Any Mexican lager suggestions?

[Cain]

As the title states, I'm looking for help.

I've tried brewing a Mexican lager 3 times, and it was good, but it lacked the taste of a "Mexican" lager. I don't mean skunked, or light struck (or insert macro beer joke here), I mean that distinct Mexican lager taste.

I used a Mexican lager yeast each time.

My recipe was: 80% pilsner and 20 % corn, and noble hops with filtered water, brewed to 5.2% ABV .

It came out as a clean, crisp lager, which is never bad, but it missed the intended mark. Basically, it tasted like a good cream ale or a nice, no-obvious-off-flavor, lager.

I guess the water chemistry is a question mark, and I don't do anything to my water other than filter it through the fridge filter system. Maybe that's the key?

Any thoughts?

 

[fluketamer]

this was not that hard to make. and came out really good. maltier than corona but not by much . i think of commercial mexican lagers as light lawnmower beers with some hop and a little malt. (similar to american bmc beers) sometimes the corn comes through sometimes it just makes a very thin dry beer like corona.

9 lbs pilsner
1 lb flaked corn
.5 lbs carapils

.25 galena at 60
.25 galena at 5

i did 90 min mash and 90 min boil. at 152 i think i dont remember why . lol

and 1 pack of cellar science baja at 54 degrees for 2 weeks with a 3 days at 68 for DAR.

i lagered it for 4 weeks but it came out really good.

btw this yeast was the cleanest lager yeast i have ever used. its too clean it contributes zero flavor to the beer IMO. it works well for american and mexican lagers not german.

 

[jdauria]

If it were me, I would would pump the corn up a little, like 70% Pils, 30% corn, and for the corn I would use malted corn instead of flaked. There are craft maltsters that sell malted corn. I ordered some from Deer Creek in PA, a blend of blue and white corn, for an American Lager...the malted corn brought this great corn taco shell aroma to the beer.

As for water, looking at the Dallas water report for '23 online, it does not really list the key brewing minerals, but does mention there is chlorine in the water. Not sure a fridge filter removes that. Fill your kettle the night before and leave uncovered, the chlorine will evaporate off. And if water has chloramines you need to add a campden tablet to before mashing in. Also check out this thread on Dallas water Water, it seems there is a wide range for sulfates and chloride. For a light lager, it's better for those to be on the lower end and for a Mexican Lager, you definitely want more chloride than sulfate. If you read the thread, and granted it's several years old, it mentions that the Dallas water at the time is better suited for beers in 6-11 SRM range, copper colored beers. Maybe consider mixing in a few gallons of RO or distilled water to your tap water, then adding back some Calcium Chloride?

 

[brewSJ]

Vienna malt is the taste I get from most of the darker Mexican lagers. Maybe that’s what you’re looking for?

 

[Cain]

Thanks for the replies. This gives me some ideas and some research to do. Much appreciated!

 

[scrap iron]

I agree with brewSJ, Vienna is key for me. I have a beer in the fermenter now. It has almost 70% Vienna with Munich 1 at near 20% and the rest Pilsner malt with a small amount of carafa 1 special added during the last 10 mins of mash for color. The yeast is Omega Mex. Lager, and the mash sample came out promising. I didn't use any corn but that's a personal preference.
I second on the water and you need to treat with Campden tablets or powder SMB or PMB to remove chlorine or chloramine.

 

[Yesfan]

I did one recently just to use up some ingredients. Instead of flaked corn, I used a bag of Santitas corn chips. It turned out decent, but I think in the future, I'll go back to the flaked corn. Mine had hardly any head retention and I'm sure that was from the oils used to make the chips. It was a novel idea at the time that I probably won't do again, but the beer wasn't bad. I finished the keg, so that's saying something.

I like Pacifico a lot, but noticed that beer lacks good head retention too. I want to do a version of that but with mine having a rich creamy head to it.

 

[scrap iron]

I did one recently just to use up some ingredients. Instead of flaked corn, I used a bag of Santitas corn chips. It turned out decent, but I think in the future, I'll go back to the flaked corn. Mine had hardly any head retention and I'm sure that was from the oils used to make the chips. It was a novel idea at the time that I probably won't do again, but the beer wasn't bad. I finished the keg, so that's saying something.

