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Ryanh1801

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No this country needs to allow CHL's in the class room fast. Im just glad that in 90% of my classes their is at least one or two cop's, most of whom I know and know they carry off duty.
 
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Pugilist said:
This country needs some gun control and fast.
I know this could get heated, so I'll keep this short and hopefully factual.

Gun control wouldn't have stopped this event. Unless we systematically destroy every gun owned by the general populace and come up with a way to enforce the strictest gun control on the planet, some idiot will always have access to a firearm, ammunition, and (very unfortunately) people at which to shoot.

Oddly enough, if we outlaw guns, gun crime will escalate to seemingly enormous proportions, since the simple act of owning a gun will become a crime.
 

Jumbo82

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Maybe instead of gun control, require everyone to carry a gun. I doubt this psycho would have got many shots off... although we might end up with more road rage shootings... ok, I don't know the answer, but I'll be damned if the gub'ments gunna take my hunting rifle!
 
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Pugilist

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Its an interesting topic and can get heated. I work in law enforcement and always carry concealed when off duty. The shame is the right to bear arms which we all know about is just abused. I work with plenty of guys who hunt, and know plenty of civilian/military/and LE that are responsible gun owners.

By control I personally mean some way to regulate where guns end up. I think the most evident thing is that we have way too many weapons in this country floating around in the wrong channels. When you compare our violent crimes involving firearms to European or other foreign countries it is astounding the difference. What do they do right that we do so wrong to maintain control on this?
 

Nurmey

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Pugilist said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23171567?GT1=10856

Really getting to be ridiculous. This country needs some gun control and fast. :(
No thank you. It is a horrible shame when criminals and crazies get a hold of guns but I prefer to leave what's left of the Constitution of the United States of America as intact as possible. It is after all what made this country great.
 

rfidd

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I think I read that the shooter used a shotgun and a pistol, so even if gun control was implemented, I think there are enough hunters that shotguns would still be around.

Terrible incident, I really don't have a solution for the problem.

Rick
 

EdWort

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Pugilist said:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23171567?GT1=10856

Really getting to be ridiculous. This country needs some gun control and fast. :(
It's gun control that creates these "Gun Free Zones" where people are supposed to be "Safe".

All they do is stop law abiding people from being able to defend themselves.

Kooks & Criminals love "Gun Free Zones" because "Gun Control" has made them very safe....Safe for the Kook & Criminal.
 

uglygoat

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these school shooters obviously are crazies if you ask me. no amount of gun control is gonna stop a psyco from shooting up the place when he/she descends that far into madness. somehow, there needs to be some intervention before the lunatics get to the point where they're gonna shoot the place up...

i don't have any answers. don't own any guns, don't know if the common interpretation of the amendment that allows the right of citizens to bare arms is what the founders actually had in mind either...
 

Guinness71

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Yuri_Rage said:
I know this could get heated, so I'll keep this short and hopefully factual.

Gun control wouldn't have stopped this event. Unless we systematically destroy every gun owned by the general populace and come up with a way to enforce the strictest gun control on the planet, some idiot will always have access to a firearm, ammunition, and (very unfortunately) people at which to shoot.

Oddly enough, if we outlaw guns, gun crime will escalate to seemingly enormous proportions, since the simple act of owning a gun will become a crime.

EdWort said:
It's gun control that creates these "Gun Free Zones" where people are supposed to be "Safe".

All they do is stop law abiding people from being able to defend themselves.

Kooks & Criminals love "Gun Free Zones" because "Gun Control" has made them very safe....Safe for the Kook & Criminal.

+1 - thats all I'm saying on this subject..
 

niquejim

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Pugilist said:
Its an interesting topic and can get heated. I work in law enforcement and always carry concealed when off duty. The shame is the right to bear arms which we all know about is just abused. I work with plenty of guys who hunt, and know plenty of civilian/military/and LE that are responsible gun owners.

By control I personally mean some way to regulate where guns end up. I think the most evident thing is that we have way too many weapons in this country floating around in the wrong channels. When you compare our violent crimes involving firearms to European or other foreign countries it is astounding the difference. What do they do right that we do so wrong to maintain control on this?

I understand what you're saying and I'm not smart enough to come up with the solution.:(
As for the European nations, they were willing to give up their liberties for security and I for one(and most of the US) will not
 

rdwj

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Pugilist said:
This country needs some gun control and fast. :(
Would it have made you feel better if he would have blown the place up instead?

There are plenty of ways to kill people if you want to - society needs to stop letting TV and the internet raise their kids.
 

Ryanh1801

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Got this in an Email the other day. Maybe forcing people to tuck in their shirts is the anwser. :rolleyes:
 
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Thirdeye

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Ryanh1801 said:
No this country needs to allow CHL's in the class room fast. Im just glad that in 90% of my classes their is at least one or two cop's, most of whom I know and know they carry off duty.
+100000

Those poor kids. Shot like ducks in a barrel. Its pathetic. RIP.
 

cowgo

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Chimone said:
yea gun control.....because that will solve everything
Well, you don't read about this happening in England. Stricter gun control laws there, or less of a f$%#% up culture? I agree with the NRA...and for that reason I think it's time to repeal the second amendment.
 

