Apple cider 3.0 - Back at it again..

[ivan-andreoli]

It's been years, but finally I'm at it again..
With more knowledge I started a batch of apple cider, but being a little rusty I feel the need, the need for some confirmation..

My recipe:
- 4 litres of store bought apple juice (from concentrate, and nothing else in it);
- 1/2 a packet of Safbrew S-33 beer yeast.

OG: 1.044

Fermentation started in a couple of hours from capping the carboy with an airlock, in a 28°C (82°-ish F) room. (I know, it's a little on the high side, but that's the average coolest spot in my house right now).

If it goes all the way dry I should expect a 5/6% ABV right?

Knowing that the yeast is labelled at 9.5% ABV, there's room for raising the alcohol if wanted..

But what if I wanted a sweet product (not carbonated), should I keep step-feeding apple juice until the yeast can't handle the alcohol %, and add some more after that?
Or do I need to use potassium sorbate + sodium metabisulfate to "sterilize" and put the yeast to "sleep"?
Or just plain and simple pasteurization?

Let me know what you think guys..

 

[CKuhns]

I personally prefer to sweeten to taste after fermentation is complete and pasteurize my cider "still".

 

[ivan-andreoli]

I personally prefer to sweeten to taste after fermentation is complete and pasteurize my cider "still".

That was my idea, maybe I explained myself in a bad way..
So, you would match the tollerance of your yeast, give or take, with sugars (apple juice, concentrate, whatever..)?

 

[CKuhns]

Sorry - Should have read your post a little better...

Yeast selection.
I want one that will get me to near completion in the conditions i am at. And for cider most yeasts will get you there without adding additional sugars.

Yeast selection for me really depends upon the flavor profile and conditions I am fermenting in. (After alcohol tolerance is met)

Examples - If fermenting fresh pressed apples at 50 Deg F then I will use something like Cote Des Blanc or D47, both ferment well at cool temperatures and provide a nice flavor (But take a long time). If using FAJC and fermenting at 65 Deg F then something like an ale yeast S04 or S05 that provides a bit of an ale like flavor as the FAJC is pretty bland but can be done in 8 - 10 days and if your not into ales can be covered with spices and or fruit.

Hope that helps

 

[Kees]

Adding apple juice won't increase the ABV unless you use concentrated apple juice. You can stop fermentation by adding calvados or brandy, the way port wine is made.

 

[mcgearybrewing]

5-6% should be close to correct for an ale yeast but what was the SG?

Question, why are you using a Belgian ale yeast?

Adding more fermentables while it’s fermenting won’t sweeten it, it’ll just keep producing alcohol until you stress the yeast to the point that die off.

Once the FG is around .990-1.004 you will add sorbate, this isn’t going to “sterilize” anything. It will inhibit fermentation. At that point you can add Apple juice to sweeten the cider.

 

[ebbelwoi]

I prefer to ferment straight apple juice (no preservatives) until dry,
then cold crash,
then rack to another container (to get as much of the yeast out as possible),
then stabilize (maybe that was the word you were reaching for?) with potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite,
then add apple juice or sugar to sweeten,
then force carbonate.

At such a high temperature, you might want to consider a saison yeast or a kveik yeast like Lallemand's Voss, assuming you prefer to use a dry yeast.

 

[ivan-andreoli]

...then stabilize (maybe that was the word you were reaching for?) with potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite,
then add apple juice or sugar to sweeten,
then force carbonate.

Stabilize, that's the correct term..
I was thinking that, because I'm not that hot with the pasteurization process..

 

[ivan-andreoli]

5-6% should be close to correct for an ale yeast but what was the SG?

The gravity was 1.044 before pitching the yeast, I didn't add anything else aside those 2 components..

Question, why are you using a Belgian ale yeast?