I like Pacifico a lot, but noticed that beer lacks good head retention too. I want to do a version of that but with mine having a rich creamy head to it.

Not to highjack the thread but I tried Pacifica in a new west coast IPA and was pleased.

 

[dmtaylor]

I'm just going to say it:

I fail to understand how Mexican lagers are any different from any other international style lagers.

 

[Yesfan]

Not to highjack the thread but I tried Pacifica in a new west coast IPA and was pleased.

Pacifica the hop or Pacifico the beer? I was talking about the Mexican beer. You gave me a good idea though. A Pacifico clone that's dry hopped with Pacifica hops. "Dry hop a Mexican lager?, you can't do that."

Yes I can. Homebrewers are like honey badgers. We don't give a sh!t. We just brew what we want.......

 

[Yesfan]

I'm just going to say it:

I fail to understand how Mexican lagers are any different from any other international style lagers.

Is it mainly the yeast and corn adjuncts that differentiate it from the other international lagers?

 

[stamandster]

I'm just going to say it:

I fail to understand how Mexican lagers are any different from any other international style lagers.

BJCP doesn't have a category for "Mexican Lager" but would probably be closest to the category of International Lager (2a or 2b, encompassing American, Mexican, Japanese, etc Lagers) because of the adjuncts.

 

[dmtaylor]

Is it mainly the yeast and corn adjuncts that differentiate it from the other international lagers?

I was going to say the mandate of corn might be the only thing. But international lagers use corn all the time so this is not very distinctive. And Mexican yeast is so effing closely related to German yeast that the distinction is worthless IMO.

But I probably digress. I just couldn't not say stuff.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

What yeast do you plan on using?

 

[scrap iron]

Pacifica the hop or Pacifico the beer? I was talking about the Mexican beer. You gave me a good idea though. A Pacifico clone that's dry hopped with Pacifica hops. "Dry hop a Mexican lager?, you can't do that."

Yes I can. Homebrewers are like honey badgers. We don't give a ****. We just brew what we want.......

My bad, my mind went right to the hop. I like your dry hop idea.
Pacifica is an aroma hop that is typically used in only late boil additions, including dry hopping. Pacifica has aroma descriptors that include a signature citrus orange zest marmalade; classic Hallertau characteristics with some floral notes.
By the descriptors used I was thinking about using it as late hops in a British bitter [orange zest, marmalade] any thoughts, anyone?

 

[Cain]

I was going to say the mandate of corn might be the only thing. But international lagers use corn all the time so this is not very distinctive. And Mexican yeast is so effing closely related to German yeast that the distinction is worthless IMO.

But I probably digress. I just couldn't not say stuff.

I don't disagree with this at all. Many brewers make a Mexican Lager they are happy with that use 34/70, S23 and other variations of yeast. I thought the Mexican yeast would make the magical difference, but what I got was a basic, clean, yellow fizzy.
What then, makes a keg served(i.e. neither light struck nor skunked) Corona taste like a Corona?

 

[Kickass]

Vienna malt!

70% Vienna
30% corn

noble hops

34/70

Delicious!

 

[tracer bullet]

I fail to understand how Mexican lagers are any different from any other international style lagers.

What other lagers do you think of as international lagers? Genuine question, I'm not really sure what the term means.

I'd guess the ratio of ingredients, or some fine details on the ingredients. Even in Mexican lagers I like Modelo the most, Tecate somewhat less, and Pacifico not so much. It could be a bias, I drink one thinking ahead of time if I'll like it or not, but I swear they are different to me for whatever reason. And I tend to like Modelo over practically any German lager - those all have a taste I can't explain but that I don't like - but I don't know if they fall under an International category.

Not to make a straw man, but how are any lagers different from each other? Take the answer and apply it to Mexican. Small changes that must add up?

 

[DonT]

I brewed up a mexican lager recently for my brothers birthday. I used about 64% MO, 32% malted corn and 4% munich
For the hops I bittered with Magnum then 1oz of Motueka at 5min. I also dry hopped it with another oz. of Motueka, with gives it a lemon-lime flavor. It has a nice flavor to it, not traditional by any means, but good. If I do this again, next time I'd forgo the dry hop and move the 5min to the whirlpool.

