Are People Still Using the Baker's Yeast Method?

[MSK_Chess]

I agree with most of this except #4. By claiming LODO can enhance (to improve) flavors, it indicates that it is better than others. LODO might help prevent the malt character compounds from becoming oxidized, but doesn't improve flavors. That would disregard an individuals preferences. Just trying to keep things objective.

Brew on

Actually its super interesting. The fascinating thing is that it has in my opinion a LODO approach has a profound effect on the taste perception of other styles of beers too, not just German styles. I brew mainly Pale Ales myself and I have found that as I applied the techniques my ales became lighter and crisper and took on an almost Pilsner like quality. I was dry hopping them too with 10-15g/g of hops, First Gold, EKG, Progress, Styrian Goldings, Fuggles etc and I certainly think them a vast improvement on the British style pale ales I used to brew and could never go back. Does it enhance flavour perception, I would honestly have to say yes, I think it does. But I do like crisp hoppy beers. The point i am trying to make is I doubt very much you could get the same kind of pale ales using conventional methodology.

At present I am brewing a Citra/Mosiac lager, a kind of Lager/IPA hybrid and I think the LODO techniques will certainly lend itself very well to the idea I had in my mind.

 

[lump42]

Well, maybe, maybe not. I have seen it do that, and while it may be a perceptual thing, the effect is there. Whether you think it "enhances" the flavors, well, I do agree, that's up to you to decide. As for me, I've seen it do that. Or tasted it do that.

I wasn't saying that you don't perceive an improved flavor or that there wasn't an effect. Just the previous points were objective and that if one can perceive the change, they may not prefer it and then on #4 you switched to a subjective opinion.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

#4 is still objective... enhance does not necessarily have to just mean a subjective "improve" but a more specific and objective "increased or intensified" quality.

The subjective part is only whether one enjoys greater malt character, hop character, etc.

 

[day_trippr]

Excuse me while I whip this out

The weather here was a "feels like 100°F+" day hence I didn't want to do the pre-boil thing, so I gave the yeast thing a try. I used 1.5g per gallon of both bakers yeast and corn sugar for my 20 gallons of brewing liquor, plus a bit of cacl and mgso4, gave the kettle a good stir, lidded it and left it for two hours.

I don't have an O2 meter currently (returned the last one, unimpressed with its performance, and haven't decided on another yet) so I have no real idea how well it worked - but I have my suspicion that it didn't work well, as today the mash smelled like a classic non-LoDO mash smells, and that hasn't been happening since I started pre-boiling batches early this year.

I'm wondering if the time factor needs to scale along with the yeast/sugar vs volume. It isn't clear from the LoDO site - seems stuck on small scale experimental results.

So, anyone out there with a DO meter that has tried the yeast thing on that large a volume of water? Or even half that volume?

Cheers!

 

[Bilsch]

What do you mean by larger? When I did the initial testing the small test batches worked just the same as the larger 8 gallon ones. Two hours should have been more then enough and I'm pretty sure unless your yeast was dead, it removed the oxygen from your water.

 

[lump42]

#4 is still objective... enhance does not necessarily have to just mean a subjective "improve" but a more specific and objective "increased or intensified" quality.

The subjective part is only whether one enjoys greater malt character, hop character, etc.

It may have other definitions; however with no other context, it is left to the reader to figure out which way was meant. I was just trying to provide clarification since the other points were clearly objective and that point left it open to interpretation.

 

[Iseneye]

I'm restraining myself from a rant here but I have seen two "LODO doesn't make a difference" posters on this forum state in the last few days that one has been brewing all grain less than a year, and one doesn't do pH adjustments. I would suggest that posters like that are not in a position to comment on whether LODO makes a difference.

 

[lump42]

I'm restraining myself from a rant here but I have seen two "LODO doesn't make a difference" posters on this forum state in the last few days that one has been brewing all grain less than a year, and one doesn't do pH adjustments. I would suggest that posters like that are not in a position to comment on whether LODO makes a difference.

I would hardly think anyone here can discredit other's opinions passed on their choice of brewing practices.

 

[schematix]

I would hardly think anyone here can discredit other's opinions passed on their choice of brewing practices.

Let's review facts vs opinion

Opinion is: low oxygen makes better beer than traditionally espoused home brewing practices.
Fact is: low oxygen makes a different beer than traditionally espoused home brewing practices.