It was the one of 2 best options I had in the store I found.. I could've bought some wine yeast or some D47, but it wasn't convenient because of big package on the wine one (and maybe it was a not-so-good choice) and for the D47 I would have needed to buy multiple packages to just make sense of the shipping price (it was more than triple than the price of the single packet; and I believe it would have been a smart move, because of the posts I see around, but I still feel awkward around the whole process, and I didn't wanted to have some good yeast gone bad for not using it)

 

[ivan-andreoli]

Aaand it's probably stuck or something..
Still a little positive pressure on the airlock, but no bubbles rising from the bottom of the carboy..
I'll manage to take a reading in the next couple of days to check..

 

[ivan-andreoli]

Checking in after the reading..
So it's done fermenting, FG of 1.000 (1.002 max); no bubbles rising and no more positive pressure in the airlock after taking the reading..
Did a taste test, not being an expert in mouth flavour and feel, I found it dry, of course, no yeasty flavour and relatively low on ABV (like I wrote in my original post should be between 5% and 6%). Pretty bland for my taste (the juice straigh out of the bottle has that sweet, but not so much, and tart apple flavour with a little bit of astringency).
Still yeasty smell though (told by my g.f. because she's more nosey for that kind of stuff).

Did the reading yesterday and it was already starting to clear; today I could already see through the other side of the carboy and easily read the label of the bottle behind..

I would consider adding some fruits in second, for flavoring it a bit, just to experiment and see what can I do to improve the flavour. (Never truly done a true second fermentation)..

What you guys would suggest?

 

[CKuhns]

For Cider I add about 1 pound of fruit per gallon allowing the apple and fruit flavors to blend pretty well. If pits remove them, If Citrus remove the skin and they will pretty much give up all their flavor in 12 - 14 days. If seeds on the outside of the fruit like strawberries then 7-10 days as the seeds sometimes will impart some pretty strong flavors. I freeze them for at least a day before adding and no need to thaw just add them straight in. Freezing them helps break down the fruit to extract the flavor.

Consider adding some citric acid or a bit of lemon juice to taste and some vanilla or tannens something like oak before trying the fruit. These will help with the mouth feel and round out the flavor for you.

 

[ivan-andreoli]

Consider adding some citric acid or a bit of lemon juice to taste and some vanilla or tannens something like oak before trying the fruit. These will help with the mouth feel and round out the flavor for you.

I would definitely try some lemon juice (1 cup will suffice? Or more/less?), and maybe vanilla (I have Madagascar vanilla beans handy in a jar) how much you think of that (whole or splitted open in a hop-bag or something like that)?

 

[CKuhns]

Vanlla Beans - I just split them and drop them right in. You could sanitize a small mesh bag for ease of removal but not really necessary. I use about half a bean per gallon and allow it to go for 5 - 7 days.

Correction - I do not routinely add vanilla unless adding dark fruit or spices. (Sorry my post above was a bit misleading or confusing. I may have been drinking.)

In both cases Lemon juice and vanilla flavors are a bit subjective and how you perceive them could be different than how i do. For the acid / lemon juice until you get a sense of how it works for you I would add just a little at a time (an ounce or so in 4 litres) allowing some time between tasting to ensure you don't desensitize your pallet.

 

[ivan-andreoli]

Lucky for me, I had black berries in mind, so vanilla would be great..
I'll rack it and add small amounts of lemon juice until I find the right spot..

 

[ivan-andreoli]

In both cases Lemon juice and vanilla flavors are a bit subjective and how you perceive them could be different than how i do. For the acid / lemon juice until you get a sense of how it works for you I would add just a little at a time (an ounce or so in 4 litres) allowing some time between tasting to ensure you don't desensitize your pallet.

(Noob question)
After racking it and adding the lemon juice I have to let it sit for a few days right?
Or could I try to feel the difference right away?

 

[CKuhns]

If mixed well lemon juice should come through right away. Vanilla beans wil take a few to many days.

 

[ivan-andreoli]

For the lemon, an ounce was enough..
Now I've putted the vanilla bean inside.. I'll wait a little and check the flavour..