anyone done a brew in a bag

[ThePonchoKid]

1 min boil brew?

I'm temped to try this.

How much water would I need for 10lbs of grain at 5.25 gal after a 1 min boil? 5.6 gal?

 

[ajf]

If you are going to boil for just 1 minutes, how are you going to get your hot break to precipitate, and where are you going to get you hop bitterness from?

-a.

 

[ThePonchoKid]

If you are going to boil for just 1 minutes, how are you going to get your hot break to precipitate, and where are you going to get you hop bitterness from?

-a.

dump all the hops in in one go. can easily get 30ibu with 3-4oz high aa% hop pellets

 

[Yooper]

If you are going to boil for just 1 minutes, how are you going to get your hot break to precipitate, and where are you going to get you hop bitterness from?

-a.

That, and what about boiling off of the DMS precursors?

 

[ThePonchoKid]

That, and what about boiling off of the DMS precursors?

What are those?

I was making yogurt today and that's what made me think about the 1 min boil. You only need to make the milk reach a boil before cooling it and adding your cultures. So if not 1 min, what's the shortest boil time you can possibly do?

 

[CalmNcents]

I'd do a one hour mash at a temp that suits the beer style, followed by one hour boil or 90 minutes for wheat. The water volume depends on your equipment loss and method of removing water from grain bag. I use the drip method, some will twist and squeeze the bag. I leave about .4 to .5 gal in the bag, I fear squeezing, that's just my way. If you tend to boil off 1.5 gallons in an hour you will need to add that to the pre boil volume. For me, that means .5 gal for grain loss & 1.5 gal evap loss in an hour, plus desired post boil volume 5.5 gal. So I would mash with 7.5 gallons for a non wheat beer. Keep the grain bag off the kettle base. You don't want a melted or burned sack. That's good advice for anytime. Enjoy, let me know how it turns out.

 

[ajf]

dump all the hops in in one go. can easily get 30ibu with 3-4oz high aa% hop pellets

According to Promash, using 6 lbs US pale malt for a 5g batch, you would need 9.75 oz of 15%AA pellet hops to achieve 30 IBU with a 1 minute boil. Increase the malt to get an OG > 1.032, and you would need even more hops.

That, and what about boiling off of the DMS precursors?

Agreed, and there are probably many other reasons for not doing it, that neither of us have thought about.

-a.

 

[ThePonchoKid]

That's a lot of hops

 

[Leithoa]

For 10 lbs of grain and a desired batch size of 5.25 gallons you'd need:
Batch volume * (1 + grain absorption constant ) = 5.25*(1+0.2) = 6.3 gallons. Or 25.2 quarts.
You're going to want to split that up so you don't mash too thin. Most people recommend 1.25-2 quarts of water per pound of grain. So: 1.5 quarts/lb * 10lbs. = 15 quarts of mash water.
Then your sparge volume is: (batch size + loss) - Mash volume = (25.2 + your system loss) - 15 = 10.2 quarts = 2.6 gallons.

Like others have said, getting hop bitterness is going to be difficult since even if you can extract the correct compounds they won't have enough time to undergo the reactions that give you the smooth bitterness you want. I'm sure you could find already isomerized hop oils online somewhere but it won't be the same thing. If you're looking to cut down your brew day that bad you can buy pre-bittered liquid malt extract, but it's not known for its superior flavor profile.
The shortest boil I've done was a 40 minute APA, it was good but it lacked the maltiness I was after that comes from some of the sugars getting caramelized in the boil. You could probably get away with a 20-30 minute boil if you used pre-bittered/hopped liquid extract and then added your own flavor hops in the remaining time. I doubt you'd win ribbons with it but it wouldn't be bad by any means. Keep in mind the long boil is there for a number of reasons: Sanitization, hop oil isomerization, protein denaturing, sugar caramelization, etc. Unfortunately you can only cut so much time off of the brewing process.

DMS is an undesired flavor compound that tastes like corn. The chemicals needed to create it are boiled off during the 60-90 minute boil process. You can read more here. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Dimethyl_sulfides

 

[Yooper]

Agreed, and there are probably many other reasons for not doing it, that neither of us have thought about.

-a.

Probably because there are about 100 reasons to not do this, and only one to do it. To save time. If saving 59 minutes is so crucial, then using six times as many hops might be worth it if you could find a way to boil off the DMS precursors and get a good hot break while doing the 1 minute boil. I assume you'd kill the lactobacillus on the grain with a 1 minute boil.

Bringing it to a boil would take the same amount of time, cooling the wort would take the same amount of time, and so would everything else. The only time savings would be the 59 minutes of the boil. If hops are selling for $3/ounce, it would only cost $43 more in hops.

What? No takers?

 

[jmtwo]

And making yogurt is not the same thing as brewing beer.

