Altbier! What do you think?

[rhys333]

Hey everyone,

I have one last jar of Wyeast 1275 slurry sitting in the fridge and wanted to try something different. Reading through the WY website I see 1275 is recommended for Altbier. Haven't tried it before, so what the heck?

I'd appreciate your thoughts on a recipe I put together. Using ingredients I already have I decided to go with the Dusseldorf style, heavy on munich, light on crystal and a touch of chocolate for colour. I'm doing single infusion but included some melanoidin to simulate decoction. Hop selection at the LHBS is a little scant this time of year, so I'll use what I can get... something German-ish. Anyway, let me know what you think!

DUSSELDORF ALTBIER
60% German Munich (maybe 2/3 light, 1/3 dark)
30.5% Pale 2 Row
4% Melanoidin
4% C40
1.5% Chocolate
Warrior @ 60 to ~25 IBU
Saaz or Spalt @ 20 & 0 (40 IBUs total)
WY 1275 Thames Valley (149F mash)

 

[passedpawn]

Hey everyone,

I have one last jar of Wyeast 1275 slurry sitting in the fridge and wanted to try something different. Reading through the WY website I see 1275 is recommended for Altbier. Haven't tried it before, so what the heck?

I'd appreciate your thoughts on a recipe I put together. Using ingredients I already have I decided to go with the Dusseldorf style, heavy on munich, light on crystal and a touch of chocolate for colour. I'm doing single infusion but included some melanoidin to simulate decoction. Hop selection at the LHBS is a little scant this time of year, so I'll use what I can get... something German-ish. Anyway, let me know what you think!

DUSSELDORF ALTBIER
60% German Munich (maybe 2/3 light, 1/3 dark)
30.5% Pale 2 Row
4% Melanoidin
4% C40
1.5% Chocolate
Warrior @ 60 to ~25 IBU
Saaz or Spalt @ 20 & 0 (40 IBUs total)
WY 1275 Thames Valley (149F mash)

No decoction at the altbier brewery I visited. They do several temperature rests, but the wort is never removed and boiled separately. If you read the text in the first post at the link below, you'll see what I learned from their brewer. OTOH, Gavin_C recently made an altbier with the melanoiden malt and apparently it turned out well.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=282538&highlight=dusseldorf

 

[dmtaylor]

Interesting recipe. I haven't heard of the 1275 being used for this, but what the heck, why not. It will make a tasty beer anyway. If you want to keep this more authentic, I'd ditch the Warrior hops at 60 and instead use something German-ish for all hop additions (personally I'd use Hallertau or Mt. Hood).

 

[passedpawn]

I also think that's way too much munich for an altbier.

 

[dmtaylor]

Is there such thing as "too much Munich"?! :rockin:

 

[passedpawn]

Is there such thing as "too much Munich"?! :rockin:

For the style, sure. It's a dunkel he's making there.

 

[Gavin C]

The grain-bill I used for my Alt. I was happy with it.

Step mash with single decoction.

Spalter hops

WLP036 fermented cool

 

[Hanglow]

Yeah, its far too much . Uerige is something like 96% pils, 2.5% cara, 1.5% chocolate wheat, hopped at 5g/l

It's pretty much the german version of brown bitter

 

[rhys333]

Thanks for the replies guys. Perhaps I drop the melanoidin. Interesting about the munich percentages. Reading up on this yesterday I found a couple sources recommending mostly Pils, but more were calling for mostly Munich. It could just be the munich-heavy versions stood out as more interesting to me.

 

[dmtaylor]

Hmm... later tonight I'll look up the percentages on my version that scored 43 and 46 in competition.... I believe it was someplace around 30-40% Munich, something like that, with the rest pilsner. But I do stand by my previous statement.... such thing as too much Munich??

