Beer Cellar thread - real cellars, closet cellars, fridge cellars, freezer cellars, wine coolers

[stupac2]

I've seen the standing freezer units with a temp controller. Is this doable with a fridge unit or is there some reason its not? I imagine it would be fine. I'm looking to get a fridge and its easier to find a fridge/freezer than a standing freezer

Those work just fine on fridges, though there's a chance that a fridge set to the lowest temperature will be about the right temp.

 

[jtmartino1]

I have a fridge with a temp controller. Only problem is that the shelves bow under the weight of the beer.

 

[ExPimp]

I have a fridge with a temp controller. Only problem is that the shelves bow under the weight of the beer.

Those shelves have a lot of bow in them... I'd keep my eye on that!

You might be able to help the shelves with the larger format bottles (if they have enough headroom) by putting some plywood down on top of them.

wanted to thank DanzBorin & stupac2 for the guidance. shelving works beautifully!

 

[DanzBorin]

Finished moving the cellar into its new location:

It's a pretty narrow space, only 6', but I think it'll work well. Plenty of space to expand, which is good, though I kind of hope I don't need it. The thermometer was reading ~58 before I had the lights on and was moving around in there for hours, so I'm optimistic about temperatures. I'm going to put some insulation on the walls and ceiling at some point, I think it should keep pretty cool after that. I'll also need to build a wall/door at some point, this is right behind the furnace and water heater.

Also, this took way longer to do than it should've because of:

Those are rat tracks, in case you can't tell. Among the many move things about moving into my own home is that I can actually control this space, so there won't be any ******* rats in here. Cleaning every single bottle took forever...

Dust shows ultra .rar and tasty bottles... now they are just meh

 

[stupac2]

Dust shows ultra .rar and tasty bottles... now they are just meh

Hopefully they'll get more dust.

 

[DanzBorin]

Hopefully they'll get more dust.

they would have had twice as much dust! lol

 

[stupac2]

they would have had twice as much dust! lol

I know, I was definitely muttering "but... but the patina..." as I was wiping them all down. However, ensuring that they're free from rat urine and/or feces is worth losing the dust.

 

[RyanG1]

I have a fridge with a temp controller. Only problem is that the shelves bow under the weight of the beer.

Be right over!

 

[jtmartino1]

Snip

Tried that but the spacing doesn't work. I'll have to cut new holes for my shelves but haven't gotten around to it...

Will prob do it anyway since the top rack can only hold bombers and I have more 750 format bottles.

 

[maximthegreat]

I spent a few days going through this thread trying to decide how to set up my cellar instead of just having boxes stacked in the basement. My basement temperature ranges from 48 to 72, so I decided I needed to do something to control the temp. Started hunting on Craigslist for used coolers in April and last week finally found these and had them delivered:

 

[maximthegreat]

Also, what are you fellas setting your cooler temperature at? I'm at 52 degrees right now for lambic and 58 for red wine.

 

[jtmartino1]

Also, what are you fellas setting your cooler temperature at? I'm at 52 degrees right now for lambic and 58 for red wine.

52 is my magic number.

 

[nophunk]

52 is my magic number.

One of my buddies in town who is a R&D chef (so background in food science)/excellent sour brewer has been telling me that 57-60 is ideal for beers with souring bacteria. He says that at 55 degrees and under, those temps will inhibit the properties that we like from reaching their full potential as these beers age. I'd like to hear more people weigh in on this!

 

[jtmartino1]

One of my buddies in town who is a R&D chef (so background in food science)/excellent sour brewer has been telling me that 57-60 is ideal for beers with souring bacteria. He says that at 55 degrees and under, those temps will inhibit the properties that we like from reaching their full potential as these beers age. I'd like to hear more people weigh in on this!

What does he mean "ideal for beers with souring bacteria"? Warmer temperatures will certainly promote more bacterial growth, but I don't particularly want that to happen to my beer, especially the fruited sours. Perhaps your friend is a huge fan of palate-destroying sourness?

