All Grain...I'm Afraid..

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MyCarHasAbs

MyCarHasAbs

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I just ordered my first all grain kit and after doing some additional reading, I'm afraid I may not be ready for it. It sounds more complicated than extract brewing. I can't find any threads detailing the mash process. What's involved that takes 4-5 hours??
 
Yes, allgrain brewing might sound complicated, but it's not that much.

Maybe you could start with the BIAB (brew-in-a-bag) method? It's the simplest method by far to do all-grain, and it's not a huge step from extract + steeping grain. Look around Youtube, some people there made videos about a typical BIAB brew day.

Brewing beer is about as complicated as you want it to be.
 
MyCarHasAbs said:
I just ordered my first all grain kit and after doing some additional reading, I'm afraid I may not be ready for it. It sounds more complicated than extract brewing. I can't find any threads detailing the mash process. What's involved that takes 4-5 hours??
Click to expand...


Go online and find " how to brew" by Palmer. There is an online version of the book.

The 4-5 hrs is going to be the mash, and steps in the mash, sparging and boil

Relax, it's nothing more than a longer steep like you did as an extract brewer. Most critical is maintaining the temperature during the mash. Welcome to AG
 
It's really easy. All you really need is a 60 minute rest at 150-155f. I batch sparge. I heat the stike and crush the grains in less than a half hour, an hour saccharification rest, drain the first runnings maybe 15 minutes and another 15 to drain the second runnings. Couple of hours is all. Sure you can make it more complicated but it's not necessary.
 
It's a blast. Ya gotta do it. I'm like the village idiot and I made it through. LOADS of fun. I just can't get my d4mn bottles to carbonate. But other than that, it's awesome.
 
Hey there is no need to be afraid! The all grain process is just more detailed...what I did is went on YouTube and searched all grain brewing. There are TONS of videos on how to do it.

What takes longer with all grain from what I've read and seen is getting the water to strike temps and getting sparge water to temps.

You also have to make sure you have the right equipment. You can either have a dedicated mash tun or do brew in a bag...which sounds like might be a good option for you.

Basically, you'll need a mesh bag that can hold your grain in the pot and hold the temps for however long you need to mash. You can grab paint strainer bags from your local hardware store or if you want you can contact one of our members Wilsonbrewer who custom makes them according to size.

Once you mash the grist (grain) the process is the same as extract...boil the wort add your hops at designated times and then transfer to a fermentor.

Don't be scared! Grab the bull by the horns and make some delicious beer!
 
Mashing doesn't normally take 4-5 hours. It does take extra time, but only an extra couple hours. If an extract batch takes 2-3 hours start to finish, an all grain batch takes 4-5 hours start to finish.

Basically, instead of heating roughly 2-3 gallons of water and steeping some specialty malts roughly 150-160 for 20-30 minutes, you're selecting a specific water to grain ratio (1.3-1.7 quarts per pound is where I usually am depending on beer), and heating it to a very specific temperature so that it mixes with the grain to leave the mash at a very specific temperature (usually in the 147-158 range depending on the beer). Brewing software is enormously helpful to get the right temperature for your strike water to hit your correct mash temperature. And then instead of 30 minutes, you're going for 60-90 minutes. And then after that you rinse the grain bed (sparging).

Like mentioned above, going BIAB there's really not much difference between that and steeping grains, just a bigger grain bag and paying more attention to temperature. And then if you have a second kettle you can heat a few gallons of water to 170-175, remove the grain bag after the mash, dunk it in your second kettle and stir a bit to sparge it, combine the two kettles, and you're good to go.

That's the process. If you already do full boils, you should already know the amount of wort you need pre-boil to hit your batch volume, so it's just a matter of making sure that you the mash and sparge volumes right to hit that volume. Which you'll be able to dial in over a few batches.

It's really not all that difficult. More variables and more room for error, sure, but it's not as hard as people make it seem like.
 
MyCarHasAbs said:
I just ordered my first all grain kit and after doing some additional reading, I'm afraid I may not be ready for it. It sounds more complicated than extract brewing. I can't find any threads detailing the mash process. What's involved that takes 4-5 hours??
Click to expand...

Look up BIAB as others have suggested. Or batch sparge, which is also plenty easy. Don't be intimidated by the uber-scientific words. All-grain brewing is intimidating because for years I think many home brewer's wanted to give it that impression. You're just mixing water with crushed grains at a specific temperature and waiting an hour. Then you're draining water and adding more hot water to rinse the sugars from the grain.