I struggle to understand the difference between dunkles and altbier as well. They're pretty close. Maybe alts are a little more bitter, and dunkles a little more Munich. But if you tasted them blind...... might not be able to taste much difference. Kind of like the difference between some porters and stouts. One guy's porter is another guy's stout, he says po-tay-to, she says po-tah-to......

 

[solbes]

I've made three with WY2625 Kolsch yeast, and liked all of them. This is what my third batch evolved to and I will repeat again some day.

5 lbs Pils
5 lbs Vienna (had it around and it was good)
1 lb Dark Munich
8 oz Caramunich I
2 oz chocolate as late mash addition (mainly for color, only light flavor addition)

1 oz Tradition FWH
1 oz of Spalt and Tettnang each, fractions added at 20 min, 5 min, and flameout
40 IBU est

1.052 OG, 1.009 FG, 5.6% ABV

Certainly respect the post above (nice scores!!). But I would say Dunkels should be very malty and at least the Dusseldorf version of Alt should have a pretty firm noble hop presence. Mine came out very different. .02

 

[Gavin C]

There is a very wide range in approaches to an Alt as I discoved while researching for my own version. Kaiser's Alt is an example where mostly a Munich grist is used.

89% light Munich
10% Caramunich I
1% Carafa II special

He uses a double decoction and a protein rest (may have been using undermodified malts I don't know)

 

[rhys333]

That'd be great dmtaylor - interested to know what you went with. Based on collective input I'm considering lowering the munich to 50% of grist. It strikes me that the style is described as both malty and bitter without being sweet. I'd like something like this to stand out against my pale ales.

 

[dmtaylor]

There is a very wide range in approaches to an Alt as I discoved while researching for my own version.

Ditto. My exact percentage (when I find out what it is) was based on an average of like 6 or 7 award-winning recipes, which ranged from zero to like 80% Munich. (So then I'm not shocked when mine won awards too.)

 

[dmtaylor]

Okay.... my Zweiflussener Altbier:

60% German Pilsner malt
21% German Munich
10% American 2-row (could/should have used German Pilsner)
4% rye malt
2.5% CaraMunich
1.3% German Chocolate Wheat
1.3% German Carafa III
Hallertau for bittering
Spalt for flavor
Wyeast 1007

Mash at 152 F for an hour. Boil at least 90 minutes (I did 105 -- not sure why, maybe was distracted). Yummy. The rye adds no flavor but the head is enormous.

 

[meatcleaver]

I did this
45% 2-row
45% Munich
10% Caramunich II
Perle for bittering
Hersbrucker for aroma
& I used s-05 but there are better alternatives...
shoot for an OG of 1:052-1:054, FG of 1.009 or so
IBU's right around 35
It's easy & its good

 

[JKaranka]

Hmm... later tonight I'll look up the percentages on my version that scored 43 and 46 in competition.... I believe it was someplace around 30-40% Munich, something like that, with the rest pilsner. But I do stand by my previous statement.... such thing as too much Munich??

I struggle to understand the difference between dunkles and altbier as well. They're pretty close. Maybe alts are a little more bitter, and dunkles a little more Munich. But if you tasted them blind...... might not be able to taste much difference. Kind of like the difference between some porters and stouts. One guy's porter is another guy's stout, he says po-tay-to, she says po-tah-to......

When visiting Germany Alt and Dunkel are my favourite styles. Alt is a clean German bitter. Dunkel is a strong dark mild. The Alt is more bitter and can have hop flavour as well as esters. The Dunkel is less dry and often has more complex malt profile.

 

[Hanglow]

I can't see past the kellerbier of franconia when I go to germany myself alt is fine but it's of its place, there is no way I'm making one myself.

 

[rhys333]

I found Crooked Coast Altbier by Driftwood Brewery at the liquor store. They had this North American version and a german one, but they figured this was closer to style with prominent Munich Malt and noble hops, whereas the German one was a more contemporary interpretation. No IBU info on the bottle, but they tell me its quite assertive. Anyway, just thought I'd give this a try as I start my own exploration.

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