Ryanh1801

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cowgo said:
Well, you don't read about this happening in England. Stricter gun control laws there, or less of a f$%#% up culture? I agree with the NRA...and for that reason I think it's time to repeal the second amendment.

Please do some research!!!:)
 

zbeeblebrox

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i would think you don't read about them because your not in england.
but then again i am member of the NRA and have a federal firearms license so i am gonna be biased.
 

Ryanh1801

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cowgo said:
Nice link, but again, do you read about these types of massacres in England? Rhetorical question...no, you don't. What's the difference there from here?

If it's not gun control....please let it be CAMRA.:tank:

Really??? As I said you really should do some research on country's that have banned guns. Is it really a surprise that other country's news is not in our news?
 

cowgo

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eriktlupus said:

OK, that link says gun crimes are on the rise, but also states that England still has one of the lowest rates of gun crimes in the world. No mention whatsoever in that BBC article about massacres like you see here (e.g., today, Virginia Tech, Columbine, et al ad nauseum)

What does Orfy or someone living in England think? I used to live in Scotland and I was very much in tune with the news there. Don't recall anything like this.

If it's not gun control, then maybe it's a weaken tri-lateral commission of Anhueser-Busch, Pabst and Miller?:mug:

I don't mean to start arguing with anyone here. I can't change your mind and you probably can't change mine. But you gotta admit, the last amednment to be repealed had it's advantages. Fro man agrees :fro:
 

PeteOz77

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rdwj said:
Would it have made you feel better if he would have blown the place up instead?

There are plenty of ways to kill people if you want to - society needs to stop letting TV and the internet raise their kids.

How about if he had driven a new Escalade into a crowd of people, then through a big glass wall, into the building and down the hallways, slaughtering everyone in sight?

Time to get rid of all motorised vehicles then eh?

I know guns make it EASY to kill a lot of people, but only if you are unimaginative... there are thousands of ways to kill a lot more people, a lot faster than with a shotgun...
 

PeteOz77

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One of the biggest problems in USA is not the number of guns, but the propensity to USE them in anger. I read a very in depth report about this subject about 4 years ago, and the gist if it was this:

America has a lot more areas of mulitculturalism (People of all races, religions and ancestry stacked on top of each other) than most other countries in the world. These areas of multiculralism are hotbeds of anxiety and hatred, where many people are on the edge a lot of the time. It doesn't take much to spark ANGER in a situation like this, and if you have a gun...and you are angry....

Add to that the problems in the not so nice neighborhoods, where you see a LOT of crime perpetrated by your own people (not casting aspersion, but an example is black on black crime)

Stack the desensitisation of movies, video games, and television (most of this SH!T originates in USA) on top of these factors, and it is NO WONDER that gun violence is higher in USA than anywhere else.

Last but not least in this bloody concoction is the "Y" generation having NO RESPECT FOR ANYTHING, much less life. They just don't CARE.


That's just my opinion, I could be wrong...
 

zbeeblebrox

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wild said:
off topic.
ahh yes the Lahti L-39 20mm anti tank rifle. on the C&R(curios and relics) list and one day i will own one. yet another great product of Finland.
now for on topic.
im not sure its the violence in tv/movies/video games that leads toward violence in real life (although i don't doubt that it may teach people how to commit acts of violence). i think it is more a problem of parenting of children. meaning the lack of knowledge of right from wrong. unless completely mentally ill the people who commit these horrible crimes believed somewhere in their mind that it is ok to solve their own problems by hurting innocent people.
 

xellios

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In a way, this really shows whats wrong with the gun control argument on a much smaller scale. Those that chose to obey the law are left defenseless sitting ducks while the criminals get free reign.

The so called "gun free" zones in every school do nothing to stop a would be shooter. As if anyone really honestly thought an invisible barrier would...

A few guns in the hands of some responsible people would have made this situation turn out much much different.

Lets not forget that more times then not, these are angst filled punks that commit these crimes.

Once they start blasting people they have reached the point of no return, but perhaps if a would be shooter knows that some of the teachers on campus are armed, he might think twice about going forward with his suicide mission. The problem could very well be resolved before it even starts.
 

EdWort

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cowgo said:
Well, you don't read about this happening in England. Stricter gun control laws there, or less of a f$%#% up culture? I agree with the NRA...and for that reason I think it's time to repeal the second amendment.
Repeal the 2nd Amendment? I don't think so. The people of England have been emasculated and the criminials hold all the cards (including the guns). Englands libtard governement even pays the legal fees for the criminal's family to sue the person who killed in self defence. It's pathetic. Now they want to ban kitchen knives over there.


