form.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Looks like you may have found a clerical error in a generally trusted source of information.



(addition): see also

 

[trentar]

I didn't know that MJ put recipe instructions on the outside of their pouches. The image on that web page is rather small on my device and I didn't consider zooming in to see if there was additional information on the package. The image you posted isn't much better, but you provided the batch size - which should be good enough to wrap up this topic.

(46 PPG - 36 PPG) * 1.1 lbs / 2.5 gal would be a loss of about 4 OG. Since you don't mind the lower final ABV, it sounds like it will be OK for you.

Thank you!

 

[Yooper]

Looks like you may have found a clerical error in a generally trusted source of information.



(addition): see also
View attachment 696014

I've just checked sources- and I have about half that say that the candi sugar is 38 ppm and about half that say 45/46. I wonder if the "rocks" just have more liquid or other volume vs. the finely granulated sugars?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

... and suddendly, the plot thickens ...

I've just checked sources- and I have about half that say that the candi sugar is 38 ppm and about half that say 45/46

Thanks for the double check - and, honestly, I wasn't anticipating to see half at 38 and half at 46.

Earlier, I had scanned the product information that OP mentioned (reply #3) - but didn't see any PPG information. But with a 9% pale ale, a couple of missing/extra GPs likely will not be a problem.

 

[Yooper]

... and suddendly, the plot thickens ...



Thanks for the double check - and, honestly, I wasn't anticipating to see half at 38 and half at 46.

Earlier, I had scanned the product information that OP mentioned (reply #3) - but didn't see any PPG information. But with a 9% pale ale, a couple of missing/extra GPs likely will not be a problem.

I might be WAY overthinking this, but I thought I would update it. And found that it was hard to find data for the solids (not the liquid candi syrup). I am trying to picture the discrepancy- I mean, sugar is sugar. I found the numbers for the % of fructose/sucrose/glucose for one manufacturer, but still no data to figure the ppm.

 

[Vale71]

I've just checked sources- and I have about half that say that the candi sugar is 38 ppm and about half that say 45/46. I wonder if the "rocks" just have more liquid or other volume vs. the finely granulated sugars?

Sugar in crystal form must be anhydrous. The most likely reason for the incorrect entries is probably just a mix-up between candi syrup and candi sugar simply because they both have "candi" in the name.

 

[Qhrumphf]

If it's hard sugar, it's sugar. 32-36ppg for syrup (varies), hard candi sugar 44-45ppg (hardly varies).

If you already have it and don't have another use, use it. Otherwise, dextrose is cheaper. I'll never buy hard candi sugar. Even the "dark" versions provide minimal character and are a waste of money. The syrup is entirely another story. The clear stuff is kinda pointless for the same reason as above, but the dark stuff the character impact can be massive.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I might be WAY overthinking this

Nope - to me it looks like some deeper research to attempt to find published numbers.

And thanks for the update!

 

[VikeMan]

Sugar in crystal form must be anhydrous.

If it's hard sugar, it's sugar. 32-36ppg for syrup (varies), hard candi sugar 44-45ppg (hardly varies).

If it's pure and anhydrous, it should be 46 PPG (actually 46.21 PPG).