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degivens

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Id agree some of their beers I might be able to convince myself a straight 1318 profile. Others though, I can’t.

DDH Dunley Place comes to mind as one that was super peach to me. Pretty much reeked of some conan — and I agree I can’t figure out how the hell to pull peach out of conan consistently.
 

skibb

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I had some (pretty damn tasty) San Saba. Mouthfeel was damn near diabetic - so i degassed a sample and ran it through a density meter:

FG: 1.055
...so that means OG is something like 1.163 if it truly is 15% abv. Just nuts!
 
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TheHairyHop

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I had some (pretty damn tasty) San Saba. Mouthfeel was damn near diabetic - so i degassed a sample and ran it through a density meter:

FG: 1.055
...so that means OG is something like 1.163 if it truly is 15% abv. Just nuts!
I never got to take FG or pH readings of their beer, which is a shame. I'm not sure if San Saba would be a good representative of their IPAs, but it's certainly possible that they are inflating their FG to increase mouthfeel. I've made a few IPAs with green apple puree (trying to see what Tired Hands is up to) and the FG has been consistently ~1.03. Interestingly enough, the first thing people say is "huh... it's more full or thick than normal."
 

skibb

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So Beer and Brewing has a podcast with them (Episode 52) - not sure if it has been mentioned.

They also just put out a video for subscribers, where Andrew from Aslin describes their processes for fruit forward IPAs and Sours.
Some info from there:

They are big fans of Citra and WP it at 180F. They dry hop for 72 hours after a soft crash at 50F (to harvest yeast). They rouse their DH once a day with CO2 from the bottom/racking arm of the FV for 30-60 seconds.

Their House yeast is a Vermont Ale strain - they apparently take it waaaaaaaay out (100+ generations) - they say after the first 10-20 generations it starts to hit its stride. They stress the yeast by underpitching and fermenting on the cooler side (62-64F) for first 3 days - this is to enhance the peach/stone fruit ester quality of the yeast. After that they let it rise up for diacetyl rest and to fully attenuate.

They add fruit with 20% remaining in fermentation. Also mention they like using salt in all their fruited beers.

They use lacto plantarum for kettle sours.

Water chemistry: Mash pH target 5.25-5.35. Have been known to use CaCl, Gypsum, and KaCl. 45 minutes to Mash in, and will only mash for 15 minutes before lautering.

Hope some of this info helps!
 
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TheHairyHop

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So Beer and Brewing has a podcast with them (Episode 52) - not sure if it has been mentioned.

They also just put out a video for subscribers, where Andrew from Aslin describes their processes for fruit forward IPAs and Sours.
Some info from there:

They are big fans of Citra and WP it at 180F. They dry hop for 72 hours after a soft crash at 50F (to harvest yeast). They rouse their DH once a day with CO2 from the bottom/racking arm of the FV for 30-60 seconds.

Their House yeast is a Vermont Ale strain - they apparently take it waaaaaaaay out (100+ generations) - they say after the first 10-20 generations it starts to hit its stride. They stress the yeast by underpitching and fermenting on the cooler side (62-64F) for first 3 days - this is to enhance the peach/stone fruit ester quality of the yeast. After that they let it rise up for diacetyl rest and to fully attenuate.

They add fruit with 20% remaining in fermentation. Also mention they like using salt in all their fruited beers.

They use lacto plantarum for kettle sours.

Water chemistry: Mash pH target 5.25-5.35. Have been known to use CaCl, Gypsum, and KaCl. 45 minutes to Mash in, and will only mash for 15 minutes before lautering.

Hope some of this info helps!
oh, hey! Thanks for the info. I'll have to look into all of it. Interesting to hear about the yeast. I know that they had been pretty tight lipped when they first started.
 

skibb

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oh, hey! Thanks for the info. I'll have to look into all of it. Interesting to hear about the yeast. I know that they had been pretty tight lipped when they first started.
Yeah I'm honestly not sure how believable it is - going that far out with zero contamination is pretty remarkable for a brewery their size. Also, I think I recall the same yeast handling practices (pitch rate and cooler start) by The Alchemist and their IPAs are barely hazy. I'm not sure I believe some just wheat/oats will give you the amount of haze Aslin has - I've seen some turbid ass beer with just 2-row... Just not sure how all the things add up.
 

