Beer is not very crisp....any thoughts?

[DSMbrewer]

I have two 5 gal batches that are "smoother" than I would like them to be. Carbonation is fine, but not crisp on the finish. One batch is Maibock and one double IPA. Very different styles with same kind of finish. maybe its just me, but I'd like a little crisp finish on batches going forward. Both batches were bottle conditioned......

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance!!!

 

[Revvy]

What's your definition of "crisp?" That could mean anything.

We also need more info on your beers/process to help you. Like are the kits, extract, ag. How long do you leave them in primary, what type of yeast do you use, etc. There's a million variables that we need before we can help you, beyond just your definition of crisp.

 

[weirdboy]

I don't really know what "crisp" means either, but maybe your water chemistry is different? Maybe softer water?

 

[Revvy]

Here's the standard definitions for Crisp;

adj. crisp·er, crisp·est
1. Firm but easily broken or crumbled; brittle: crisp potato chips.
2. Pleasingly firm and fresh: crisp carrot and celery sticks.
3.
a. Bracing; invigorating: crisp mountain air.
b. Lively; sprightly: music with a crisp rhythm.
4. Conspicuously clean or new: a crisp dollar bill.
5. Marked by clarity, conciseness, and briskness: a crisp reply. See Synonyms at incisive.
6. Having small curls, waves, or ripples.

I'm going to think that you mean number 2....Pleasingly firm and fresh.

I will say that I have had judges in contests describe some of my beers as Crisp and Clean tasting. But again that's subjective.

I will say that all I do is leave my beers in primary for a month then bottle.

 

[DSMbrewer]

Revvy.....#2 would be correct!! I agree it is subjective, but it's all I could think of. Both beers I used Wyeast's Pac Man when it was avail. I ferment in plastic for 10 days and transfer to secondary, glass, for another 7 days and bottle. plus, I like #6 BTTW......thanks for your imput!!

 

[Revvy]

Revvy.....#2 would be correct!! I agree it is subjective, but it's all I could think of. Both beers I used Wyeast's Pac Man when it was avail. I ferment in plastic for 10 days and transfer to secondary, glass, for another 7 days and bottle. plus, I like #6 BTTW......thanks for your imput!!

That's too soon to be racking and bottling. That's more than likely the cause of muddied flavors. You are not letting the yeast do it's thing and then clean up after itself.

I would leave your next batch in primary for a month, then bottle it. You will be surprised how crisp the beer will be, AND clear as well.

Even if you opt to secondary, I would wait at least 2 weeks before racking to secondary, and leave it for a minimum of two weeks. Again that gives the yeast plenty of time to clean up it's own byproducts of fermentation. And that will more than likely lend the crispness you desire, at least that's been my experience.

 

[DSMbrewer]

Thanks for your help!! I really appreciate it!! I hope I can be patient enough to do that!!

 

[ChshreCat]

Are these extract, partial mash or all grain brews? Brewing process can make a difference as well. "crispness" IMO tends to go along with dryness. If you're doing all grain and mashing too high, it can affect that.

 

[DSMbrewer]

I'm a partial mash guy Cat.

 

[Yooper]

I think of lagers have having a characteristicly crisp finish. That comes from the lagering process- fermenting cool, using lager yeast, and then lagering. You won't get that finish from an ale. You can make some fine ales with pacman yeast, but you can't make a lager with it!

 

[JonK331]

Are these extract, partial mash or all grain brews? Brewing process can make a difference as well. "crispness" IMO tends to go along with dryness. If you're doing all grain and mashing too high, it can affect that.

I agree. What are your final gravities?

 

[Strave19]

First thing that came to my mind is not being crisp being related to not being dry enough. Good flavor but still too sweet and "full" feeling? Final gravities could clear it up...

and I now noticed that the above posts said the same thing

 

[DSMbrewer]

OG in the 1.065 to 1.070 range. They finished at around 1.016.

 

[ChshreCat]

Extracts can sometimes have a high percentage of unfermentables. If you do your mash side a degree or two lower to compensate and then give it more time as Revvy said, you might like the product a bit more.

 

[DSMbrewer]

so one solution is to step to all grain to rid myself of the extract right?? I have not had the opptie to see a batch of all grain done. Any suggestions?

 

[ChshreCat]

I do all partial mash beers and I can make them very crisp if I want, so you don't HAVE to go to AG to solve this problem. If you wanna to AG anyway though, go for it. I just do my mash a little lower than or might otherwise. Oh, and I try to have as much grain in the recipe as I can. Basically mash as much as I can boil, then add enough extract to account for topping up since I have to do a partial boil.

 

[passedpawn]

I don't consider either maibocks or IIPAs to be crisp. Too big OG, too big FG.

You might just want to brew a simple pilsner (or cream ale) and stick to the OG (i.e., < 1.050). Mash at 150. Hop at the top of the style guidelines. You'll get crisp. Maybe take a shot at a dry saisson.

