Apple Blueberry Cider - Brewdemon kit - fermentation question

[DougM1965]

This is my first batch ever.

So this has been fermenting for 5 days. Instructions say leaving for 7 days.

Does this look right?

 

[eliastheodosis]

This is my first batch ever

Cool! Welcome to the party

So this has been fermenting for 5 days. Instructions say leaving for 7 days.

Does this look right?

There's no way we will be able to tell you that from one pic but if you give us more info we can probably help more. When you say it's been fermenting can I ask what you mean? Did it have a krausen (bubbles/foam) at the top? Did the liquid get cloudy and churn around? Did the airlock bubble? None of those guarantee that the ferment is done, but they are good signs that the yeast is/was working.

It looks pretty calm right now though. If it was active and now it's looking like that then it's probably getting close to done. Fermentations are more complicated than just waiting X amount of days. Sometimes it happens quicker and sometimes it takes longer than the package might say. Leaving it sit for a little longer won't hurt but bottling it early could lead to overly carbonated bottles or, worse, bottles that get so carbonated they burst on you. It's safer to leave it sit a little longer to be totally sure.

Do you have any way to measure the gravity on this? The best way to ensure that the fermentation is happening, or that it's done, is to take those measurements. You'll get used to fermentations and get a feel for when they are working well, but it's always best to measure

If you can get us some answers here we can probably give you a little more guidance. Again, welcome and cheers!

 

[DougM1965]

The hydrometer I ordered arrives tomorrow.

But to answer your other questions, that is basically how it has looked all five days. No bubbles in the airlock. Only signs of anything's seems to be the condensation inside the container.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Hmm, okay I won't lie that's not a great sign. There's typically some sort of indication that fermentation is happening. I have never used the BrewDemon thing before and I don't know what yeast it comes with. Do they they give you an estimated original gravity and a target final gravity? If so then figure those out. The original gravity is probably going to be up near around 1.050 or so. Maybe a little higher. The target final gravity will be down around 1.005 or probably even lower depending on the yeast they gave you.

Here's what I would do in your case. Wait until you get the hydrometer and then pull a sample to check the gravity. Make sure you sanitize everything first and then take that sample.You probably have one of three situations on your hands and you need to do something different depending on which situation it is. Be ready to act. The gravity reading will tell you what to do.

1. It's totally fermented out. The gravity is near 1.005 or lower.
   
   1. In this case you should be ready and bottle it. If you can do this directly after you take the sample and get the reading then your cider will turn out better than if you wait. Congratulations. You have cider!
2. It hasn't fermented at all. The gravity is up near 1.050 or so.
   1. I'm betting on this one, unfortunately. In this case you need to have some more yeast ready to throw into it to see if you can get fermentation started. Again, do this as soon as possible after you take the sample and get the reading. If you have more cider yeast around then use that. If you can get a spare pack just in case then that's also great. If those aren't options then throw in some bread yeast if you have it. We are now kind of entering desperation mode to save the cider
3. It has partially fermented. The gravity is in the middle around like 1.025 or something.
   1. Probably the best, but least likely, option. If the gravity is somewhere in the middle then it might just be fermenting and you are not noticing. You could throw in more yeast but you could also chance it and wait a while in the hopes that it finishes fermenting. You'd wait and take more readings later to see if it keeps lowering. When it gets near the final gravity then you'd bottle.

Mostly, I would say don't stress too much. If this one doesn't work out then try again. It will get much easier as you figure things out. My guess is that the liquid was too hot when you threw in the yeast or maybe the yeast wasn't any good. Usually it's not too hard to get fermentation going, but sometimes crap just happens.

Good luck and let us know what happens or if you have any more questions!

 

[bernardsmith]

Hard to tell from the photo you attached but is the airlock suggesting that there is no CO2 coming up from inside the fermenter pushing that column of water up? In other words, is the column of water in the airlock the same height on both sides? If it is then either the fermentation has ended or if it has not, then there could be a poor seal and the CO2 is escaping through poor fittings between the vessel and the airlock or the vessel and the cap, and not bubbling up through the airlock
Is that thermometer on the side of the fermenter suggesting that the temperature is too cold at 60 F . Not sure what I am seeing but if that is what it is indicating then that may also be suggesting that there has been no activity in the fermenter. And while I tend to use food grade buckets loosely covered with cloth as my fermenter, I guess for novice wine makers, it may be better to use glass carboys with bungs and airlocks that you can see whether there is an active fermentation taking place. Opaque vessels make look lovely in your wine room but this vessel is not giving you any positive indication of any activity that may be going on inside...

 

[DougM1965]

So my hydrometer arrived today, but it is broken in half. New one on the way.

But there is now krausen (bubbles/foam) on top of the liquid.

And to answer other questions, temperature strip is showing around 68 F.

Fermenter is not opaque, just not completely clear.

 

[eliastheodosis]

Well, wow for the krausen. At day 6... That's quite a while to get started but all you can really do now is wait and see how it turns out.

No reason I can see to take a reading while it's still fermenting. Wait for the new hydrometer to get here and then take a reading once it quiets down. I would start the 7 day clock over from today or, maybe, yesterday. After it settles down let it go a day or so at least before taking a reading. Let us know what happens!