If one states that the process doesn't make a difference, then they are clear ignorant to the process.

adjective
adjective: ignorant

1. lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.

 

[kh54s10]

I'm restraining myself from a rant here but I have seen two "LODO doesn't make a difference" posters on this forum state in the last few days that one has been brewing all grain less than a year, and one doesn't do pH adjustments. I would suggest that posters like that are not in a position to comment on whether LODO makes a difference.

I am the one who hasn't taken pH readings. I didn't say that LODO doesn't make a difference. My thought was "Is the difference worth the investment and hassle?" My average beer to me is better than most of the mid priced commercial beers. And that is without ever having taken a pH reading... YMMV

 

[lump42]

I am the one who hasn't taken pH readings. I didn't say that LODO doesn't make a difference. My thought was "Is the difference worth the investment and hassle?" My average beer to me is better than most of the mid priced commercial beers. And that is without ever having taken a pH reading... YMMV

I'm there with you. I've never bothered with any water chemistry other than neutralising chlorine/chloramine. Even kettle sours I run by taste not pH. My water is part of the terroir of my brewhouse.

I agree the potential results of LODO don't seem to be worth my efforts.

 

[hopjuice_71]

And this is a problem. Despite what you believe to be an absolute truth or, at the very least, most true to you, it is important to understand, and respect, that this may not be the case for everyone (yes, I'm Canadian). Sounds like bleeding heart tripe, but there is no way that anyone on this planet can have absolute certainty about their correctness about anything. For the record, I 100% adhere to the fact that LODO results in a different product - I have experienced it myself - I can seen why people like it, but I happen to not care for it (earlier post in this thread), so I can at least understand why others may not wish to go through the not completely trivial effort of pursuing it.

 

[schematix]

And this is a problem. Despite what you believe to be an absolute truth or, at the very least, most true to you, it is important to understand, and respect, that this may not be the case for everyone (yes, I'm Canadian). Sounds like bleeding heart tripe, but there is no way that anyone on this planet can have absolute certainty about their correctness about anything. For the record, I 100% adhere to the fact that LODO results in a different product - I have experienced it myself - I can seen why people like it, but I happen to not care for it (earlier post in this thread), so I can at least understand why others may not wish to go through the not completely trivial effort of pursuing it.

This isn't a philosophical debate about whether we can really be certain about anything.

It's about comments like this:

Lodo is superstition. Brew your beer the normal way as it has been done for thousands of years. Dont fall for the scientology lodo nonsense.

Pointless, snarky comments that are only meant to stir **** up. It doesn't add value to anything.

 

[lump42]

Why must people who are not even qualified, stick around make the topic go backwards? Why do people who have no interest in ever trying and or caring continue to look and talk about it?

This, I will never understand.

What makes you more qualified to way in on the topic than anyone else? Since when did a dissenting view make a topic go backwards? This assumes there is a direction that the topic needs to go. If every conversation was just to reaffirm someones theories and opinions than no real progress is made. If no one is critically looking over an idea how is it to improve?

Just because we don't see the cost:benefit doesn't mean we don't care...

This isn't a philosophical debate about whether we can really be certain about anything.

It's about comments like this:



Pointless, snarky comments that are only meant to stir poopy up. It doesn't add value to anything.

I agree that Jay's comment was not helpful and only helped shut any productive conversation down. It's no different than when any other brewing technique or process (batch sparge, BIAB, no sparge, water chemistry, etc.) was new and people looked down upon it. I have no issue with those that wish to pursue LODO brewing. I've never been an early adopter. If I ever take up LODO, it will likely be after it is widely accepted and more importantly the all the homebrew level kinks are worked out.

 

[schematix]

What makes you more qualified to way in on the topic than anyone else?

 

[corax]

Since when did a dissenting view make a topic go backwards?

It depends on the dissenting view, and how it is presented. If it is well-reasoned and novel, or it provides evidence in support of the dissent, then it is more than welcome, IMO.

But if it's just snarky BS, or resurrects views that have been debunked a thousand times before, then it's just useless noise.

 

[lump42]

It depends on the dissenting view, and how it is presented. If it is well-reasoned and novel, or it provides evidence in support of the dissent, then it is more than welcome, IMO.

But if it's just snarky BS, or resurrects views that have been debunked a thousand times before, then it's just useless noise.

