Another batch lost to infection

[Spivey24]

This is so frustrating - I lost another batch to infection. It was a house ipa I have brewed a hundred times. Over a year ago I lost a few batches in a row to some infection, and this is the same infection. I have had at least 30 good batches since then. It got in everything back then and I ended up sanitizing or replacing everything down to the beer lines. I am not sure what the infection is. It is characterized by:
- happens in the fermenter.
- beer that won’t clear even after gelatin fining and time.
- a chemical smell to the beer. My wife calls it formaldehyde smell, but I can’t compare it to anything, other than just unpleasant chemically. A guy at my lbs said it was a phenol smell.
- harsh bitter taste. I make ipas but this is more like high hop burn bitterness. I mean its not like spit out harshness, but definitely not pleasant. I have drank a glass of it in the past, but the smell is so off-putting
- gets worse with time even if refrigerated. i left one for a month last year and it did not get better, just worse.
- it doesn’t match the smell or description of any infection I have read about.

Since last year I have upped my cleaning with pbw and Starsan for everything every time. I clean the port valves with a brush and soak in Pbw. I just don’t know how the exact same infection came back. I use adjusted RO water, brew in a ported 15 gallon Anvil kettle, cool with drop in coil chiller, transfer to a clean ported stainless bucket fermenter through a short cleaned silicon hose, and ferment in a regulated freezer. I use a cleaned rubber stopper and air lock. I gelatin fined this time but did not dry hop.

It just sucks to lose a batch and I don’t want to lose more, so what is it and what can I do.

 

[SouthForkBrew]

It's never a good day when you lose a batch. What it sounds like your describing is a phenolic flavor in your beer. Some people get clove, medicinal, or other chemical notes depending on the phenol present. Your process looks solid, so maybe it would help to know the biggest sources of phenolic off flavors.

Smoked or Peat Malts - I assume you didn't use peated malt in your IPA?

Ferulic Acid - Present mostly in wheat malts, but some barley varieties also have higher concentrations. This acid is decarboxylated by yeast to produce 4-Vynil Guaiacol, a phenol that smells spicy or clove-like. Long mash rests in the 113 range can increase concentrations of Ferulic Acid and thereby create more phenols during fermentation. Sparging at too high a temp can have the same effect as well.

Chlorine Compounds - These compounds come from municipally treated water and are present in most tap water. They combine with polyphenols in beer to create Chlorophenol, which has notes of mouthwash or antiseptics. Most municipalities use Chlorine and Chloramine in their treatment systems. They will also change those levels periodically so that could explain why your issue comes and goes. Chlorine can be evaporated out of the water with an overnight rest, or by boiling. Chloramine on the other hand must be treated with Sodium Metabisulfite (Campden) Tablets. You could also start with R/O or distilled water with added salts to avoid this.

Brettanomyces Infection - Wild yeast that occurs naturally in the air. Produces the phenol 4-ethylphenol which has a funky, farmhouse, barnyard smell and flavor. Some people describe it as medicinal as well. Brett can hang around in brewing systems for long periods of time once it's introduced, either on purpose or accident. It is a real pain to chase down as well. We chased a brett infection at my brewery for weeks and eventually narrowed it down to a single bin where we kept valves and other parts not draining properly. From what you've described, you are doing all of the right things on the sanitation side. With a Brettanomyces bug, you've got to think creatively sometimes. Particular points to look would be anything plastic, cork, or wood that comes into contact with wort, vinyl or rubber gaskets, storage containers, pumps, and brushes/steel wool.

If I had to put money on it, my guess would be the issue of Chlorine compounds in the water but I could be wrong. It could totally be a Brett infection that just refuses to surrender. I hope any of this helps!

 

[shetc]

I hit all the cold side equipment with an iodine based no-rinse sanitizer. Haven't had an infected batch since switching to that regime.

 

[Spivey24]

I hit all the cold side equipment with an iodine based no-rinse sanitizer. Haven't had an infected batch since switching to that regime.

Isn’t that stuff very messy?

 

[Spivey24]

It's never a good day when you lose a batch. What it sounds like your describing is a phenolic flavor in your beer. Some people get clove, medicinal, or other chemical notes depending on the phenol present. Your process looks solid, so maybe it would help to know the biggest sources of phenolic off flavors.

I have read everything I can find on phenol flavors and infections and nothing seems to match. I highly doubt chlorine as I only use RO water and I have had many batches without a trace of phenol flavors. Maybe I discovered a new bug. Ugh

 

[shetc]

Isn’t that stuff very messy?

Not really. It doesn't last long so I make like 10 oz on brewday, and put it in a dedicated spray bottle. It's dedicated because the plastic is discolored from the iodine. Spritz all the cold side equipment, let it work for a minute then knock out the wort to the fermenter.

 

[Brewski_59]

I agree with shetc. If you have something that is somehow surviving your current sanitizing solution, switching to something else such as IO star, (or whatever iodopher you can find) can help. I purchased a small container of IOstar just for this purpose. To switch up occasionally in case I'm training something to be resistant to Star San.
Is it possible your serving lines are dirty or contaminated? You mention cleaning and sanitizing everything up to the fermenter, but then nothing about packaging or serving.

