Any Lallemand Philly Sour feedback or experience to share?

[OldDogBrewing]

Which pitch rate do you think it's right for a 1 gallon batch? I'm thinking about adding the whole pack

 

[stealthfixr]

Which pitch rate do you think it's right for a 1 gallon batch? I'm thinking about adding the whole pack

You could check the Lallemand pitching rate calculator (under brewing tools), but I’d be inclined to pitch the whole packet and call it good.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

You could check the Lallemand pitching rate calculator (under brewing tools), but I’d be inclined to pitch the whole packet and call it good.

The calculator tells me to pitch less than other lallemand yeasts but for what's been shared here, it needs to be overpitched, right?

One more thing, does it attenuate a lot? I'm planning on staying at the 6% ABV mark

 

[Elric]

For one gallon you should be fine with a half pack.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

For one gallon you should be fine with a half pack.

Thanks! I'm planning on mashing high and short to try and have a beer with certain sweetness, should I add some simple sugars so the yeast has something to eat easily while souring?

 

[Elric]

If you plan to mash high would probably be best to add some simple sugars, I mashed low so I didn't feel I needed any.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

If you plan to mash high would probably be best to add some simple sugars, I mashed low so I didn't feel I needed any.

I'll be brewing a kind of hoppy sour so I think I need some sweetness to play with the sourness

So basically, I will be "controlling" how sour it will be with the amount of simple sugars?

 

[Shorza]

Well, 3 weeks later one of the bottles conditioning without any additional yeast is carbed up perfectly! Looks like I won't be using any conditioning yeast with Philly Sour in the future. There were rumors that it wouldn't do well. However, I haven't heard of anyone that has actually tried it. ....

Have you bottle conditioned another brew using this yeast yet?
I want to be absolutely sure that this yeast will carb up in the bottle before i attempt it.

 

[t1m1]

And, one from me, fresh raspberry sour.

Very tasty, so glad I have it on tap!

 

[Tyler B]

I'll be brewing a kind of hoppy sour so I think I need some sweetness to play with the sourness

So basically, I will be "controlling" how sour it will be with the amount of simple sugars?

Based on my experience, I'd add 1/2 of a pack (2 packs/5 gallons recommended = 0.4 packs). You could probably even get by with 1/4 of a pack so I wouldn't do a whole pack. Apparently, over pitching can result in less sourness, just like underpitchng.

Also, if you mash high for the body and residual sweetness, add 3% of the grain bill simple sugars to ensure it actually finishes sour. At least that's what I'd do. Follow up and let us know how it turns out.

 

[Smitty4263]

I am storing my Philly sour yeast in the fridge right now. Do I need to get it to room temperature before pitching or can I pitch right from the fridge?

 

[OldDogBrewing]

I am storing my Philly sour yeast in the fridge right now. Do I need to get it to room temperature before pitching or can I pitch right from the fridge?

What does it say in the package? I don't have mine yet, probably arriving monday, but I would treat it like the package says, if it says nothing, just do what usually works for you with dry yeast, I take it out 30 minutes before rehydration

 

[BlackfyreBrewing]

Have you bottle conditioned another brew using this yeast yet?
I want to be absolutely sure that this yeast will carb up in the bottle before i attempt it.

I've had no problem bottle conditioning with this yeast. I use 1/2 cup of table sugar per five gallons and they are plenty carbed, borderline champagne levels of carbonation from the bottles I capped last that go in the half full box where they fall over a couple times lol.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

I've had no problem bottle conditioning with this yeast. I use 1/2 cup of table sugar per five gallons and they are plenty carbed, borderline champagne levels of carbonation from the bottles I capped last that go in the half full box where they fall over a couple times lol.

Did you noticed any more sourness? Or once it's done fermenting, doesn't create more acid when eating simple sugars?

 

[Elric]

Did you noticed any more sourness? Or once it's done fermenting, doesn't create more acid when eating simple sugars?

Souring only really seems to happen in the initial phase of fermentation. Is same reason most people report no to little sourness when the repitch this yeast.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

Souring only really seems to happen in the initial phase of fermentation. Is same reason most people report no to little sourness when the repitch this yeast.

It makes sense, it seems is really pitch dependent so I guess when bottle conditioning, we are "underpitching"

 

[Kenmoron]

Have you bottle conditioned another brew using this yeast yet?
I want to be absolutely sure that this yeast will carb up in the bottle before i attempt it.

I’ve bottle conditioned other batches just fine. And in regards to the comment about additional souring, there isn’t any noticeable difference. I saw a drop in pH of 0.02 from bottle conditioning, but this is still likely within the realm of standard deviation.

 

[BlackfyreBrewing]

Did you noticed any more sourness? Or once it's done fermenting, doesn't create more acid when eating simple sugars?

No, it does it's sour thing in the first few days than it seems like than that aspect stops. I'm on my fourth batch using this yeast (not counting the repitch I did), the batch where I added dextrose to the boil is the batch that turned out the "sourest" so to speak. I would never expect to get like a biting sour out of this stuff tho.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

No, it does it's sour thing in the first few days than it seems like than that aspect stops. I'm on my fourth batch using this yeast (not counting the repitch I did), the batch where I added dextrose to the boil is the batch that turned out the "sourest" so to speak. I would never expect to get like a biting sour out of this stuff tho.