Dgallo

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I used to be a big fan but had a bunch of their beers this month and they went hugely downhill. Their ipas have extreme hop burn and their big stouts taste like unfermented wort. They were far better before they expanded and tried to keep up with the market demands. They pump out a lot of duds now, unfortunately
 

Dgallo

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I had some (pretty damn tasty) San Saba. Mouthfeel was damn near diabetic - so i degassed a sample and ran it through a density meter:

FG: 1.055
...so that means OG is something like 1.163 if it truly is 15% abv. Just nuts!
Don’t forget the lactose. 25 gu points of the fg could easily have come from lactose so it could have been 1.145 - 1.030 And then bumped up with lactose. Being 14.8% and just round up at that point. Which is completely plausible at 78-79% attenuation
 
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TheHairyHop

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I used to be a big fan but had a bunch of their beers this month and they went hugely downhill. Their ipas have extreme hop burn and their big stouts taste like unfermented wort. They were far better before they expanded and tried to keep up with the market demands. They pump out a lot of duds now, unfortunately
That's a bummer. Cortez and His Men from their original location blew my friggin' mind
 
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TheHairyHop

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Yeah I'm honestly not sure how believable it is - going that far out with zero contamination is pretty remarkable for a brewery their size. Also, I think I recall the same yeast handling practices (pitch rate and cooler start) by The Alchemist and their IPAs are barely hazy. I'm not sure I believe some just wheat/oats will give you the amount of haze Aslin has - I've seen some turbid ass beer with just 2-row... Just not sure how all the things add up.
Haze is mostly just dry hopping massively at the right time. Of course, some breweries go in weird directions with it, and you get straight murky stew. That's probably a combo of pushing the beer out quickly, high protein grist, and maybe even some finely milled grain going in. Flour in the boil is not unheard of, and even Tired Hands does green apple puree, which can get pretty turbid
 

Dgallo

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Haze is mostly just dry hopping massively at the right time. Of course, some breweries go in weird directions with it, and you get straight murky stew. That's probably a combo of pushing the beer out quickly, high protein grist, and maybe even some finely milled grain going in. Flour in the boil is not unheard of, and even Tired Hands does green apple puree, which can get pretty turbid
If breweries are doing either of those things. Do not follow their practices.

This is the thread you want to follow of you’re trying to make New England ipas American IPA - "Northeast" style IPA
 
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TheHairyHop

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If breweries are doing either of those things. Do not follow their practices.

This is the thread you want to follow of you’re trying to make New England ipas American IPA - "Northeast" style IPA
I don't understand what you're trying to say. I would have thought that I prefaced the thick haze "methods" with enough negative connotation to indicate that I don't do that. Also, if you're specifically suggesting to not do what Tired Hands does, I kind of don't know what to think of that. They consistently produce fantastic beer.
Haze is just polyphenols binding with proteins to stay in suspension. I think it's kind of silly to try to actually aim for it, but it's also equally silly to fight it. Large amounts of dry hops will give it to you 9/10 times.
 

Dgallo

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I don't understand what you're trying to say. I would have thought that I prefaced the thick haze "methods" with enough negative connotation to indicate that I don't do that. Also, if you're specifically suggesting to not do what Tired Hands does, I kind of don't know what to think of that. They consistently produce fantastic beer.
Haze is just polyphenols binding with proteins to stay in suspension. I think it's kind of silly to try to actually aim for it, but it's also equally silly to fight it. Large amounts of dry hops will give it to you 9/10 times.
Yes I was reiterating and absolutely suggesting to not use apple puree or flour in your beer—for you or anyone else who is following or happens to read this thread. It was stated a long long time ago that Tired hands used apple purée in specifically milkshake ipas and if true, I’m sure they have changed this process since.