 

[amber-ale]

meads are often gentler fermenters. you may not see the action unless you look for tiny bubbles
7 days is not long enough, forget about it for another week or three.
then measure
yeast needs time to produce alcohol, but also time to clean up some harsh tasting chemicals. so leave it longer.
rack it off the glunk if it isn't finished by a month

 

[DougM1965]

Time for the next dumb question...cider is now in 22 oz plastic bottles. I added the amount of sugar the kit recommended to each bottle. After one day in the bottles, they already seem pretty hard. How long should I wait before stove top pasteurization process?

 

[eliastheodosis]

bottling it early could lead to overly carbonated bottles or, worse, bottles that get so carbonated they burst on you.

Okay, I'll give a quick answer because I think this one is probably pretty urgent. I, personally, think you are now at this point ^^^

If they are already bottled, it's been a day since bottling, and they are as hard as say...a coke bottle then I would think they are going to pop on you. I hesitate to advise you to heat these up but if you do try to do that then I very seriously recommend some safety glasses If you wait another day then it's possible they are going to start literally exploding on you.

Maybe they are carbed just fine right now and pasteurization will be okay. Maybe they are already over-carbed and you are just going to literally cook that whole situation. No bueno, dude. If you choose not to pasteurize now then at least put them in something waterproof and somewhat blast-proof (I am not joking).

Also, they are in plastic bottles. If they are as hard as a coke bottle then take a risk and open one up. If it gushes like a volcano then they are already over-carbed. Open and dump them before they get worse and explode. If they are at the right level of carbonation then pasteurize.

I hope for your sake I'm wrong. Honestly, @amber-ale above is right though. It's much better to wait a couple weeks than bottle early...

Good luck

 

[DougM1965]

So apparently reading comprehension and patience are not in my strong suit.

I definitely bottled way too soon and had to empty all of them.

But the good news is that I will have learned from my mistakes and I get to start another cider from a recipe instead of the kit I was supplied.

Thanks to everyone for helping out the newbie.

 

[eliastheodosis]

I definitely bottled way too soon and had to empty all of them.

I'm actually pretty relieved that it came to a conclusion and they are emptied. We've all had to dump batches before so don't be worried about that. It's a learning process.

But the good news is that I will have learned from my mistakes and I get to start another cider from a recipe instead of the kit I was supplied.

That's a fantastic attitude! This can be a really fun hobby and when you get it right it's very rewarding. You'll get better at it with practice. Many of the details that seem hard now will become second nature over time.

You should definitely post again with a new thread when you do the next batch. It's not always easy to notice a post so feel free to tag me if you are needing advice. I'm not the most experienced on this forum but I've brewed ciders, meads, beer, and just about everything in between. I like seeing people get into the hobby and I'm happy to help!

 

[Chalkyt]

Oh dear, yet another "expert" chiming in... me! Like others I have been following your issues with some interest. We have all been in that situation at some time or another.

All of the above is great advice so I am just going to throw in a bit of information about heat pasteurising so that you don't get to this point next time and have another drama. Rather than waffle-on here, for the long version have a look at my post of 1 Feb 2021 (use the search option on the top right-hand corner). You need to be aware of the following (and the hydrometer is your "best friend").

- For carbonation, you need to allow about 2 gravity points per volume of CO2. So, bottle at around SG 1.005 for something like 2.0 - 2.5 volumes which is where most people aim. Measure the SG rather than just rely on time since as suggested above, fermentation proceeds at different rates depending on type of yeast, temperature etc, etc.

- Be aware of the pressure that can build up in sealed bottles. Andrew Lea has an excellent "Carbonation Table" which should pop up if you Google it. The table shows potential bottle pressure at different temperatures for different levels of carbonation.

- A problem with the "squeeze" method of monitoring CO2 pressure is that hard is hard, and twice the pressure is still hard. I use a pressure gauge fitted to a Grolsch bottle flip-top and work with around 2 volumes of CO2 (about 30 -40 psi) and pasteurising temperature of 65C. As a general rule, putting 20C bottles in a 70C waterbath for 10 minutes is more than enough for effective pasteurisation. It takes 10 minutes for the bottle temperature to reach 65C, then after taking them out, another 10 minutes to cool down to the point where pasteurisation no longer takes place.

- Keep carbonation and pasteurising temperature as low as you can. 2.5 volumes of CO2 and 65C pasteurising temperature will result in over 100psi of pressure in the bottle. At this pressure, the bottom of plastic bottles can bulge out allowing them to fall over (in the hot waterbath) causing all sorts of retrieval issues. (Don't ask how I know!). FYI, glass bottles are generally intended to withstand up to 200psi, but I have had a couple of bottle bombs in the past when I didn't properly monitor the carbonation level pressure before I put the bottles in the hot water bath.

- Avoid heat pasteurising flip-top bottles as the seals will leak at around 80psi and lose carbonation (or remove the bottles as soon as the seals start to leak ie give off bubbles).

- If you want to retain some sweetness, bottle at around SG 1.010 and pasteurise at 1.005 (or when the squeeze test just reaches "hard").

Have fun... on to the next adventure.