Hot Liquor = Hot Water
Sparge = Rinse
Rack = Transfer
Pitch = Put into

...and so forth. For every complicated-sounding word or phrase there's an easy-to-understand synonym. (not saying this is what's keeping you back, just letting you and others who may be intimidated to know that they need not be).

It DOES take more time than extract brewing, but most of that time is actually sitting around during the mash or cleaning/sanitizing equipment.
 
BrewinBromanite said:
How big of a batch are you making, and what equipment do you have?


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Click to expand...

6 gal pot, stir paddle, plastic car barboy, primary pale, siphon pale, bottle wand, couple thermometers, plastic tubes for transfer, wine thief. Sounds like I need to go out to MYHBS and buy some more mesh bags.
 
Malticulous said:
It's really easy. All you really need is a 60 minute rest at 150-155f. I batch sparge. I heat the stike and crush the grains in less than a half hour, an hour saccharification rest, drain the first runnings maybe 15 minutes and another 15 to drain the second runnings. Couple of hours is all. Sure you can make it more complicated but it's not necessary.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming you were trying to be funny - because all of those terms would not be at all understood by someone new to all-grain... :confused:
 
Mashing is really pretty simple. Go to the Brewers Friend mash infusion and rest schedule calculator here: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/

Enter the amount of grain that you will be mashing, along with a few other pieces of information. That will tell you at what temperature your strike water will need to be as well as how much strike water you'll need for mashing. I've always used a water to grain ratio of 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grain.

Mash in, wait for about 60 minutes, then sparge with about 170-180 degree water.

Mashing will take about an hour. Sparging will take about that long as well.

No muss, no fuss... easy peasy.
 
Just to clarify I bought two all grain kits from Midwest Supplies. I'm presuming it comes with directions and they don't just assume you know what to do with the ingredients.

Sounds like I just need to watch a few vids. Cause I have no idea what sparging or striking means.


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_____________________________
I once dated a girl who told me I will not drink beer in front of our children. I dumped her the next day.
 
I bought a video when I started brewing on all grain brewing (this was pre-YouTube). It looked complicated as hell. A couple years later, I watched it again and realized it really isn't that complicated. There are are just a bunch of little steps to keep track of.

If you have steeped specialty grains, you're basically half way there. Mashing is more-or-less the same thing but on a bigger scale and with extra things to keep track of.

If you haven't already built a mash tun, then BIAB is definitely the way to go.

Watch a couple videos. Script out your brewday in advance so you can make sure you don't miss anything.

Mash = soak grains at a specific temperature at a specific ratio of water to grain.
Strike water = the water you initially heat up for your mash
Dough-in = add grains to the strike water
Mash-out = (usually raise temperature to 168F and) drain the water out of the mash or for BIAB: pull the bag from the mash water.
Runnings = mash water (wort) drained from the mash. If you BIAB and don't have a valve on your kettle, you don't have to worry about runnings.
Sparge = rinsing sugar from the grain in the mash. Can be as complicated or as simple as you want it to be. You can even no-sparge by using all the water you intend to use in the brew during the mash. It's fairly common when doing BIAB.
 
MyCarHasAbs said:
Just to clarify I bought two all grain kits from Midwest Supplies. I'm presuming it comes with directions and they don't just assume you know what to do with the ingredients.

Sounds like I just need to watch a few vids. Cause I have no idea what sparging or striking means.


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_____________________________
I once dated a girl who told me I will not drink beer in front of our children. I dumped her the next day.
Click to expand...




That's what I was getting at with the others, the instructions should be fine. Don't contemplate it and you will be fine. Read up on the "how to brew"

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/index.html

PS sparging is the act of taking some fresh water heated to Aprox 168- 175 degF and allowing it to flow into your grain bed, thus pulling remaining sugars (sweet liquor) out of your grain.

Striking is the first initial amount of water you will add to your grain, strike water. Strike temperature is the temperature of that water, witch is influenced by the grain and mash tun temperature.
 
You might also pick up a couple pounds of light dry malt extract, which you can add at the last minute if your pre-boil gravity is too low – if you don't end up using it on brew day, it's not too expensive and it keeps for a long time.