also tired hands stouts are amazing, their ipas are not on the same level as EQ, OH, TH, HF, HB, Trillium, Monkish, Electric, and many more.You are looking to clone a hazy beer by aslin who make very murky/turbid ipas and I am providing you with the thread on HBT that is by far the most comprehensive resource of scientific and anecdotal best practices that is out right now to produce this style. That’s where I am getting at. There are also many people who follow the thread from that area who may have some insider knowledge of any special processes or ingredients that Aslin uses. I was merely offering support. Not trying to offend you
 
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AkTom

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Not to butt in... but excuse me. Experimental Brewing had a podcast where low temp dry hopping added great flavor and aroma. Carry on.
Cheers
 
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TheHairyHop

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Not to butt in... but excuse me. Experimental Brewing had a podcast where low temp dry hopping added great flavor and aroma. Carry on.
Cheers
Yea, I think that Scott Janish's book also covers this. If it doesn't, I guess that I don't recall where I heard it. I tend to dry hop on the colder side (50), but it can be a bit tricky with O2 mitigation if you get really cold. I mean, I'm sure some people have the ability, but I primarily use active yeast to prevent oxidation, and they can get a bit sluggish when too cold. I happen to have two IPAs that I'll be dry hopping around 40, so I'll be interested to see if there's much of a difference
 

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I've been dry hopping at 50 for about 6 months now and I don't think I will ever go back. Cool enuf to flocc out the yeast and get a thick slurry, warm enough to extract the oils, and we tend not to see the amount of hop burn or duration in our IPAs.
 

dirty_martini

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I used to be a big fan but had a bunch of their beers this month and they went hugely downhill. Their ipas have extreme hop burn and their big stouts taste like unfermented wort. They were far better before they expanded and tried to keep up with the market demands. They pump out a lot of duds now, unfortunately
funny you say this as them going downhill. I haven’t lived in DC for 2.5 years. I lived right by Nats stadium when they did the beer garden next door. Their IPAs ALWAYSSSSSSSS had too much hop burn. That was literally the only thing I used to describe their beers. When I drove out to VA I just skipped them and went to Ocelot and Solace. When I moved to Houston and tried Spindletap, I started calling them the Aslin of the South simply because every hazy IPA burned for 6-8 weeks before they were drinkable, yet like Aslin had all the “hype”
 

Dgallo

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funny you say this as them going downhill. I haven’t lived in DC for 2.5 years.I loved right by Nats stadium when they did the beer garden next door. Their IPAs ALWAYSSSSSSSS had too much hop burn. That was literally the only thing I used to describe their beers. When I drove out to VA I just skipped them and went to Ocelot and Solace. When I moved to Houston and tried Spindletap, I started calling them the Aslin of the South simply because every hazy IPA burned for 6-8 weeks before they were drinkable, yet like Aslin had all the “hype”
To be honestly, I haven’t had them up until this month(they have been distributed in ny now) since maybe 2017-2018. The beers I did have previously were from trades so they already had age to them so it’s certainly possible I just got lucky early on. But I can’t lie, I had to drain pour two of the ipas I got from them this month because all they had was burn, the others are in the back of the fridge right above the compressor to try to condition them. They definitely dryhop heavy during fermentation or not low enough. No way you can get that much burn any other way, unless you literally transferring trub through the canner
 

dirty_martini

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I don't understand what you're trying to say. I would have thought that I prefaced the thick haze "methods" with enough negative connotation to indicate that I don't do that. Also, if you're specifically suggesting to not do what Tired Hands does, I kind of don't know what to think of that. They consistently produce fantastic beer.
Haze is just polyphenols binding with proteins to stay in suspension. I think it's kind of silly to try to actually aim for it, but it's also equally silly to fight it. Large amounts of dry hops will give it to you 9/10 times.
let’s dispel some of these bad brewing practices rumors that for some reason years later are sticking around

-don’t use flour. It actually causes haze to drop out because flour particles are too big and heavy.
-no purée. You don’t need it for haze. If you want to make a sour ipa, milkshake, whatever then sure add purée...during fermentation.