Great to know, I will be mashing low and add quite a bit of dextrose to ensure low enough attenuation and sourness, I'm planning on doing a sour IPA so for the first batch I prefer to over attenuate and backsweeten with lactose if needed that ending up with a cloying beer

Then I will keep on experimenting and trying different things like hot mash and lots of dextrose or low mash no dextrose

 

[Northern_Brewer]

If anyone has enjoyed their experience of Philly Sour enough to want to play around with other Lachanceas, I've just noticed that TYB are now doing a Berkeley Hills blend of them in their Wild collection, WLP4663. Interesting some of their notes - adding 20% glucose to the grist pushes the profile from red apple to stone fruit and produces a bit more acid. Perhaps @Biobrewer can tell us more? Does Philly Sour do the same?

As an aside, good to see TYB expanding their collection of fun bugs, and moving some of their beta releases into the main lines produced at White Labs, which means we actually have a chance of finding them over here in the UK.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

If anyone has enjoyed their experience of Philly Sour enough to want to play around with other Lachanceas, I've just noticed that TYB are now doing a Berkeley Hills blend of them in their Wild collection, WLP4663. Interesting some of their notes - adding 20% glucose to the grist pushes the profile from red apple to stone fruit and produces a bit more acid. Perhaps @Biobrewer can tell us more? Does Philly Sour do the same?

As an aside, good to see TYB expanding their collection of fun bugs, and moving some of their beta releases into the main lines produced at White Labs, which means we actually have a chance of finding them over here in the UK.

This one seems to be more predictable, or TYB has done more research than Lallemand, and it can be repitched

 

[BlackfyreBrewing]

If anyone has enjoyed their experience of Philly Sour enough to want to play around with other Lachanceas, I've just noticed that TYB are now doing a Berkeley Hills blend of them in their Wild collection, WLP4663. Interesting some of their notes - adding 20% glucose to the grist pushes the profile from red apple to stone fruit and produces a bit more acid. Perhaps @Biobrewer can tell us more? Does Philly Sour do the same?

As an aside, good to see TYB expanding their collection of fun bugs, and moving some of their beta releases into the main lines produced at White Labs, which means we actually have a chance of finding them over here in the UK.

I would order some to try but it says it's sold out. Now does this strain produce lactic acid and ethanol production like Philly Sour? It mentions lactic acid production but I don't see anything about ethanol production in the description.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I don't see anything about ethanol production in the description.

" Attenuation: 68%-75% "

 

[BlackfyreBrewing]

" Attenuation: 68%-75% "

Forgive me I'm only an amateur, and I don't know much about how these la chancea yeasts work and how the definitionof attenuation applies to them. My understanding of attenuation is it is the percentage of converted sugars; I don't know if it applies only to the conversion of sugars to alcohol; or the conversion of sugar to lactic acid; or both.

So when I have two different la chancea yeasts; one saying it ferments lactic acid and ethanol; and another just saying lactic acid...I don't know that the attenuation percentage alone is an indicator that that particular yeast creates alcohol or doesn't.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

I would order some to try but it says it's sold out. Now does this strain produce lactic acid and ethanol production like Philly Sour? It mentions lactic acid production but I don't see anything about ethanol production in the description.

It must be producing some ethanol if it attenuates over 70%, if it doesn't, there will be no room for alcohol production which makes it a pretty hard to use yeast

Forgive me I'm only an amateur, and I don't know much about how these la chancea yeasts work and how the definitionof attenuation applies to them. My understanding of attenuation is it is the percentage of converted sugars; I don't know if it applies only to the conversion of sugars to alcohol; or the conversion of sugar to lactic acid; or both.

So when I have two different la chancea yeasts; one saying it ferments lactic acid and ethanol; and another just saying lactic acid...I don't know that the attenuation percentage alone is an indicator that that particular yeast creates alcohol or doesn't.

I think a part of that sugar goes to acid production but 70% is too high for that, so I understand there is some ethanol production too

 

[BlackfyreBrewing]

It must be producing some ethanol if it attenuates over 70%, if it doesn't, there will be no room for alcohol production which makes it a pretty hard to use yeast,


I think a part of that sugar goes to acid production but 70% is too high for that, so I understand there is some ethanol production too

Thank you for the clarification!

 

[OldDogBrewing]

Thank you for the clarification!

If it works like Philly sour, the simplest sugars go for lactic acid production and the other ones, more complex, go to alcohol production

And apparently it's a blend of different strains, so it may be more complex than that with some strains maybe producing more acid and other ones more focused on alcohol, although it seems that all the strains are Lacchancea Thermotolerans which if I understood correctly the webinar from Lallemand, Philly sour is a Lachancea but from a diferent "family" and not Thermotolerans

 

[BlackfyreBrewing]

If it works like Philly sour, the simplest sugars go for lactic acid production and the other ones, more complex, go to alcohol production

And apparently it's a blend of different strains, so it may be more complex than that with some strains maybe producing more acid and other ones more focused on alcohol, although it seems that all the strains are Lacchancea Thermotolerans which if I understood correctly the webinar from Lallemand, Philly sour is a Lachancea but from a diferent "family" and not Thermotolerans

Good to know! I'd never heard of these strains of yeast before Philly Sour came out I still have a lot to learn.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

Good to know! I'd never heard of these strains of yeast before Philly Sour came out I still have a lot to learn.

It's because they don't belong to brewing or wine making, if I'm not wrong, they thrive in fruit and can be transported by fruit flies but without them, they are not found in beer or wine.

I think they started being studied for wine making and made it to brewing thanks to its ability of souring and producing alcohol

 

[BlackfyreBrewing]

It's because they don't belong to brewing or wine making, if I'm not wrong, they thrive in fruit and can be transported by fruit flies but without them, they are not found in beer or wine.

I think they started being studied for wine making and made it to brewing thanks to its ability of souring and producing alcohol

Very cool! I've only read stuff about them being in kambiucha