Edit: don't be afraid! You can choose to do all sorts of things to make it complicated – build a mash tun, play with protein rests and decoction and mash-outs, etc, etc – but brew-in-a-bag really is just what you're already doing, on a slightly larger scale, and just a little more attention to detail on water quantities and temperature. If you can steep grains, measure volumes of water, and read a thermometer, you can do all-grain in a bag.
 
I think everyone is nervous their first time doing an AG brew. Once you do one, you will find it's not much more difficult, just a couple extra steps that takes a couple extra hours. As was mentioned, the most critical thing is the ability to hold your mash temps. Once I made the switch earlier this year I've never looked back, and have done about 15 AG brews over the last 7-8 months. The thing with AG is it allows you so much more flexibility in the finished process. Look around on the internet, lots of mashing videos on YouTube. Go for it, you'll love it!
 
I wouldn't worry. I've seen into the future and this all works out relatively ok!
I did my first AG 5-6 weeks ago, the beer is drinkable and I have tweaked the process over my next few brew days and will continue to do so.
My advice is just jump on in after a bit of reading, and start with BIAB.
Best of luck.
 
Do you even have a MLT?

Here is a walk through my process:

First thing I need to figure is the amount of strike water. I use 14 qt (half the boil volume) plus grain absorption and dead space (my MLT/mash tun has no dead space.) This comes out to around 2qt/lb for normal gravity beers. Thinner than most seem to use but works for me. Grain absorption is often calculated at .12 gallons per pound. My system comes closer to .1 if I let drain it completely.

I need to heat the strike about 20F hotter than the desired rest temp. Put the strike in the MLT and let is sit untll it is the correct temp. My mash tun will cool it down about 10F. When it is at the calculated strike temp (http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml) I add in the grains and stir until there are no more dough balls. By then it is at the rest temp. It sits in my MLT (a Coleman xteme 70 qt cooler) for an hour.

As it sits I heat my sparge water to 180 or so in a differnt kettle (but on the same burner.) This is half the boil volume (14 qts.)

After the hour is up and conversion is complete I open the drain valve and drain a quart or so into a small pan. I dump that back into the MLT (vorlauf) and then let the first runnings into my kettle. After the mash has drained I add the sparge water to the MLT, stir it well vorlauf again and let it drain into the boil kettle too. I have the flame on the whole time and it close to boiling already.

No mash out is necessary. It's simple and I consistently get around 85% efficiency this way.

I don't know about your equipment but you likely will have to use a smaller boil volume. I have a 60 qt kettle and boil off 1.75 gallons in a hour. If you don't have a MLT you probably should learn about BIAB.
 
Ok so I just watched this video (30 minutes)

and one thing I quite clear to me, I need a mash ton. I'm assuming Midwest Supplies carries this. In addition, correct me if I got the steps wrong..

1. Heat water to certain temperature
2. Pour grains in (this includes the malt and the other grains that would have been steeped in for extract brewing)
3. Stir the grains in slowly
4. Let the 'mash' sit for about an hour and begin extracting the sugars (after carefully cycling the first few extracts to let the grains settle out).
5. Every so often when the top of the mash becomes 'dry-ish', sparge with hot water.
6. Once you've achieved the desired amount of extract and wert, bring the wert to a boil and carry on as you would with extract brewing.

Did I miss anything? If not, looks like I need to order a mash ton.


If anyone else knows where I can get an entry level mash ton instead of shelling out $75 for...

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/cooler-kit-basic-gott-rubbermaid-conversion-kit-brass-no-barb.html

and this..

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/rubbermaid-cooler-5-gallon.html

could it be done without a mash tun?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You don't need a mash tun if you do your all grain with BIAB. It's simpler than three vessel, and you can always switch to three vessel later after you get some experience with AG (if you even want to at that point.) With BIAB you mash in your BK. If your BK is large enough, you can do no sparge BIAB, which is the simplest way to transition to all grain. If your BK is too small to hold the grain + full volume of water, you can do either a batch sparge by dunking the bag in a bucket of water, or a pour sparge by just pouring water over the bag while it is suspended above the BK. The sparge water does not even have to be hot.

Start simple, then get more complicated if you are not satisfied with the simpler way. All of the BIAB equipment can be used in a three vessel system, so you don't end up rebuying anything. Some people even use the bag in a traditional mash tun instead of a drain manifold.