If so, he should try to age an Imperial Bu from DeGarde or one of the Upland Lambics around room temp for a month. The acidity will be tremendous.

There are far too many moving parts for someone to say that 57-60 is better than 52 without some substantial empirical data, because yeast and bacteria have slowed activity at all of those temperatures anyways.

I keep bottles at 52 because I think beer tastes better at that temperature, and it allows for a easier warming during drinking than if the beer was kept at regular refrigerated temp (42F).

 

[DanzBorin]

What does he mean "ideal for beers with souring bacteria"? Warmer temperatures will certainly promote more bacterial growth, but I don't particularly want that to happen to my beer, especially the fruited sours. Perhaps your friend is a huge fan of palate-destroying sourness?

If so, he should try to age an Imperial Bu from DeGarde or one of the Upland Lambics around room temp for a month. The acidity will be tremendous.

There are far too many moving parts for someone to say that 57-60 is better than 52 without some substantial empirical data, because yeast and bacteria have slowed activity at all of those temperatures anyways.

I keep bottles at 52 because I think beer tastes better at that temperature, and it allows for a easier warming during drinking than if the beer was kept at regular refrigerated temp (42F).

I think that lambics can develop more funk with a bit higher temp.

It brings to questions what temps Cantillon, etc. keep their beers cellared at. I'd guess high 50s, low-mid 60s.

 

[jtmartino1]

I think that lambics can develop more funk with a bit higher temp.

It brings to questions what temps Cantillon, etc. keep their beers cellared at. I'd guess high 50s, low-mid 60s.

Absolutely, the higher the temp the greater the biologic activity of all agents (until about 100F or a high level of acidity is reached).

Higher temps certainly work well for beers with substantial yeast profiles. Most American Wild Ales, however, are dominated by pedio and lacto, and therefore would just get more sour far before getting funky. Even fruited lambics tend to get a lot more sour (I've had crazy sour bottles of Fou).

I simply don't have enough nonfruited lambics or gueuzes to worry

 

[nophunk]

What does he mean "ideal for beers with souring bacteria"? Warmer temperatures will certainly promote more bacterial growth, but I don't particularly want that to happen to my beer, especially the fruited sours. Perhaps your friend is a huge fan of palate-destroying sourness?

Not the case. He is saying this temp is ideal for geuze and similar beers that develop funk but not a crazy lactic sourness. I don't really age my AWA for more than 6 months to a year in most cases, so I'm not worried about that. The majority of people I encounter closet age anyway, and often those beers are sitting at 70-75 degrees for some period of time with no negative effects (too sour).

I think that lambics can develop more funk with a bit higher temp.

It brings to questions what temps Cantillon, etc. keep their beers cellared at. I'd guess high 50s, low-mid 60s.

Cantillon cellar is a natural underground cellar. The temps fluctuate from 50-70 give or take (from what I remember). There was a big article with pictures and commentary from Jean when they moved all the bottles.

 

[jtmartino1]

Not the case. He is saying this temp is ideal for geuze and similar beers that develop funk but not a crazy lactic sourness. I don't really age my AWA for more than 6 months to a year in most cases, so I'm not worried about that. The majority of people I encounter closet age anyway, and often those beers are sitting at 70-75 degrees for some period of time with no negative effects (too sour).

Good points - I can see how the higher temp is good for gueuzes and things with a complex yeast profile. I can tell you first-hand that certain AWAs will get much more sour, much quicker from closet aging (but then again, it depends on the temp of the closet!)

 

[stupac2]

Cantillon cellar is a natural underground cellar. The temps fluctuate from 50-70 give or take (from what I remember). There was a big article with pictures and commentary from Jean when they moved all the bottles.