 

[ntempleton]

Here's my current Mexican Lager.

BEST Heidelberg (78.0%)
Flaked Corn (12.2%)
Malteurop Vienna (9.8%)
Single infusion mash at 146f for 45mins

Hallertau Blanc Boil 60 min (12.2 IBUs)

WLP940 - Fermented at 10c, spunded & free rise temp at 4 plato

Est Original Gravity: 10.0 Plato (1.040)
Est Final Gravity: 1.6 Plato (1.006)
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.4 %

 

[FloppyKnockers]

"Mexican Lager" is a pretty broad stroke. Are we looking for a Modelo, Victoria, Estrella, or Dos Equis? I do believe corn is the common denominator in all of these. What lager yeast are you using? I've had great luck with the White Labs yeast - others swear by the Omega Mexican strain.

As far as water goes, their water throughout the country is generally hard. Since our water tends to be fairly hard too, I would just start with tap.

 

[jdauria]

What other lagers do you think of as international lagers? Genuine question, I'm not really sure what the term means.

So the BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program) style guideline lists samples of the style...for Pale International, it lists Heineken, Red Stripe, Moretti, Asahi Super Dry and Singha, plus some craft versions. Others I can think of are Presidente, Peroni, Balashi in Aruba, and I think Modelo, Pacifico and other Mexican/Caribbean beach beers fall in that category.

Amber International Lagers are like Dos Equis Amber, Yuengling, Brooklyn Lager etc. Dark International are beers like Heineken Dark, Shiner Bock, Saint Pauli Girl Dark, Modelo Negra etc.

The main key thing that ties them all together is the use of adjuncts (corn, rice, etc) and that they are usually less flavorful then similar styles like German or Czech Pilsners, Euro dark lagers etc.

 

[tracer bullet]

So the BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program) style guideline lists samples of the style...for Pale International, it lists Heineken, Red Stripe, Moretti, Asahi Super Dry and Singha, plus some craft versions. Others I can think of are Presidente, Peroni, Balashi in Aruba, and I think Modelo, Pacifico and other Mexican/Caribbean beach beers fall in that category.

Amber International Lagers are like Dos Equis Amber, Yuengling, Brooklyn Lager etc. Dark International are beers like Heineken Dark, Shiner Bock, Saint Pauli Girl Dark, Modelo Negra etc.

The main key thing that ties them all together is the use of adjuncts (corn, rice, etc) and that they are usually less flavorful then similar styles like German or Czech Pilsners, Euro dark lagers etc.

Thanks. I did see the BJCP examples and thought, well, they just covered the whole earth. This is helfpul.

 

[worlddivides]

Thanks. I did see the BJCP examples and thought, well, they just covered the whole earth. This is helfpul.

I wonder whether it's just that most people don't brew those styles, so they just use "International Lager" as "Other" because it seems pretty insane to be like "American Lager," "American Light Lager," "Czech Pale Lager," "Czech Premium Pale Lager," ""Czech Amber Lager," "Czech Dark Lager," 500 styles of German lager... "What about Japanese lagers? Mexican lagers?" "*********, let's just make an International Lager category and shove everything in there."

 

[stamandster]

So the BJCP (Beer Judge Certification Program) style guideline lists samples of the style...for Pale International, it lists Heineken, Red Stripe, Moretti, Asahi Super Dry and Singha, plus some craft versions. Others I can think of are Presidente, Peroni, Balashi in Aruba, and I think Modelo, Pacifico and other Mexican/Caribbean beach beers fall in that category.

Amber International Lagers are like Dos Equis Amber, Yuengling, Brooklyn Lager etc. Dark International are beers like Heineken Dark, Shiner Bock, Saint Pauli Girl Dark, Modelo Negra etc.

The main key thing that ties them all together is the use of adjuncts (corn, rice, etc) and that they are usually less flavorful then similar styles like German or Czech Pilsners, Euro dark lagers etc.

