Another craft brewery bites the dust...

[k1ngl1ves]

I worked for a small engineering company. Less than 200 people. We were bought out at the beginning of the year by a national company. Here's what changed:


Nothing. No layoffs. No change in benefits... which are great btw.


Why? Because of collective bargaining. I wouldn't work without it...

 

[tagz]

I guess you're right. We certainly do not want the private sector to be the driving force behind our economy. We all know what a failure Reagans policies were.

Obviously there is a middle ground. We'd both probably agree that a regulated private sector can produce a significant level of wealth for a broad sector of society. That said, the belief that unfettered corporate power is a net positive for society is naive.

 

[seefish]

Why the hell do we even care about this? Make your own damn beer.

 

[madscientist451]

I read all the comments and respect other's views. But I really haven't seen any coherent explanation of any downside that comes with small breweries being bought by large corporate brewers. There's enough margin in beer that it will continue to attract more investment. That means more choices and better quality and more and more breweries. The big beer producers control the market and keep their prices high and the consumers keep paying. There's no interest in a price war, consumers seem to equate price with quality. That gives even more small brewers a chance to get started.
Germany has about 80 million people and 1,300 breweries. We need to add about 2,000 more breweries just to get to their brewery/population ratio. As beer drinkers, we have a lot to look forward to.

 

[soccerdad]

We all know what a failure Reagans policies were.

Brick - I'm not sure if this was tongue in check or not. If you have consumed sufficient RR cool aid you may think his 8 years were an economic success despite the fact that the first 6 were more than miserable. He pretty much emptied the treasury to try to jump start an economy that was in a down cycle - that never works! - but it set the tone for most succeeding presidents leaving us (as RR did) with the largest deficit in history.

Murray Rothbard was admittedly a disillusioned libertarian because Reagan promised so much in a small government, free market vein and delivered pretty much none of it ,,, but if you can see through some of his bias and disappointment, this is a fascinating essay - with significant truth

http://www.lewrockwell.com/1970/01/murray-n-rothbard/conservative-con-man/ for the economics part, scroll down to the heading "The Reagan Years: Libertarian Rhetoric, Statist Policies"

off my soap box - I got yeast to pitch

 

[brick_haus]

Appreciate the feedback soccerdad, but I find Murray Rothbard hard to take seriously.
I fell off of my soapbox earlier today. Hope all is well with the employees of the subject brewery.

 

[Talgrath]

I read all the comments and respect other's views. But I really haven't seen any coherent explanation of any downside that comes with small breweries being bought by large corporate brewers. There's enough margin in beer that it will continue to attract more investment. That means more choices and better quality and more and more breweries. The big beer producers control the market and keep their prices high and the consumers keep paying. There's no interest in a price war, consumers seem to equate price with quality. That gives even more small brewers a chance to get started.
Germany has about 80 million people and 1,300 breweries. We need to add about 2,000 more breweries just to get to their brewery/population ratio. As beer drinkers, we have a lot to look forward to.

For consumers, a buyout is bad all around. More breweries means more competition which means lower prices or higher quality expectations. Sure, it's just one brewery out of the many thousands in the United States, but it's still one less brewery. What's more, InBev buying out craft brewers may mean Coors and Miller go on the prowl to buy out breweries on their own. Every brewery we lose is less reason for BMC and craft breweries to improve their products and prices.

Additionally, it's worth noting that the craft beer market crash of the early 90's started much like this, with some of the bigger regional craft breweries being snapped up by BMC; the speculators rushed in, either artificially inflating local craft breweries or making new "craft" breweries of poor quality. In theory, the industry is smarter and more resilient now than the early 90's, but it's hard to not see some startling parallels. The last crash set back craft beer at least five years, if not more, another one could be similarly disastrous.

 

[eric19312]

I think corporate buyouts must make it easier to finance new breweries. Bankers want understandable exit strategy. InBev provides that, money flows. We beer drinkers benefit from the innovative start ups being able to attract investors to fund those 1000 barrels and multi year aging programs. I didn't much care for Ely beer anyway..the labels were glued onto the bottles too well.

 

[the_ale_scale]

They should past a legislation making it a requirement that breweries name the companies that own or are in possession of controlling shares in micro breweries for branding. Ie. Anheuser on a Bluemoon

 

[kombat]

They should past a legislation making it a requirement that breweries name the companies that own or are in possession of controlling shares in micro breweries for branding. Ie. Anheuser on a Bluemoon

Uh.. I believe that is the rule, for publicly-traded companies. They clearly publish all their holdings in their corporate literature, annual reports, or whatever other appropriate media. The shareholders are entitled to know exactly what it is they own.

In fact, many (most? all?) publicly-traded companies require majority shareholder approval before executing large buyouts. As an AB-InBev shareholder, I've personally voted on many corporate actions with the company, including consideration of buying smaller breweries. I don't recall any voting literature regarding the Elysian buyout, but that may just be because it's in the early stages, and will require shareholder approval before being finalized.