haze is a couple things all working together. Yeast choice. It’s not low floccing yeast like the long rumor. London III, conan, s-04, etc are all medium to high floccing yeast. Yeasts that have biotransformative properties. Hop rate. Big hop whirlpools plus high polyphenol hops in dry hopping (especially during fermentation for biotransformation). High protein malt/adjuncts. Oats, wheat, flaked grains, generally around 15-20% of the malt bill. Hop choice. Some hops are known for adding hop haze. Especially Southern Hemisphere hops like galaxy, Vic secret, enigma, etc.

if you use one of those English biotransformative yeast with a high protein grist and add a **** ton of powerful hops like citra/mosaic/galaxy/etc and don’t fine it, you can get the full murk opaque beer. It’s really not rocket science. Most of these breweries are brewing beers that are basically the same beers with minor tweaks for their systems and flavor profile.
 

dirty_martini

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To be honestly, I haven’t had them up until this month(they have been distributed in ny now) since maybe 2017-2018. The beers I did have previously were from trades so they already had age to them so it’s certainly possible I just got lucky early on. But I can’t lie, I had to drain pour two of the ipas I got from them this month because all they had was burn, the others are in the back of the fridge right above the compressor to try to condition them. They definitely dryhop heavy during fermentation or not low enough. No way you can get that much burn any other way, unless you literally transferring trub through the canner
they churn out a ton of beers. Even before they move facilities, they were releasing 3-4 beers a week. They all have huge hop rates...I’d say minimum 4-5#bbl dry hop and likely upwards of 10# when they get to their triples. The fact they release so many tells me they aren’t taking much time to condition them either. Using the greenness to mean “fresh” when it’s really overhopped and underconditioned. I’ve never gotten the chunky beers from them so I’m sure it’s not trub and yeast. Just young beer
 

dirty_martini

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I've been dry hopping at 50 for about 6 months now and I don't think I will ever go back. Cool enuf to flocc out the yeast and get a thick slurry, warm enough to extract the oils, and we tend not to see the amount of hop burn or duration in our IPAs.
I dry hop at 55 for only 2-3 days and always have plenty of flavor and aroma. And I always dry hop after fermentation has been done and I’ve dropped the yeast. I’ve also never had an issue with hop creep with the cooler dry hop.
 

Dgallo

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they churn out a ton of beers. Even before they move facilities, they were releasing 3-4 beers a week. They all have huge hop rates...I’d say minimum 4-5#bbl dry hop and likely upwards of 10# when they get to their triples. The fact they release so many tells me they aren’t taking much time to condition them either. Using the greenness to mean “fresh” when it’s really overhopped and underconditioned. I’ve never gotten the chunky beers from them so I’m sure it’s not trub and yeast. Just young beer
I dryhop at 4lb barrel and I have zero hop burn. Last beer was with Galaxy and Nelson and still no hopburn, so it’s process more than ingredients, as @skibb suggested.

I’d honestly be surprised in their triples if they use 10. I’d call 7lb/bbl the extreme maximum of actual t90/t45 pellets. Otherwise the 30% in volume loss wouldn’t make the beer profitable. If they are claiming higher than that it’s probably with hop products, just as other half does. However that’s Exactly why I’m still suggesting to visit the NE ipa thread on here. Many knowledgeable Homebrewers in that thread. Either way, cheers!
E8EAC0F7-BC10-43DB-BB44-E3436CD4F386.jpeg
 
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TheHairyHop

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funny you say this as them going downhill. I haven’t lived in DC for 2.5 years. I lived right by Nats stadium when they did the beer garden next door. Their IPAs ALWAYSSSSSSSS had too much hop burn. That was literally the only thing I used to describe their beers. When I drove out to VA I just skipped them and went to Ocelot and Solace. When I moved to Houston and tried Spindletap, I started calling them the Aslin of the South simply because every hazy IPA burned for 6-8 weeks before they were drinkable, yet like Aslin had all the “hype”
I must have caught them in the sweet spot. Fortunately, I never got hop burn from any of their releases. I think that some of these posts are missing something here. There's no need to go over the basics (I guess it depends on your definition) of brewing a NEIPA. Aslin was/are doing something specific to their IPAs to get the flavor profile that I was tasting. That's what I'm trying to achieve. I would assume it's most likely a specific yeast choice, but at this point, who knows. 100+ generations of vermont ale sounds fishy to me, but there could be some truth to it.
 