When I first started brewing, it seemed like I always pushed every beer to the upper end of the OG range. It was a thrill to make these big beers. But it got old, and now I crave the bitters, pilsners, and lighter beers. They are crisp, and great for the summer.

 

[Revvy]

I don't consider either maibocks or IIPAs to be crisp.

It's funny though, one of the beers that I feel is one of the "crispiest" beers I ever brew, and the one that I think was the one that the judges called crisp, was Yooper's dead guy clone, which although not a true maiboc is still a maiboc style ale. IIRC I may have even brewed that one with bottle harvested pacman. It may have even been the beer I "accidently" left in primary for a month for the first time.

Personally one of the crispiest beers I have ever brewed is Conroe's https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/mojave-red-112308/ Ale. I think the "snappiest" comes from the 3 oz in it Melanoidin Malt, I've also subbed Belgian Aromatic for that in subsequent batches, and it is where the peppiness comes from.

 

[DSMbrewer]

Cat,
What temp are you suggesting for mash?

 

[ChshreCat]

Cat,
What temp are you suggesting for mash?

Can't say, since I don't know what temp you've been mashing at. Just a degree or two lower than what you've been doing. Small adjustments in mash temp make noticeable changes.

 

[DSMbrewer]

usually mash at 156. I've found it difficult to hold temp on the stove top. next batch i have 2lbs of 2 row, 2 lbs Vienna, 1/2 lb carapils, 1/2 lb crystal 15. Would you suggest 30 minute mash with this much grain or 60? Not quite so difficult to hold mash temp for 30 min.....suggestions?

 

[JuanMoore]

usually mash at 156. I've found it difficult to hold temp on the stove top. next batch i have 2lbs of 2 row, 2 lbs Vienna, 1/2 lb carapils, 1/2 lb crystal 15. Would you suggest 30 minute mash with this much grain or 60? Not quite so difficult to hold mash temp for 30 min.....suggestions?

156 is at the upper end of the range, which will produce more unfermentable sugars leading to a high FG and a sweet full bodied taste. Try closer to 150-152 and see how you like it. The carapils will also add to the full body, so if you want crisp and dry you might reduce the amount. I'd think you'd want to mash for an hour, as the longer the mash the further the sugars will get broken down.

 

[heywolfie1015]

156 is at the upper end of the range, which will produce more unfermentable sugars leading to a high FG and a sweet full bodied taste. Try closer to 150-152 and see how you like it. The carapils will also add to the full body, so if you want crisp and dry you might reduce the amount. I'd think you'd want to mash for an hour, as the longer the mash the further the sugars will get broken down.

+1 to this. In fact, if you want it really dry, try a high 140s mash for 60-90 minutes.

Another thing to consider here is carbonation. Higher carbonation gives more of that effervescent, crisp feel to a brew. Think of a saison or wit beer, or even a BMC. Part of the refreshing aspect to those brews is their higher-than-average carbonation levels.

 

[DSMbrewer]

so with 5 lbs of grain, does strike water need to be about 155*?? I'm a stovetop brewer for now so it's tough to hold temp for an hour. Any suggestions for that? My oven won't set below 170*..........

 

[JuanMoore]

so with 5 lbs of grain, does strike water need to be about 155*?? I'm a stovetop brewer for now so it's tough to hold temp for an hour. Any suggestions for that? My oven won't set below 170*..........

Strike temp is somewhat dependent on your equipment and the temp of the grain, but I think somwhere between 155 and 160 would be about right. You could put the lid on the pot and wrap it in a towel or blanket. Make sure to avoid the temptation to open the lid a bunch as it will lose a lot of heat every time you do. You could also put it in the oven and leave the door cracked. 170 isn't that high, so maybe you could just open the oven door a couple times during the mash.

If you mash lower and for a longer time and still aren't getting the crispness you want, the next step would be to look at water chemistry. A lack of sulfates in the water could also be partly to blame.

 

[ChshreCat]

If you're having trouble holding temp, try this:

When you start heating your water for the mash, turn your oven on to it's lowest setting. Mash in like you normally do and when you get it to the right temp, turn the oven off and put your pot in there. The residual warmth in the oven will maintain the temperature of your mash pot much better than having it on the stove, trying to ride it using the burner.

 

[WAdamC]

so one solution is to step to all grain to rid myself of the extract right?? I have not had the opptie to see a batch of all grain done. Any suggestions?

Yeah, I have one. PM me. You're more than welcome to come up to Ames and brew an AG batch with me. I'll even provide materials, less yeast. That should surely get you itching to switch. Just bring a fermenter.

 

[DSMbrewer]

Mashed in 5 lb grain @ 148 and held in oven. Worked nice!!!! Brewing a Two Hearted Clone now and it seems as if all systems are a go. Thanks for all the help gang! I appreciate it.