 

[madscientist451]

There is no indication that we will have less breweries anytime soon.
The number of breweries, including brewpubs, is growing by a pretty steady 15% a year. Indications are this growth will continue. Eventually the market will become saturated and there may be a drop in prices as the regional players try to maintain volume and market share, but I haven't seen anyone doing that yet. A regional brewery like Elysian getting bought out will have no impact on the selection of beers you can get. There are hundreds of applications for new breweries pending right now and I'm sure some entrepreneurs are seeing this corporate buyout as an opportunity to move in and get a slice of Elysian's business.

 

[hunter_le five]

There is no indication that we will have less breweries anytime soon.
The number of breweries, including brewpubs, is growing by a pretty steady 15% a year. Indications are this growth will continue. Eventually the market will become saturated and there may be a drop in prices as the regional players try to maintain volume and market share, but I haven't seen anyone doing that yet. A regional brewery like Elysian getting bought out will have no impact on the selection of beers you can get. There are hundreds of applications for new breweries pending right now and I'm sure some entrepreneurs are seeing this corporate buyout as an opportunity to move in and get a slice of Elysian's business.

This. While I'm not thrilled about ABInBev swallowing up another little guy, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it either. There are so many alternatives out there right now. There's no shortage of other breweries to buy from, and that number is growing at an amazing rate. I wonder if we'll end up seeing another "craft beer bubble" like in the 90s?

 

[zmanzorro]

Some people are confusing quality with preference of taste ...

 

[fhsfht]

Wonder if they will still make Loser?

 

[eric19312]

Uh.. I believe that is the rule, for publicly-traded companies. They clearly publish all their holdings in their corporate literature, annual reports, or whatever other appropriate media. The shareholders are entitled to know exactly what it is they own.



In fact, many (most? all?) publicly-traded companies require majority shareholder approval before executing large buyouts. As an AB-InBev shareholder, I've personally voted on many corporate actions with the company, including consideration of buying smaller breweries. I don't recall any voting literature regarding the Elysian buyout, but that may just be because it's in the early stages, and will require shareholder approval before being finalized.

I doubt if Elysian makes the rounding column. Probably does not require any sort of shareholder approval.

 

[the_ale_scale]

Uh.. I believe that is the rule, for publicly-traded companies. They clearly publish all their holdings in their corporate literature, annual reports, or whatever other appropriate media. The shareholders are entitled to know exactly what it is they own.



In fact, many (most? all?) publicly-traded companies require majority shareholder approval before executing large buyouts. As an AB-InBev shareholder, I've personally voted on many corporate actions with the company, including consideration of buying smaller breweries. I don't recall any voting literature regarding the Elysian buyout, but that may just be because it's in the early stages, and will require shareholder approval before being finalized.

What I meant and unfortunately didn't say was it should be required on the labels as a part of branding

 

[Silentdrinker]

Wonder if they will still make Loser?

They are.

Dick Cantwell was quoted in an article about it. He said the whole thing is a "joke" because they are a corporation. So he said they intended it to be making fun of their own brewery... but it took on another meaning and they just laughed and went with it. But ya, doesn't sound like that's entirely the truth.

 

[sudbuddy]

Maybe I'm a corporate tool, but I haven't seen life sucked out or quality suffer at Goose Island or Widmer. And listening to Mitch Steele in interviews or reading his blog, I never sense any ill sentiment towards AB/InBev. The Goose Island sale also enabled Virtue Cider to be founded by Greg Hall, which I love.

Evidence of the impending doom, please.

Goose Island sucks monkey b*lls now and it makes me really sad because I used to love them. The stuff still brewed in Chicago is pretty good though (Sofie, Matilda, Lolita, all the girls basically) but the old standards like Honkers and IPA have gone down the tubes. I dunno, something about adding rice to those grain bills just doesn't taste right anymore. I agree about Virtue though, it's awesome cider and it was a great way for Greg to get around his non-compete clause. Perhaps we'll start seeing more cool cideries and meaderies spring up after these sales.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Elysian is (or was, if you wish) a "rock star" brewery, and Dick's a "rock star" brewer. There's a thing about rock stars. Their fans tend to idolize them, identify with them and generally take them much more seriously than the rock stars take themselves. See David Buhler's quote in the "All About Beer" article: “I think the biggest emotion is how we’re seen in other peoples eyes, through their eyes. I don’t walk around all day using words like ‘iconic, legendary, favorite’, [to describe us] we don’t think of ourselves like that. We don’t see it like they do. I wanted access to cheap beer, that’s why I started.”

Mickey Mantle was my boyhood idol (dates me, doesn't it). It really hurt me when I read his autobiography and found out what a lousy person he was, and I'm still angry about it. But he didn't let me down. My idol worshiping let me down.