 

[Spivey24]

I agree with shetc. If you have something that is somehow surviving your current sanitizing solution, switching to something else such as IO star, (or whatever iodopher you can find) can help. I purchased a small container of IOstar just for this purpose. To switch up occasionally in case I'm training something to be resistant to Star San.
Is it possible your serving lines are dirty or contaminated? You mention cleaning and sanitizing everything up to the fermenter, but then nothing about packaging or serving.

Yea I think I will pick up some IOStar and add that to the routine.

Kegs and serving lines are fine. Last time I did not know it was an infection and kegged it. Once I did that it got in the vinyl keg lines I was using and contaminated kegs post fermentation. This time, I caught it before kegging. I always pour a small glass straight from the fermenter and drink it before kegging now days.

 

[monkeymath]

That really stinks! Have you replaced all plastic and rubber parts?
When I had an infection two years ago, I relied on heat (boiling water) to do the killing; seems more reliable to me. In particular, I think it depends less on the structure of the surface.

Ferulic Acid - Present mostly in wheat malts, but some barley varieties also have higher concentrations. This acid is decarboxylated by yeast to produce 4-Vynil Guaiacol, a phenol that smells spicy or clove-like. Long mash rests in the 113 range can increase concentrations of Ferulic Acid and thereby create more phenols during fermentation. Sparging at too high a temp can have the same effect as well.

First off, the yeast he's using for his IPA is probably POF-, so it is incapable of producing 4VG. Second, even with 50% wheat and a Hefeweizen strain, I don't think you'd ever pick up such a strong "chemical" smell from the phenols produced by a healthy sacch fermentation.

 

[SanJuanWorm]

I had a small problem with a ‘chemical’ smell/flavour a while back, and I realized the lines were not food-grade. Didn’t get an infection, but the smell/taste was so bad I had to dump it. Just my 2c. Good luck.

 

[seatazzz]

It's a long shot, but how much yeast are you pitching for a batch? If liquid, are you using a starter? Not expired? Autolysed (dead) or stressed yeast can throw off some nasty phenolics as well. It can be caused by either overpitching (not enough sugar for the yeast to eat, so some of them die), or underpitching (too much competition for edible sugar before they start multiplying, so some die, unless you're using kveik). Also pitching into too-hot wort, but from your post it looks like you have that in hand.

 

[brewdude88]

I got into baking sourdough bread a few years ago, and got some interesting beers before realizing I was exponentially multiplying and spreading the microbes that I don't want in my beer all over the kitchen! The first thing I tried was a switch from starsan to iodophor, not one infection since. Whatever the starsan wasn't getting, the iodophor seems to anhialate. The only down side is discolored plastics and a longer contact time requirement.

 

[hotbeer]

I'd think infection would be a sour or tangy taste. Maybe it's just a bad beer for other reasons you don't like the taste of.

If that's the case then all your cleaning and sanitizing is only keeping you from finding the real reason for your bad beer.

Depending on the IPA, some are are going to be cloudy or hazy if you are brewing per the style guide.

 

[Immocles]

This is so frustrating - I lost another batch to infection. It was a house ipa I have brewed a hundred times. Over a year ago I lost a few batches in a row to some infection, and this is the same infection. I have had at least 30 good batches since then. It got in everything back then and I ended up sanitizing or replacing everything down to the beer lines. I am not sure what the infection is. It is characterized by:
- happens in the fermenter.
- beer that won’t clear even after gelatin fining and time.
- a chemical smell to the beer. My wife calls it formaldehyde smell, but I can’t compare it to anything, other than just unpleasant chemically. A guy at my lbs said it was a phenol smell.
- harsh bitter taste. I make ipas but this is more like high hop burn bitterness. I mean its not like spit out harshness, but definitely not pleasant. I have drank a glass of it in the past, but the smell is so off-putting
- gets worse with time even if refrigerated. i left one for a month last year and it did not get better, just worse.
- it doesn’t match the smell or description of any infection I have read about.

Since last year I have upped my cleaning with pbw and Starsan for everything every time. I clean the port valves with a brush and soak in Pbw. I just don’t know how the exact same infection came back. I use adjusted RO water, brew in a ported 15 gallon Anvil kettle, cool with drop in coil chiller, transfer to a clean ported stainless bucket fermenter through a short cleaned silicon hose, and ferment in a regulated freezer. I use a cleaned rubber stopper and air lock. I gelatin fined this time but did not dry hop.

It just sucks to lose a batch and I don’t want to lose more, so what is it and what can I do.

I think I have ran across something very similar by the sounds of your description. I didn't see anything suspect in the fermenter though, but I did have that chemically smell (and taste) that refused to clear up. I'm not sure if mine got worse in the fridge, but it 100% did NOT get better and I left a few bottles cold for 2-3 months out of curiosity. It may not be your case, but I believe mine came from repitching slurry. Could have been my sanitizing and handling of the yeast jars, the time stored, or the stress on the yeast from the initial fermentation. But I have not run across it again after switching to fresh/dry yeast.

 

[Joggin]

If you ferment in a bottling bucket, make sure to take off the spicket and clean it out completely. I got an infection couple times when starting out and overlooking this.