Lots of info on HBT about BIAB and lots of Youtube vids as well.

Brew on :mug:
 
Hmm, I may watch a video on BIAB. I'm a visual learner. After watching that video I feel pretty comfortable about giving it a go, it's just the price tag attached to it haha.
 
Not to be harsh, but you are correct that you are not ready for all grain. This can be changed in a few hours of reading and watching videos.

There are basically 3 types of all grain with some other variations.

One is BIAB where you put the grains in a mesh bag. Mash for the indicated amount of time then remove them, sparge if necessary then go to the boil which is what you have been doing with extracts.

Two is Batch Sparging. You do the mash for the indicated time, then drain the mash tun. Add ~170 degree water to rinse the rest of the sugars out of the grain. This can be done in one addition or more until you have enough wort for your boil.

Third is fly sparging. Here you do the mash, do a mashout by raising the grain bed temperature to about 170 degrees for 10 minutes. Then drain the tun, sparge by filling the tun to an inch above the grain. Then you need to adjust the sparge so that it drains slowly while adding about 170 degree water at the same rate. The water level should stay above the grain and it should take between 45 minutes and an hour to drain.

Biab takes the least amount of equipment, batch sparging and fly sparging take more and each requires slightly different equipment.

I have done biab and dislike it because it can be a hot, heavy, sticky mess. I do batch sparging because it takes less time and is a little easier than fly sparging. I made that decision when I was purchasing equipment.

As the mash tun, there is a thread here somewhere on DIYing your own tun. You can save a fair bit if you assemble your own.
 
kh54s10 said:
Not to be harsh, but you are correct that you are not ready for all grain. This can be changed in a few hours of reading and watching videos.
Click to expand...

Well, like I mentioned..I'm a visual learner. I learn by watching and doing. Not by reading. I could read an entire book as thick as a George RR Martin novel about brewing beer and still brew like crap. I need to see it in action.
 
I also just made the transition from extract+grains to all-grain. My physiotherapist recommended BIAB (he's a homebrewer - you get to chat a lot in these situations!) and I gave it a go and well its no more complicated than doing the specialist grains with an extract. The other thing that convinced me was making an extract recipe from Charlie Papazian's book (Top Drop Pilsener) which had multiple temperature stages, sparging and the rest and I thought 'I might as well be just doing all-grain here!'. The BIAB really is as easy as just holding the temperature at 150-155 or so for an hour. You don't have to sparge (I understand) but since I rigged up a dual-bucket 'lauter tun' for the Papazian recipe I just use that anyway. I find its about 5 hours from getting up off the couch, to flame out. Then another hour or two to cool things down to the right pitching temperature. All told, a brew day for me is about 8 hours, but that's a relaxed 8 hours for sure.

I just bottled my first all-grain (a clone recipe of one of my favorite beers from England, Wobbly Bob) done with the BIAB method and its going to be awesome. I can't see myself going back to extract any time soon.

Good luck!!!
 
So after watching a few vids on BIAB, I think I'm going to wait till my AG kits from MWS comes in and read the directions. If it sounds like they're on the more traditional method (based on the first vid I watched) I probably (to make things easier and less translation/conversion of technique) just invest in a mash tun or I'll find a DYI way of making one.

Oh, and to the guy above who said "not to be harsh but you're correct you're not ready" you do realize that ALL you're doing is lighting a fire under my ass to prove that statement wrong..right? :)
 
I brewed extract, then took a 15 year break, and once I came back I brewed nothing but all-grain, BIAB with a dunk sparge. During that fifteen year hiatus I picked up cooking, and many recipes I cook are pretty complicated... And I'd equate brewing to making dinner. Specific measurements, time, and lots of waiting, with a (hopefully) wonderful payoff at the end of the process. I read all of the threads and saw lots of people worrying over the complexity of it all, but quite honestly the very first batch I brewed I wondered to myself why some fret over all-grain. I enjoyed the challenge, and a few weeks ago I got to drink a few from the first batch.
 
This post, right here on our very own HBT, was what inspired my switch to AG. It hits all the main points clearly and succinctly.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/biab-brewing-pics-233289/

(And seriously, if you start watching/reading something that starts going into various rests and steps during the mash...it would be my advice to STOP watching/reading, because they are likely going into advanced methods not necessary for the AG acolyte.)
 