Just as an consenting view can bring nothing or detract from a topic depending on how it is presented. If you push away dissenting views without any reasoning or objective evidence, it doesn't help any conversation either. Snarky BS on either side of a topic don't help, and are best ignored. Dismissing views because you feel they've been 'debunked' doesn't help move the topic in any meaningful way.

I have no problem with the idea of LODO. I agree Jay's comment calling it superstition is useless noise and frankly could be construed as an offensive religious remark against Scientology. But implying that those how don't prescribe to LODO are wrong because we don't see the value in the efforts is just as much a problem. I don't have much time to brew, so I don't see the any added effort and steps as a benefit to beer I already brew and enjoy.

 

[lump42]

That read harsher than I intended. In my past experience, those that openly tout their qualifications and claim to be experts rarely are. Excluding people from a conversation rarely helps it.

 

[schematix]

That read harsher than I intended. In my past experience, those that openly tout their qualifications and claim to be experts rarely are. Excluding people from a conversation rarely helps it.

You may wish to figure out who Die_Beerery is and correct your comment questioning his qualifications.

 

[corax]

But implying that those how don't prescribe to LODO are wrong because we don't see the value in the efforts is just as much a problem.

First, not seeing value in the effort is not a dissenting view. It's a perfectly good reason for not putting in the effort.

Second, I don't see many people here making that implication. In fact, I've seen quite a few bending over backwards to avoid even the appearance of such an implication.

 

[lump42]

You may wish to figure out who Die_Beerery is and correct your comment questioning his qualifications.

I never said anything questioning Die_Beerery's qualifications. Whatever qualifications he/she may posses, it doesn't qualify them to dismiss others from a conversation.

 

[Die_Beerery]

Except for the part where you literally did... But I bet you can guess. I don't care. I'm a boy boy I can take it AND move on. You know since it doesn't affect my real life in any shape or form.

Why are we still here discussing feelings?

Yeast Deoxy works.

People still use it.

The ratios are still the same.

Use it, don't use it, I don't care.

Move the fudge on, for Christs sake. I am tired of getting notifications, with people whining.

(trying for the 80th time to unsubscribe)

 

[schematix]

I never said anything questioning Die_Beerery's qualifications. Whatever qualifications he/she may posses, it doesn't qualify them to dismiss others from a conversation.

You actually quoted him and asked why he was more qualified.

And his qualifications do allow him to dismiss others when they are spouting nonsense.

 

[lump42]

You actually quoted him and asked why he was more qualified.

And his qualifications do allow him to dismiss others when they are spouting nonsense.

I apologize if you or anyone elsa read it in an offensive tone. The entire statement was intended more as a general 'you', not calling die_beerery out specifically. My intent was to say that one's qualifications, no matter how great or small, shouldn't allow them to dismiss someone from a conversation.

 

[schematix]

They are being dismissed for making sweeping incorrect factual statements when really what they mean to say is they just don't like it. Simply the difference between facts and opinions.

 

[bob1852]

They are being dismissed for making sweeping incorrect factual statements when really what they mean to say is they just don't like it. Simply the difference between facts and opinions.

I agree. It's a fact that LODO makes better beer is just an opinion.

 

[Die_Beerery]

I think this may just be the final push I needed to be done with this place for good.

I agree. It's a fact that LODO makes better beer is just an opinion.

Just like water modification, pH control, temperature control and moving from extract to all grain is.

 

[bob1852]

I think this may just be the final push I needed to be done with this place for good.



Just like water modification, pH control, temperature control and moving from extract to all grain is.

Water modifications, pH control, and temp control all have very wide ranges of target numbers depending on the style....

And in many cases, they're not as important as many think.

The LODO purists won't acknowledge that it's the same for oxygen.

 

[Dog House Brew]

You may wish to figure out who Die_Beerery is and correct your comment questioning his qualifications.

Great advice Sir

 

[Dog House Brew]

Except for the part where you literally did... But I bet you can guess. I don't care. I'm a boy boy I can take it AND move on. You know since it doesn't affect my real life in any shape or form.

Why are we still here discussing feelings?

Yeast Deoxy works.

People still use it.

The ratios are still the same.

Use it, don't use it, I don't care.

Move the fudge on, for Christs sake. I am tired of getting notifications, with people whining.

(trying for the 80th time to unsubscribe)

Don’t do it, but I get it.