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I dryhop at 4lb barrel and I have zero hop burn. Last beer was with Galaxy and Nelson and still no hopburn, so it’s process more than ingredients, as @skibb suggested.

I’d honestly be surprised in their triples if they use 10. I’d call 7lb/bbl the extreme maximum of actual t90/t45 pellets. Otherwise the 30% in volume loss wouldn’t make the beer profitable. If they are claiming higher than that it’s probably with hop products, just as other half does. However that’s Exactly why I’m still suggesting to visit the NE ipa thread on here. Many knowledgeable Homebrewers in that thread. Either way, cheers! View attachment 712819
I know a couple of brewers down here in Texas that were taking it to the 10#/bbl volume. Hop burn galore and of course even in low cost rural Texas they were charging $24-26/4pk. Bonkers.

I never go above 3# for anything below 8%, maybe up to 4# on doubles but I rarely brew those anyway. If I brew a hoppy beer over 7%, it was a special request. Generally the burn is the combo of huge hops and same day canning. At the brewery I work, they won’t can if any burn is still there, and usually even with a hop notorious for it like galaxy, an extra day or two in the bright tank and it’s fine. Talk to most brewers and they will say the beer hits its stride after 2-3 weeks in the can. The beers just need some time to come together and really homogenize and integrate. Too many breweries are chasing that dollar so they pump them out so quick the beers don’t have a chance to lose that greenness before packaging
 

dirty_martini

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I must have caught them in the sweet spot. Fortunately, I never got hop burn from any of their releases. I think that some of these posts are missing something here. There's no need to go over the basics (I guess it depends on your definition) of brewing a NEIPA. Aslin was/are doing something specific to their IPAs to get the flavor profile that I was tasting. That's what I'm trying to achieve. I would assume it's most likely a specific yeast choice, but at this point, who knows. 100+ generations of vermont ale sounds fishy to me, but there could be some truth to it.
100 generations sounds fishy to anyone. Sounds like the statement of someone trying to make themselves sound more special than they are...and honestly between podcasts I’ve heard and rumors about ownership, they’ve always come off a bit arrogant so I’m not surprised. If anything I could imagine they work with one of the local yeast banks to culture the yeast from a specific generation they like. I know another VA/DC area brewer that has a specific generation of a couple yeasts that their yeast provider builds up. The benefits of professional volumes.
 

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100 generations sounds fishy to anyone. Sounds like the statement of someone trying to make themselves sound more special than they are...and honestly between podcasts I’ve heard and rumors about ownership, they’ve always come off a bit arrogant so I’m not surprised. If anything I could imagine they work with one of the local yeast banks to culture the yeast from a specific generation they like. I know another VA/DC area brewer that has a specific generation of a couple yeasts that their yeast provider builds up. The benefits of professional volumes.
This isn't a brewery I want to carry water for but they may be telling the truth about the yeast. Some strains hold up better to repeat pitching better than others. It's not uncommon for breweries using English strains (e.g. WY1318/London Ale III) for dozens of generations, especially if they are top cropping and getting really healthy yeast every time. A lot of these haze factories are putting out new IPAs or new batches of recipes several times per week which means 1-3 generations in a week. They may well be top cropping from one batch to the next or running a bioreactor constantly building new pitches. If you dump two beers per week that could be 100 generations in one year.

To whatever extent the yeast is evolving in an undesirable way, a lot of that is going to be covered up by massive amounts of hops and the push to drink these beers fresh where fermentation characteristics are more likely to be covered up by hops. One of the problems you get with yeast mutation can be poor flocculation which would be helpful with creating haze in these beers.
 