Very true! One thing to note is that the German and other Holy Roman Empire state beers were historically guided by the beer purity law Reinheitsgebot. Once these communities/migrants were outside of that rule of the land, they added what seemed sufficient to produce beer to their liking and local ingredients.

 

[Broothru]

I was going to say the mandate of corn might be the only thing. But international lagers use corn all the time so this is not very distinctive. And Mexican yeast is so effing closely related to German yeast that the distinction is worthless IMO.

But I probably digress. I just couldn't not say stuff.

“Mexican” lager was first brewed by German immigrants just as American lagers were first brewed by Germans with names like Coors and Miller and Busch. They used indigenous ingredients (I.e., corn) to augment the grist.

Mexican lagers (not the ‘lite’ ones like Pacifico) have more in common with American Amber beers. Modelo Negra is essentially an American Amber, which is an homage to Vienna lager with corn adjuncts.

Pacifico, Corona, etc., are gringo beers with citric acid flavoring more akin to Miller Lite or Bud Light Lime. I prefer a Blonde Ale with a slice of lime to any of those inauthentic Mexican beers. Modelo Negra is a legit beer that I used to drink often when South of the Border, eating legit Mexican food instead of the knock-off Sonoran Tex-Mex pretenders.

 

[worlddivides]

https://www.bjcp.org/style/2015/2/2A/international-pale-lager/

I'd never actually read this before, but it's full of so many inaccuracies (which shouldn't be a surprise since it's trying to sum up tons of different countries' lagers in a single style).

As just one example, the very first commercial example it gives is Asahi Super Dry, which makes zero sense when they have the FG range as 1.008 to 1.012 when Asahi Super Dry's FG is much closer to 1.000 (hence the name). A lot of the Japanese lagers from the "Dry Wars" in the late 1980s and early 1990s (but that are still popular today) have FG's in the 1.000 to 1.006 range. Even among Japanese lagers, though, there are some that use rice and others that are 100% malt.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Modelo clone

Malts (4.9 kg)​

3.8 kg (77.6%) — Crisp Europils Malt — Grain — 1.7 SRM
800 g (16.3%) — Corn, Flaked — Grain — 1.3 SRM
200 g (4.1%) — BESTMALZ BEST Caramel Pils — Grain — 2.5 SRM
100 g (2%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 1.8 SRM

Hops (36 g)​

16 g (12 IBU) — Cascade 6.1% — Boil — 60 min
20 g (5 IBU) — Willamette 4.4% — Boil — 15 min

M54 yeast

 

[tracer bullet]

Modelo clone

Malts (4.9 kg)​

3.8 kg (77.6%) — Crisp Europils Malt — Grain — 1.7 SRM
800 g (16.3%) — Corn, Flaked — Grain — 1.3 SRM
200 g (4.1%) — BESTMALZ BEST Caramel Pils — Grain — 2.5 SRM
100 g (2%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 1.8 SRM

Hops (36 g)​

16 g (12 IBU) — Cascade 6.1% — Boil — 60 min
20 g (5 IBU) — Willamette 4.4% — Boil — 15 min

M54 yeast

You've made it? Done a side by side? Would you say you cloned it?

It definitely looks yummy but is just quite different from the other purported clones.

 

[Broothru]

Modelo clone

Malts (4.9 kg)​

3.8 kg (77.6%) — Crisp Europils Malt — Grain — 1.7 SRM
800 g (16.3%) — Corn, Flaked — Grain — 1.3 SRM
200 g (4.1%) — BESTMALZ BEST Caramel Pils — Grain — 2.5 SRM
100 g (2%) — Weyermann Acidulated — Grain — 1.8 SRM

Hops (36 g)​

16 g (12 IBU) — Cascade 6.1% — Boil — 60 min
20 g (5 IBU) — Willamette 4.4% — Boil — 15 min

M54 yeast

Good looking recipe for ‘Modelo’ (the style of Bitter European Lager) tho not Modelo Negra which is the dark lager. Either way, the German brewers who emigrated to Mexico brought their skills to the New World and applied them using indigenous ingredients, just as they did in the United States. In both instances they produced distinctive beers with a Continental twist.