 

[ThePonchoKid]

Looks like a one minute boil might be alright for a lager style beer. Or even 5 minutes to get a little more hop bitterness. According to beer calculus each minute between 1 and 5 shows an exponential difference in ibus. Near ice age lagering should help put out some proteins over a few months

 

[Yooper]

Looks like a one minute boil might be alright for a lager style beer. Or even 5 minutes to get a little more hop bitterness. According to beer calculus each minute between 1 and 5 shows an exponential difference in ibus. Near ice age lagering should help put out some proteins over a few months

Sounds like you've got it all figured out. I'm no expert, but I don't think it'll boil off the DMS precursors (for a lager you'd want a 90 minute boil or longer for pilsner malt), or give you proper hops utilization, but you should definitely try it since you've got it all figured out. Saving 55 minutes of time would be a huge benefit, even if it's a DMS loaded mess.

 

[ThePonchoKid]

Who said that I'm trying to save time?

 

[Yooper]

Who said that I'm trying to save time?

Then what is the point? Saving propane? I don't understand.

 

[ThePonchoKid]

Just trying to get a fresher more raw taste.

 

[Yooper]

Just trying to get a fresher more raw taste.

Well, if you've a mind to to it, then you'll do it.

You've been told by experienced brewers that you'll need to worry about DMS precursors.

Hops utilization and flavor is a huge issue. Hops will have a ton of flavor at 5 minutes, and they don't at 60 minutes, so that will totally change the picture of the hops bittering, flavor, and aroma.

But if that stuff doesn't concern you, and you're totally comfortable with doing it, then who are we to stop you?

 

[beaksnbeer]

Just trying to get a fresher more raw taste.

Huh?

 

[ThePonchoKid]

I was asking if anyone has done it.

 

[Yooper]

I was asking if anyone has done it.

I'd hazard a guess to say probably not.

Most of us care about hot break, DMS precursors, and hops flavor in the finished beer.

So, no, I'd say any of us probably wouldn't even consider it. I'm done here.

 

[madchemist83]

If u trying to get fresher and more raw taste why dont just chew on some grains and hops ? Just chase it with a shot of vodka and u good to go .. Making yogurt or something ...

 

[BrewKnurd]

I was asking if anyone has done it.

I sure haven't. For all the reasons listed in previous posts. I think something like a 30 minute boil could be viable, as long as there's no pilsner malt. But I don't have enough interest in saving that time to give it a whirl.

 

[ThePonchoKid]

Is this where I am supposed to feel meek and inferior now?

 

[Yooper]

Is this where I am supposed to feel meek and inferior now?

Of course not. No one is trying to make you feel meek and inferior. You asked a question, and experienced brewers answered. More than once.

 

[danielbt]

Driving without tires, that's cool right?

Anyhow, boiling the wort and hops causes all sorts of good chemical reactions that lead to good beer. Yeast will grow in whatever, so do your 1 minute boil and see what you get.

 

[DoubleAught]

It would probably work, and you'd most certainly make beer however bad it would taste. The methods most of us use are brewing procedures handed down over hundreds of years, tried and true methods to make the best beer possible. Occasionally a new method will be developed, but honestly can't see this being one of them. I'd suggest trying it, it can at the very least be a learning experience.

 

[ron,ar]

I have considered something along those lines, when making 1 gallon batches, but had to reconsider due to the hops utilization. I was thinking of it mainly because of the boil loss. I had thought maybe I could cut down my boil time as it was a small batch and could except for the chemistry (hops, dme etc) involved. My first attempt at a one gallon batch ended badly as I didn't realize that once it starts boiling, it doesn't matter if you are boiling 1 gallon or 10, the boil-off rate is the same.
Try a 30 minute boil and see how it works, maybe it will be drinkable, maybe not, but if it ain't very good think how bad it might be if cut back by 59 minutes. Heck, I did a 60 minute boil on what should have been 90 minutes and didn't like the results, there are timetables for a reason, far more complicated than I can explain, I just take them as gospel now and try to make better beer.

 

[jmtwo]

Is this where I am supposed to feel meek and inferior now?

Were you expecting to be told that you're a genius, and why didn't anyone think of this before?

 

[squeekybobo]

Were you expecting to be told that you're a genius, and why didn't anyone think of this before?

+1 to this. And nobody played off the "You don't want a melted or burned sack." Post?

Personally, I don't want either. I'd say its your brew, do what you want. But personally, if I wanted to save time, I'd reduce to a 30 min. Boil vs. a 1 min. Boil first to see how it turned out.

 

[bottlebomber]

You could make a Berliner Weiss, in which you don't actually have to boil the wort at all in some cases and hops aren't really an issue. If you are interested in what the effects of a minimal boil would be, that would be one way to find out.