I watched a few more videos, both from John Palmer and BIAB vids. To me, the first video I posted..just talking purely on the process, made the most sense to me. I felt like it was very relatable, like I could easily set that system up in my kitchen with very little difficulty or intimidation. I think my issue with the BIAB is it looks like it could be a hot, heavy, sticky mess really quickly (not to mention the usage of the bag was very inconsistent among videos, I'm using a 6 gal kettle and I'm confident the bag would fit, maybe I'm not looking at the right vids). If you can believe it, I think I actually found the techniques for BIAB to be 'more' complicated.

I can't say I'm excited to spend more money on brewing at this point but I'd rather invest in good equipment that's going to last and is going to serve me well than get something that was built half assed and may fail on me. I'm also not much of a DIY kind of guy. I do have a learning disability that involves reading comprehension (hense why I learn best buy watching + listening and then doing) and I don't read those step by step DIY instructions very well. It creates a lot of room for me to fudge something up. I'll browse around the DIY sticky section and see if I find something that makes sense but worse case scenario, I drop $80 on something that's guaranteed to support the process correctly. Besides, I'm already saving money by purchasing AG ingredient kits.

Also, the AG ingredient kits from MWS's ARE pre crushed which is good for me. And my first AG batch will be a pumpkin ale. Nothing too fancy so it would give me some good practice for the next batch which is going to a mint chocolate stout I'm prepping for Xmas time.

If anyone else has any more suggestions or links to possibly more informative videos on BIAB, I'm def open to watching them. Maybe you'll change my mind!
 
Two ways to cut down on the hot, heavy, stickiness of BIAB is to have a pully and an extra pot. Brewing in my driveway, I'll tie the bag to a rope and toss it over my basketball hoop. Then I'll hang the bag over another pot and let it drip wort until I've gotten as much from it as I can get.

You may not have a pully, but you probably have an extra pot you can drop the grain bag into until it cools off.

But do what ever makes the most sense to you. I started with a cooler MLT.
 
Just had another thought, if I'm making 5 gallon batches, do I need a 10 gallon cooler or a 5 gallon cooler? I'm presuming 5..
 
It sounds like you're on the right track! There is nothing to fear. I have no idea how to do an extract brew, all I've ever done is all-grain brewing. I watched the same videos that you did, read a few books, spent a hours here (HomeBrewTalk) reading the posts, then took off. Each time I brew, I learn more and make improvements. There is something quite satisfying about buying at a bunch of grain then turning it into beer. I never wanted to do the extracts. That just seemed to be like making instant beer, kind of like instant coffee.
 
MyCarHasAbs said:
Just had another thought, if I'm making 5 gallon batches, do I need a 10 gallon cooler or a 5 gallon cooler? I'm presuming 5..
Click to expand...

I got a 7.6 gallon cooler from Northern Brewer. It has done the job, but if I had to do it over again, I'd go with the ten gallon.
 
I jumped straight from the "just add water" kits into AG without bothering with extract at all. Its really a lot easier than it seems. It may take a few goes to get your process down but you'll definitely be making decent beer. Just from boiling and steeping, cooling, etc you already know twice as much as I did starting off in AG.
 
MyCarHasAbs said:
Just had another thought, if I'm making 5 gallon batches, do I need a 10 gallon cooler or a 5 gallon cooler? I'm presuming 5..
Click to expand...


A 5 gal cooler will be just fine. I can easily fit 10-12 lbs of grain, and up to 13 lbs if I need to, for my BIAB setup.
A bigger cooler might be handy if you want to brew bigger batches at some point (and less likely to splash hot liquid), but a 5 gal cooler will do the job just fine if you plan your batches out appropriately. Be careful with some of the all-grain kits, as they might have more grain than your cooler can handle if you go with a 5 gal cooler.

More important, I think, is getting a bigger kettle, unless you plan on topping off with water afterwards to make up your final volume going into the fermenter. It will be quite difficult if (and very messy) attempting to boil a 5 gal batch in a 6 gal kettle, considering for a 5 gal batch you need to start with >5 gal to boil. I'd highly recommend upgrading your kettle, and you will still find your 6 gal pot very useful for heating water. I picked up a 10.5 gal aluminum bayou classic pot, with a strainer bucket included, on Amazon pretty cheaply. There's a couple other brands in a similar price range if you look around. Makes a much easier brew day and keeps boil-overs to a minimum.


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