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Looking back on an old instagram post of mine, when I used to bike out to their orig Herndon location (and could actually pull up a stool there), my 4 fav's were: 2x Orange Starfish, Laser Raptors, Bringing Sexy Back, and Stellar Parallax. And what's funny to me is, even 5 years later, those original recipes are still my fav's. Some of their more recent ones they put out are just... too much. IMHO, these days it seems they're pushing the limits of what's enjoyable in an IPA, just because that's become their "thing". The more IBU, the more ABV, the better. And for me, they lost sight of the subtly of their craft. For me, some of the other breweries mentioned above are better because of those subtle nuances of their beer. It's not just a punch in the face, you can actually distinguish subtle flavors. And to me, that's what sets TH, Trillium, Bissell, Triple Crossing, Veil and others apart. Although in all fairness, they're still the best here in NoVa(aside from maybe a few of Ocelot's). So I'm not complaining or bashing, just thought it was an interesting observation on their flagship beers vs their more recent concoctions.
 

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No way you can get that much burn any other way, unless you literally transferring trub through the canner
They have more sediment than any beer I have ever had. Not even my first bottled beers had this much.
 

Dgallo

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Just saw this posted in one of the beer groups I’m part of..... yes tht came out of the can. Well had to be squeezed out.
9C4763F0-EAE7-4ED9-BED8-A78A7D11D4AE.png
 

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@TheHairyHop Don't let the old-fart stick-in-the-muds get to you LOL. I say that as an old-fart stick-in-the-mud who doesn't particularly enjoy the NEIPAs and hazy IPAs (and don't get me started on pastry stouts or fruited kettle sours). I am definitely old school in my personal brewing and preference for dry and bitter IPAs. That being said, I can appreciate NEIPAs (I especially like it when I come across one that has that velvet, soft, rounded malt character) and there is an entire generation of people who love them. It wasn't that long ago that traditionalists were complaining about the IBU bomb IPAs (that I love). To each their own - you are in good company in loving this style and glad you found a local brewery that makes them the way you like.
 
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TheHairyHop

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Looking back on an old instagram post of mine, when I used to bike out to their orig Herndon location (and could actually pull up a stool there), my 4 fav's were: 2x Orange Starfish, Laser Raptors, Bringing Sexy Back, and Stellar Parallax. And what's funny to me is, even 5 years later, those original recipes are still my fav's. Some of their more recent ones they put out are just... too much. IMHO, these days it seems they're pushing the limits of what's enjoyable in an IPA, just because that's become their "thing". The more IBU, the more ABV, the better. And for me, they lost sight of the subtly of their craft. For me, some of the other breweries mentioned above are better because of those subtle nuances of their beer. It's not just a punch in the face, you can actually distinguish subtle flavors. And to me, that's what sets TH, Trillium, Bissell, Triple Crossing, Veil and others apart. Although in all fairness, they're still the best here in NoVa(aside from maybe a few of Ocelot's). So I'm not complaining or bashing, just thought it was an interesting observation on their flagship beers vs their more recent concoctions.
Sitting at that bar and having Laser Raptors and BSB was just a good time. I had been hesitant to try them out, because about 1/3 reviews was complaining about yeast sludge or hop burn, but I never got anything except great IPAs. I think that, a lot of the time, people can hope that there's just one trick that gets something to attain a particularly good status. However, it's often a bunch of little things, skill, and good ingredients/materials. BSB is just straight mosaic, if I recall. So, maybe I'll just go with VT yeast, 100% mosaic, and a lot of the tricks I've learned to make a decent IPA. It'll probably never taste the same to me, but, since I'm in CO and Aslin seems to be spotty atm, I might be stuck with just the experience of my memories
 
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TheHairyHop

TheHairyHop

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@TheHairyHop Don't let the old-fart stick-in-the-muds get to you LOL. I say that as an old-fart stick-in-the-mud who doesn't particularly enjoy the NEIPAs and hazy IPAs (and don't get me started on pastry stouts or fruited kettle sours). I am definitely old school in my personal brewing and preference for dry and bitter IPAs. That being said, I can appreciate NEIPAs (I especially like it when I come across one that has that velvet, soft, rounded malt character) and there is an entire generation of people who love them. It wasn't that long ago that traditionalists were complaining about the IBU bomb IPAs (that I love). To each their own - you are in good company in loving this style and glad you found a local brewery that makes them the way you like.
Aha, I appreciate the sentiments. For better or worse, I've grown a bit accustomed to experiencing more opinions than on topic advice at times
 
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