It's unfair to craft brewers to load them up with all sorts of expectations that go beyond being successful beer makers and entrepreneurs. They're investing their lives, treasure and creativity in a business. They don't need to bear the weight of (and pay the price for) this nonsense "kumbaya" ethos that craft bierdos demand with their beer.

As to AB buying up all the shelf space and filling it with the "craft beers" they've bought, nonsense. That can't work unless consumers stop demanding alternatives, and I don't see that coming. For every Elysian that is sold, there are 200-300 more starting up.

Make your choices and enjoy your beer.

 

[Grossy]

I think all real other craft brewers out there should place an emblem on their products:

"Not BMC*"

That way I will instantly know which breweries I can support and which ones I will not.



* Not BMC means not Budweiser, Miller-Coors, or associated with them in anyway

 

[Talgrath]

Elysian is (or was, if you wish) a "rock star" brewery, and Dick's a "rock star" brewer. There's a thing about rock stars. Their fans tend to idolize them, identify with them and generally take them much more seriously than the rock stars take themselves. See David Buhler's quote in the "All About Beer" article: “I think the biggest emotion is how we’re seen in other peoples eyes, through their eyes. I don’t walk around all day using words like ‘iconic, legendary, favorite’, [to describe us] we don’t think of ourselves like that. We don’t see it like they do. I wanted access to cheap beer, that’s why I started.”

Mickey Mantle was my boyhood idol (dates me, doesn't it). It really hurt me when I read his autobiography and found out what a lousy person he was, and I'm still angry about it. But he didn't let me down. My idol worshiping let me down.

It's unfair to craft brewers to load them up with all sorts of expectations that go beyond being successful beer makers and entrepreneurs. They're investing their lives, treasure and creativity in a business. They don't need to bear the weight of (and pay the price for) this nonsense "kumbaya" ethos that craft bierdos demand with their beer.

As to AB buying up all the shelf space and filling it with the "craft beers" they've bought, nonsense. That can't work unless consumers stop demanding alternatives, and I don't see that coming. For every Elysian that is sold, there are 200-300 more starting up.

Make your choices and enjoy your beer.

Except the expectations seemed quite realistic with Elysian. When your beer literally says "Corporate beer still sucks" on it and you talk about how you're trying to do right by the community, etc. that sets an expectation. You can't say the beer equivalent of "fight the power" and then go work for "the power" and expect people to ignore the hypocrisy.

 

[Pilgarlic]

Except the expectations seemed quite realistic with Elysian. When your beer literally says "Corporate beer still sucks" on it and you talk about how you're trying to do right by the community, etc. that sets an expectation. You can't say the beer equivalent of "fight the power" and then go work for "the power" and expect people to ignore the hypocrisy.

Not wanting to shatter any illusions, here, but "Corporate Beer Still Sucks" is commercial speech: an advertising/branding/marketing slogan. It's there, along with the whole anti-beer establishment vibe, because it sells beer. If it hadn't sold beer, it would have gone away. Call advertising slogans and marketing positioning hypocritical if you like, but you're tilting at windmills.

 

[David_Trucks]

Funny story. I went to the store today and perused the beer aisle. While walking by the BMC section, I saw that somebody (perhaps coincidentally, but I'd like to think not) had placed a 6 pack each of 10 barrel and Elysian Loser in the middle of the Bud cases. Gave me a chuckle.

 

[Silentdrinker]

Funny story. I went to the store today and perused the beer aisle. While walking by the BMC section, I saw that somebody (perhaps coincidentally, but I'd like to think not) had placed a 6 pack each of 10 barrel and Elysian Loser in the middle of the Bud cases. Gave me a chuckle.

I did that on purpose to send a message :fro:

We just got home from some club down town pdx (not my thing, but my fiancé is a hair stylist and one of the girls had a bday, and apparently they like loud clubs). guess what was on tap. Pabst, apocalypse ipa, loser. Guess they're right up there with bud and Coors now since that's all these places used to sell before InBev started buying craft breweries.

 

[Talgrath]

Not wanting to shatter any illusions, here, but "Corporate Beer Still Sucks" is commercial speech: an advertising/branding/marketing slogan. It's there, along with the whole anti-beer establishment vibe, because it sells beer. If it hadn't sold beer, it would have gone away. Call advertising slogans and marketing positioning hypocritical if you like, but you're tilting at windmills.

To be clear, it isn't just that slogan which is, yes, marketing. Elysian has, for years, talked about staying independent and local and about their pride in being a Seattle brewery; now they're not independent and admitting that eventually some of their beer will be brewed elsewhere. This didn't shatter some sort of naivety, but that also doesn't mean we shouldn't call them out on their hypocrisy.

 

[HoppyDaze]

Can't blame guys for cashing in on their hard work.

 

[cmoewes]

Can't blame guys for cashing in on their hard work.

Sure they can, that's what the internet is for

 

[bondra76]

Can't blame guys for cashing in on their hard work.

amen if I could sell any business for a couple million and retire, I wouldn't think twice