An idea for boosting apple flavor

[jnesselrode]

I posted this in another thread but didn't get much traction, so I thought I'd start a new thread and get folks thoughts:

I was noodling things over today and had a thought. Seems a lot of us want that apple flavor to come through, me included, and talk about adding things to get it. Of course unfermented cider comes to mind, but that's dilutive to the alcohol that we also want. So....

Maybe add sugar to your cider to get up to around 1.100 for a potential alcohol of 12% and ferment it dry. Then add an equal volume of unfermented cider or juice which would dilute it to a more normal cider level of 6% but with a healthy dose of apple flavor? Of course that would kick up the sweetness a bit but that could be balanced with some acid and/or tannin additions if needed. Could also facilitate bottle carbonation.

There might be some scientists/mathematicians that could blow a hole in my math, but the concept seems to make sense to me.

Thoughts?

 

[JohnSand]

Mix when you're ready to drink, like a cocktail? I'm sure it would work. I haven't added sugar to cider, though I have read recipes that do.

 

[jnesselrode]

Mix when you're ready to drink, like a cocktail? I'm sure it would work. I haven't added sugar to cider, though I have read recipes that do.

Yeah, that makes sense and I’ve done that a time or two.

Kinda trying to end up with ready to go, with normal alcohol level and perhaps carbonation. Pop and pour without having to add anything when it’s time to drink.

 

[Raptor99]

I think that making a 12% ABV cider and then adding 50% apple juice could work. You would need to stabilize or pasturize it so that fermentation did not restart. If the added juice fully ferments, the final ABV would be around 9%. If you want to partially ferment the added juice, you wlll need to pasturize. The cider would probably be cloudy, If you go this route, I suggest that you exeriment with the percentages to get the sweetness level that you want.

So far I have made hard cider only from grocery store apple juice. I have tried a number of things to bring out the apple flavor:
* Get the best tasting apple juice that I can, preferably a blend of sweet and tart apples.
* Adjust the acidity, using part acid blend and part malic acid. Malic acid is the main acid in apples, so it enhances the apple flavor. This really makes a difference.
* Add some tannins and/or oak as necessary to provide the tannins missing from eating apples.
* Use a yeast strain that will preserve/enhance the flavor of the apples. I like MJ M-02 and D47.
* Ferment at a lower temperature to help preserve the apple flavors. I usually ferment around 65 degrees F, but some yeasts will work at even lower temperatures.
* Back sweeten a little before bottling to bring out the apple flavor.

 

[Chalkyt]

I was watching your other post with interest. Good to see you are getting some replies to this one.

I think you can do what you want but it is may be a bit more complex than the “simple” solutions suggest. It sounds as though you need a non-fermentable “apple flavoured syrup”.

My take on extracting such a syrup from a typical OG 1.050 cider is that when the cider is fermented it comprises two elements, 6% alcohol (at SG 0.790) and 94% water containing non-fermentable apple flavour compounds (at SG 1.014). With fully fermented cider the combined SG is 1.000.

In order to add apple flavour to cider, you need the water containing the flavour compounds and not the alcohol (or perhaps just a little bit). Maybe even a concentrated syrup would work, a bit like ice cider or AJC but without the sugar and alcohol.

The sugar in cider will ferment away into a bit less than 50% alcohol and 50% C02 (more details about this in the attachment). The C02 goes away into the atmosphere, leaving alcohol in the cider. Getting rid of much of the alcohol seems possible since there seems to be a fair bit of information on Google about boiling it off by heating an alcoholic beverage above the ethanol boiling point of around 80C.

So at least in theory, it is possible to extract an “apple flavour” syrup out of cider to then add to another cider in order to enhance the second cider's flavour. Of course, to keep the overall alcohol level at around 7%, you may need a bit of alcohol left in the syrup otherwise the alcohol in the original cider would be diluted (leaving some alcohol in the syrup shouldn’t be a problem since it appears to be difficult to get rid of all the alcohol by boiling).

The flavour compounds in apple juice are non-fermentable and remain at the same level even during fermentation. Heating to remove alcohol may introduce a cooked flavour but this may not be a bad thing. The option of adding sugar up to SG 1.100 would only increase the potential alcohol and C02, and not the amount of flavour compounds.

Attached is some detailed information about how flavour develops during fermentation which might give you some ideas. I hope it helps you find a way to enhance your ciders.

Enjoy the journey and keep us posted.

Cheers!

 

[madscientist451]

To get more apple flavor, I add frozen apple juice concentrate from Walmart. After fermentation and aging, I transfer some of the cider to a 1.5 L wine bottle and add about 200 ml of the concentrate. Add more or less to taste, and keep the bottle in the fridge to suppress yeast growth. The yeast will eventually start to kick off, but I usually drink the bottle with a week so it’s not noticeable. Sometimes I make my own concentrate by boiling down homemade apple juice, but it’s way easier to just buy it.

 

[madgardener]

I have used an approach similar to what Madscientist451 described for boosting the apple flavor in wine and to give it a better body. After my ferment is done, I transfer to a clean secondary, stabilize the batch, let it sit for a day or two and add thawed unsweetened apple juice concentrate ( about 12 oz. to a gal) . Let it sit for several days to make sure it doesn't start fermenting again and bottle it.

 

[jnesselrode]

Thanks for the replies.

As I think about it it seems the more simple solution of adding frozen concentrate may be the best option. And with that approach in my small one-gallon experimental batches I don't have a lot on the line if it goes south. My intention is to carbonate, so the additional sugar is needed.

 

[tracer bullet]

Sometimes I make my own concentrate by boiling down homemade apple juice, but it’s way easier to just buy it.

Indeed that would seem to be the easier path. I did wonder about boiling all of it though. It adds a step, a big one perhaps that's not usually part of cider making? As a beer brewer though I'm quite used to it. Seems like you could boil for say an hour (time dependent on initial volume of course), make the whole thing a little more concentrated, and then get the stronger flavor?

 

[JoshuaWhite5522]

+1 for the frozen concentrate method.

i have a friend that boils down fresh cider and his ciders taste good. I've noticed that it does leave his a little cloudy, if that matters. I'm guessing it's some pectin haze from the fresh juice. He also adds the boiled concentrate directly to his keg before it cools as he claims it keeps it sterile.