Barleywine Recipe - Tweaks and suggestions?

[Matteo57]

Looking at doing this recipe, can you give any suggestions/tweaks? American Barleywine

2-Row Pale Malt – 83%
Munich Malt – 9%
Caramel/Crystal 60L - 5%
Biscuit Malt – 3%
OG: 1.120
IBU: 82
Boil Time: 120 minutes

Magnum FWH - 42.5 IBUS
Centennial - 30m - 22 IBUs
Simcoe - 15m - 10 IBUs
Amarillo WP for 20m at 170F

DH: 2oz each of Citra and Mosaic

yeast: Lutra or Nottingham for yeast. Never used Lutra for a high gravity beer like this, so not sure how it would do but thoughts?

Thank you!

 

[mashdar]

For 1.120 OG all-malt, IMO don't use crystal and err on the low side for mash temp.

edit: to elaborate, it's common for high-ABV beers to use sugar to dry it out and avoid being too thick. If you're not using sugar, that's not unheard of, but probably don't go out of your way to make it sweeter.

 

[kevin58]

Consider using invert sugar #2 or #3 instead of biscuit malt. Especially if your aim is to make an English Barley Wine. Invert gives a nice, round and rich flavor while adding a needed boost in gravity.

 

[Agent]

Depends on what you are going for.

Me personally - I like easier drinking Barley Wines. Usually do 50/50 2 row and Maris Otter plus a touch of Munich and sugar. 1.100 OG and around 1.015-1.020 FG.

I stick with the classic C hops, heavy on Centennial and Columbus, though Amarillo and Simcoe aren't unappreciated when I have them.

 

[Matteo57]

Thank you all for your responses! How much invert sugar usually is utilized for great results?

 

[Steveruch]

How long do you plan to age this?

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I disagree with the advice to scale down the crystal. In fact I'd suggest adding some darker crystal in there like 90.

Keep the mash temperature at 150 and use a high attenuating strain like Nottingham. I would also discourage the use of simple sugars as barleywines should be chewy.

I recently made a 1.093 OG American Barleywine with Nottingham Yeast mashed at 152 with 2.5% crystal 60 & 2.0% crystal 90. I thought it needed more caramel character (especially when comparing to a bigfoot). A very tasty beer, but more like an old school DIPA than a barleywine

If you look at the AHA recipes for Bigfoot it suggests 9% crystal 90. (which is probably a bit too crazy so take with grain of salt)

IMO if you scale down the crystal and add sugar you'll end up with a malty old school TIPA, not an American Barleywine.

Your OG is materially higher than a Bigfoot so crystal percentage should definitely be lower than Bigfoot clone, but I wouldn't go super low personally

Don't use Kveik yeast



https://search.app?link=https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/sierra-nevada-bigfoot-barleywine-ver-2/&utm_campaign=aga&utm_source=agsadl1,sh/x/gs/m2/4

 

[Matteo57]

How long do you plan to age this?

6mo+

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

Just to muddy the water a bit. Any historical barley wine grists I've seen are 100% pale malt. Usually two kinds, British and continental two row, that kind of thing.
For example...
https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2012/01/lets-brew-wednesday-1879-william.html
Saying that, I found one with adjuncts if you want a reference for that...
https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2018/06/lets-brew-wednesday-1956-tennants-gold.html

Edit:
This thread sent me down a rabbit hole for sure. If I was going to make a barley wine, I'd make this one. I think I will at some point.
Barley wine used to be served in ⅓ pint bottles (nips). I well remember that there would often be a pensioner (usually a woman) sitting in the lounge bar of any pub one walked in to, nursing a nip of barley wine. It would usually have been this one.
https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2013/12/lets-brew-wednesday-1972-whitbread-gold.html

 

[Miraculix]

He's talking about an American barley wine, not a British one.

 

[Velnerj]

It would be helpful to know what kind of flavor profile OP is aiming for. In my barley wines I like dark fruit and toffee, I use special b and some abbey malt plus up to 15% sugar. But that may not be the aim here.

What are you envisioning for this brew?

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

He's taking about an American barley wine, not a British one.

I know but he asked some questions about quantities of sugars etc, there are some ideas there. The major difference between an American and British BW would be hops choice.

 

[Miraculix]

I know but he asked some questions about quantities of sugars etc, there are some ideas there. The major difference between an American and British BW would be hops choice.

Is it really? The American ones I've seen were always quite heavy on crystal, when compared to the British ones that go more in line to what you are suggesting.

But it's not a style I pay too much attention to tbh, so I might have a bit of a distorted view here.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Something I've been contemplating experimenting with is using a different yeast strain like WLP002 (the fullers strain) rather than Nottingham to really bring out the malt character.

Strains like that aren't as capable of fermenting longer chain sugars like Nottingham. So I'd probably mash lower with a strain like that (and could even understand why one might add simple sugar in such a scenario)

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

Is it really? The American ones I've seen were always quite heavy on crystal, when compared to the British ones that go more in line to what you are suggesting.