This is why I don't get too worried about temperature until its above 70. I want temperatures to be below 60, but if Cantillon and De Heeren and Kulminator and Grote Dorst and all the rest manage to produce beers that taste amazing after 20+ years in a cellar without any control and that clearly gets into the upper 60's, I just don't see why I should worry. That's more than enough empirical test for me.

That said, I still want to insulate my cellar from the rest of the house. Especially now that I've figured out that the dryer, which is at the opposite end of the same room, just dumps its heat right into the room. (I could fix that, conceivably, but it would be quite the PITA, there's a reason it's set up that way.)

 

[maximthegreat]

e had crazy sour bottles of Fou).

This is why I don't get too worried about temperature until its above 70. I want temperatures to be below 60, but if Cantillon and De Heeren and Kulminator and Grote Dorst and all the rest manage to produce beers that taste amazing after 20+ years in a cellar without any control and that clearly gets into the upper 60's, I just don't see why I should worry. That's more than enough empirical test for me.

That said, I still want to insulate my cellar from the rest of the house. Especially now that I've figured out that the dryer, which is at the opposite end of the same room, just dumps its heat right into the room. (I could fix that, conceivably, but it would be quite the PITA, there's a reason it's set up that way.)

I ended up going with the wine coolers mostly for the red wines and because my basement does hit low to mid 70s on those nice 100 degree Chicago summer days. I was originally going to do wine racks and put up some insulation in a small tool room, but I got these for a really good price, so i went with it.

 

[jtmartino1]

I ended up going with the wine coolers mostly for the red wines and because my basement does hit low to mid 70s on those nice 100 degree Chicago summer days. I was originally going to do wine racks and put up some insulation in a small tool room, but I got these for a really good price, so i went with it.

Aaaand they look awesome.

 

[DanzBorin]

I ended up going with the wine coolers mostly for the red wines and because my basement does hit low to mid 70s on those nice 100 degree Chicago summer days. I was originally going to do wine racks and put up some insulation in a small tool room, but I got these for a really good price, so i went with it.

Sadly in Houston you can't get a good deal on any kind of cooler like that. People want close to retail for used units.

 

[maximthegreat]

Sadly in Houston you can't get a good deal on any kind of cooler like that. People want close to retail for used units.

I literally checked Craigslist 3x/day for 6 weeks to find those. Most of the stuff on CL Chicago was also near retail or 20% off. I got these for a damn STEAL. I'm actually going to continue looking with hopes that I can find one or two more. These 2 are already near full with just my red wines and most of my lambic, FML.

 

[DanzBorin]

I literally checked Craigslist 3x/day for 6 weeks to find those. Most of the stuff on CL Chicago was also near retail or 20% off. I got these for a damn STEAL. I'm actually going to continue looking with hopes that I can find one or two more. These 2 are already near full with just my red wines and most of my lambic, FML.

Wish I had that much Lambic...

One day maybe... Texas and their no Shelton! :shakes fist:

 

[Hayden McCall]

My basement closet/******** cellar. At least it stays around 60 down there. At least I got rid of the wire baker's rack like shelving that was in here. That stuff was a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[drgarage1]

First stage of cellar makeover is complete. Much more to come, including more lambic for the side storage rows...

 

[RyanG1]

First stage of cellar makeover is complete. Much more to come, including more lambic for the side storage rows...

Those aged 831 growlers!

 

[drgarage1]

Those aged 831 growlers!

Hilariously, I found a full growler down there. Assuming it was just full of water and cleaning solution, I popped it -- homebrew Brett saison that tends to gush when not super cold. It managed to soak everything in a 10-foot radius before I got the top back on..,

 

[kindaphunky]

My basement closet/******** cellar. At least it stays around 60 down there. At least I got rid of the wire baker's rack like shelving that was in here. That stuff was a disaster waiting to happen.

Honest question. Do fruited berliners age well?

 

[DanzBorin]

Honest question. Do fruited berliners age well?

Probably not the best, but they are so low ABV you can knock out a row of those in a night.