England and Wales have the highest crime rate among the world's leading economies, according to a new report by the United Nations.
The survey, which is likely to prove embarrassing to David Blunkett, the Home Secretary. shows that people are more likely to be mugged, burgled, robbed or assaulted here than in America, Germany, Russia, South Africa or any other of the world's 20 largest nations. Only the Dominican Republic, New Zealand and Finland have higher crime rates than England and Wales.
Add to that unchecked immigration, and an Arch Bishop who says adopting Sharia law in England is unavoidable.

Less F'dd up in England? I think not.
 

EdWort

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xellios said:
Once they start blasting people they have reached the point of no return, but perhaps if a would be shooter knows that some of the teachers on campus are armed, he might think twice about going forward with his suicide mission. The problem could very well be resolved before it even starts.
Wackos will never be stopped.

Armed citizens, however, can reduce the amount of senseless killing by a major factor by taking out the wacko early in his quest.
 

Soulive

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EdWort said:
Armed citizens, however, can reduce the amount of senseless killing by a major factor by taking out the wacko early in his quest.
I don't disagree with that, but how do you guarantee those armed citizens aren't potentially wackos? I'm clueless when it comes to guns, but would they have to pass emotional/psychological tests?
 

EdWort

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Soulive said:
I don't disagree with that, but how do you guarantee those armed citizens aren't potentially wackos? I'm clueless when it comes to guns, but would they have to pass emotional/psychological tests?
Here in Texas you have to pass a VERY stringent background check to be able to carry concealed. No felonies, no misdemeanors, no substance abuse, no psych problems, etc. You are fingerprinted and both the local and FBI run checks. This is after 10 hours of training and a written and practical exam.

CHL holders tend to be the most law abiding citizens out there (at least in Texas) due to the process to obtain the privilege.
 

zoebisch01

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Not sure if this has been mentioned, but seriously does anyone think the shootings in VA last year would have gone very far if responsible citizens or the (campus) police were packing on campus? I don't think so.

I feel 'Gun control' is a moot point in this nation because we will always have a black market. You can't make it go away. One of the only real successful nations to implement a gun control methodology is Japan. And it is not 100% effective because the Japanese gangsters still obtain and use guns (from the black market illegally). And more importantly it comes with a HUGE price in that basically the police can search you at any time for reasonable suspicion of carrying a firearm (or sword). And And the other side of the coin is that the police themselves do not generally carry firearms. Does anyone ever see that happening here?

The only way gun control would ever be effective would be to implement a police state, and quite frankly I say "no thanks". The solution? I don't claim to have one or know what should be done...but for starters we could probably do a better job as a society from isolating ourselves from one another. Most cases the people in mass shootings are disturbed individuals. People are angry, the youth is angry...but at what? How does one go so long before snapping? In many cases these people are angry and disturbed and need help, or need to be stopped before they cause harm to others.
 

Soulive

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EdWort said:
Here in Texas you have to pass a VERY stringent background check to be able to carry concealed. No felonies, no misdemeanors, no substance abuse, no psych problems, etc. You are fingerprinted and both the local and FBI run checks. This is after 10 hours of training and a written and practical exam.

CHL holders tend to be the most law abiding citizens out there (at least in Texas) due to the process to obtain the privilege.
If that were the protocol everywhere, I'd agree with it. My dad is a retired cop (honest, good variety) and I know if he were in that lecture hall, that kid would've been dropped in about 1.5 seconds. Then again, if it were made known that these people were in the schools, it'd most likely serve as prevention. These cowards always do this to unarmed innocent people...
 

Soulive

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zoebisch01 said:
People are angry, the youth is angry...but at what? How does one go so long before snapping? In many cases these people are angry and disturbed and need help, or need to be stopped before they cause harm to others.
But in many cases they're not helped. In many, many cases irresponsible doctors just feed them meds and write them off. Then one day they think they don't need their meds and they snap. I think it comes down to the laziness of many doctors and parents today...
 

PurdyGood

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I think another factor that contributes to all of this is the aforementioned "wackos." It is a known fact that underlying mental illness (depression, schizophrenia, bipolar, mood/personality disorder, etc.) commonly unveils itself during the college years. It is multifactorial as to why this occurs: take someone with a delicate hormonal/neurotransmitter balance out of the environment that they are accustomed to, throw them into a brand new place with brand new people and A LOT of new stressors, mix that with some excessive substance use, and BAM! Mental illness that was imminent becomes apparent. Without appropriate treatment, they "crack" and pull stuff like this shooting. Not much we can do about this, except maybe education and awareness so that friends and family can recognize the signs and symptoms and get the person appropriate treatment. (medication PLUS psychotherapy)
I agree that parenting (or the lack thereof) is a huge problem in today's society, and this is definitely another contributing factor.
Also, "Firearm control" involves hitting your target.
 

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