But it's not a style I pay too much attention to tbh, so I might have a bit of a distorted view here.

I think the BJCP guidelines on American Barleywines state the malt bills are somewhere between a golden English barleywine and a darker English one. They also state that dark caramel is typically not appropriate which I personally think contradicts what the hallmark examples of the style use.

Bigfoot and Hog Heaven which in my mind are the signature examples of the style are darker in color and absolutely have strong caramel character.

 

[G_robertus]

I'd use MO as well even though it's an American barley wine. I also agree that less is more in a barley wine. Especially if you go above 1.110 you don't need too many character malts, like at most 5% but I would go for less. Depending on whether you bulk age or not, dry hopping might not be worth it either. Some hops age well, but others not as much.

 

[Miraculix]

Something I've been contemplating experimenting with is using a different yeast strain like WLP002 (the fullers strain) rather than Nottingham to really bring out the malt character.

Strains like that aren't as capable of fermenting longer chain sugars like Nottingham. So I'd probably mash lower with a strain like that (and could even understand why one might add simple sugar in such a scenario)

If you are after the fullers strain, do yourself a favour and use the version from Imperial Yeast, called Pub. This one is way better than 002.

I have brewed a barleywine with it and it was really great, but after three days I added US05 to aid attenuation. That is a killer combo but only worth it if you are after the esters of the yeast. I am not all too familiar with American Barley wine but if I am right, hops are in the focus. So the esters might be overshadowed anyway. I probably would go with US05 alone.

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

If you are after the fullers strain, do yourself a favour and use the version from Imperial Yeast, called Pub. This one is way better than 002.

I have brewed a barleywine with it and it was really great, but after three days I added US05 to aid attenuation. That is a killer combo but only worth it if you are after the esters of the yeast. I am not all too familiar with American Barley wine but if I am right, hops are in the focus. So the esters might be overshadowed anyway. I probably would go with US05 alone.

Do you feel like the imperial pub would accentuate malt character more than Nottingham or 05?

Also just how poor is the attenuation on it vs 05?

 

[DBhomebrew]

Something I've been contemplating experimenting with is using a different yeast strain like WLP002 (the fullers strain) rather than Nottingham to really bring out the malt character.

Strains like that aren't as capable of fermenting longer chain sugars like Nottingham. So I'd probably mash lower with a strain like that (and could even understand why one might add simple sugar in such a scenario)

I brew a Traquair House approximation regularly. 1.080 98% UK pale ale malt, not MO. Notty. Can't imagine needing more maltiness. Scottish strains very similar, Notty so much easier.

Agreed with the Pub for Fullers. Use it for esters rather than maltiness.

 

[Matteo57]

I'm looking for something sort of kind of like Big foot esq, that 10.5-11% would be good. American Barleywine, not English right now. I'll do that next year. I do want some caramel and toffee notes for sure but I don't want super big figgy/date/raisin type character you might get from some higher crystal malts like 120 or Special B.

 

[Miraculix]

Do you feel like the imperial pub would accentuate malt character more than Nottingham or 05?

Also just how poor is the attenuation on it vs 05?

I don't think it accentuates malt significantly stronger than Nottingham or similar yeasts. This beer will be malty whatever yeast you are going to use, because there's so much of it inside.

The most malt pushing yeast I know of is imperial yeast harvest. It is a lager strain (supposed to be Augustiner), but it can be used as an ale strain as well (tried it myself around 21c). This one mutes hops but heavily pushes the malt. So if you're up for some of the grid experiments, that would be my choice.

You could brew a nice helles and then pitch on the yeast cake. It's the best Helles yeast I ever tried.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I brew a Traquair House approximation regularly. 1.080 98% UK pale ale malt, not MO. Notty. Can't imagine needing more maltiness. Scottish strains very similar, Notty so much easier.

Agreed with the Pub for Fullers. Use it for esters rather than maltiness.

You just reminded me I need to brew one of those myself, I even got that Jeff Alworth book you talked about earlier.
I've just never gotten around to actually brew it...

 

[Miraculix]

The one thing I hate about barley wine is the waiting time... mine was nice after a few months. Really enjoyable. But it was STELLAR after 1.5 years and stayed at that level during the following year.

It is really hard to keep a brew around without touching it....

 

[DBhomebrew]

Last night I drank a barley wine brewed around Christmas 2020. Still very enjoyable. Like graham crackers spread with caramel.

 

[Steveruch]

6mo+

Keep in mind hop presence fades. You may want to increase your hops to account for that.
I once entered a British barleywine into a comp and got dinged, "too hoppy for style". A year later it took second place in best of show judging.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

Kinda ironic considering the types of ales paving the way for the barley wine style would have been hopped at rates making a contemporary American craft brewery proud...

 

[mashpaddled]

If you're making an American barleywine in the bigfoot variety, I think your recipe is fine as it is. That beer is sweeter than the typical old school American barleywine that was like an all grain DIPA but not anywhere close to the supersweet, lightly hopped barleywines brewed by a lot of modern American breweries.