All Grain...I'm Afraid..

[HomebrewCraig]

I brewed extract, then took a 15 year break, and once I came back I brewed nothing but all-grain, BIAB with a dunk sparge. During that fifteen year hiatus I picked up cooking, and many recipes I cook are pretty complicated... And I'd equate brewing to making dinner. Specific measurements, time, and lots of waiting, with a (hopefully) wonderful payoff at the end of the process. I read all of the threads and saw lots of people worrying over the complexity of it all, but quite honestly the very first batch I brewed I wondered to myself why some fret over all-grain. I enjoyed the challenge, and a few weeks ago I got to drink a few from the first batch.

 

[EthanH]

This post, right here on our very own HBT, was what inspired my switch to AG. It hits all the main points clearly and succinctly.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/biab-brewing-pics-233289/

(And seriously, if you start watching/reading something that starts going into various rests and steps during the mash...it would be my advice to STOP watching/reading, because they are likely going into advanced methods not necessary for the AG acolyte.)

 

[heckler73]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5J8S5nBdUc[/ame]

NorthernBrewerTV has excellent videos, albeit focused on what they sell, but you can easily adapt it.


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh_h4W2VmFdo3R8g1XaXN_Q

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

I watched a few more videos, both from John Palmer and BIAB vids. To me, the first video I posted..just talking purely on the process, made the most sense to me. I felt like it was very relatable, like I could easily set that system up in my kitchen with very little difficulty or intimidation. I think my issue with the BIAB is it looks like it could be a hot, heavy, sticky mess really quickly (not to mention the usage of the bag was very inconsistent among videos, I'm using a 6 gal kettle and I'm confident the bag would fit, maybe I'm not looking at the right vids). If you can believe it, I think I actually found the techniques for BIAB to be 'more' complicated.

I can't say I'm excited to spend more money on brewing at this point but I'd rather invest in good equipment that's going to last and is going to serve me well than get something that was built half assed and may fail on me. I'm also not much of a DIY kind of guy. I do have a learning disability that involves reading comprehension (hense why I learn best buy watching + listening and then doing) and I don't read those step by step DIY instructions very well. It creates a lot of room for me to fudge something up. I'll browse around the DIY sticky section and see if I find something that makes sense but worse case scenario, I drop $80 on something that's guaranteed to support the process correctly. Besides, I'm already saving money by purchasing AG ingredient kits.

Also, the AG ingredient kits from MWS's ARE pre crushed which is good for me. And my first AG batch will be a pumpkin ale. Nothing too fancy so it would give me some good practice for the next batch which is going to a mint chocolate stout I'm prepping for Xmas time.

If anyone else has any more suggestions or links to possibly more informative videos on BIAB, I'm def open to watching them. Maybe you'll change my mind!

 

[Beernik]

Two ways to cut down on the hot, heavy, stickiness of BIAB is to have a pully and an extra pot. Brewing in my driveway, I'll tie the bag to a rope and toss it over my basketball hoop. Then I'll hang the bag over another pot and let it drip wort until I've gotten as much from it as I can get.

You may not have a pully, but you probably have an extra pot you can drop the grain bag into until it cools off.

But do what ever makes the most sense to you. I started with a cooler MLT.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Just had another thought, if I'm making 5 gallon batches, do I need a 10 gallon cooler or a 5 gallon cooler? I'm presuming 5..

 

[Sparge]

It sounds like you're on the right track! There is nothing to fear. I have no idea how to do an extract brew, all I've ever done is all-grain brewing. I watched the same videos that you did, read a few books, spent a hours here (HomeBrewTalk) reading the posts, then took off. Each time I brew, I learn more and make improvements. There is something quite satisfying about buying at a bunch of grain then turning it into beer. I never wanted to do the extracts. That just seemed to be like making instant beer, kind of like instant coffee.

 

[Sparge]

Just had another thought, if I'm making 5 gallon batches, do I need a 10 gallon cooler or a 5 gallon cooler? I'm presuming 5..

I got a 7.6 gallon cooler from Northern Brewer. It has done the job, but if I had to do it over again, I'd go with the ten gallon.

 

[Eucrid]

I jumped straight from the "just add water" kits into AG without bothering with extract at all. Its really a lot easier than it seems. It may take a few goes to get your process down but you'll definitely be making decent beer. Just from boiling and steeping, cooling, etc you already know twice as much as I did starting off in AG.

 

[BrewinBromanite]

Just had another thought, if I'm making 5 gallon batches, do I need a 10 gallon cooler or a 5 gallon cooler? I'm presuming 5..

A 5 gal cooler will be just fine. I can easily fit 10-12 lbs of grain, and up to 13 lbs if I need to, for my BIAB setup.
A bigger cooler might be handy if you want to brew bigger batches at some point (and less likely to splash hot liquid), but a 5 gal cooler will do the job just fine if you plan your batches out appropriately. Be careful with some of the all-grain kits, as they might have more grain than your cooler can handle if you go with a 5 gal cooler.

More important, I think, is getting a bigger kettle, unless you plan on topping off with water afterwards to make up your final volume going into the fermenter. It will be quite difficult if (and very messy) attempting to boil a 5 gal batch in a 6 gal kettle, considering for a 5 gal batch you need to start with >5 gal to boil. I'd highly recommend upgrading your kettle, and you will still find your 6 gal pot very useful for heating water. I picked up a 10.5 gal aluminum bayou classic pot, with a strainer bucket included, on Amazon pretty cheaply. There's a couple other brands in a similar price range if you look around. Makes a much easier brew day and keeps boil-overs to a minimum.


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[william_shakes_beer]

Add city and state to your profile, perhaps someone will offer to come by and hold your hand for your first session. I know I would. Or, look up a local home brew club.

 

[thekraken]

I was in your position a few months ago. I'm borrowing a family members extract equipment while they can't use it for a year, I decided why not go all the way and do all grain? So I put together a cooler MLT, went to my HBS and bought some grain and got funny looks, went home and semi-successfully brewed 5 gallons all grain for my first ever batch. I say semi-successfully because I missed my gravity be 0.02, but I have learned from the experience (plus I did get drinkable beer from it). I have since brewed a kit from NB and hit all my gravities and volumes exactly! I say just jump in and do it, take notes, learn from your mistakes/experience, it's not hard.

Regarding MLT size, I went with this 15 gallon cooler design: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/60qt-ice-cube-mash-tun-build-cheap-simple-144475/index19.html
It was cheaper and larger than the popular 10 gallon water cooler options. Its ratio of height to base area is also much more optimal than most higher capacity MLT coolers I've seen, theoretically making it more versatile for smaller grain bills as well as larger grain bills.

Edit: Also, the beersmith software has been great http://beersmith.com/

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

A 5 gal cooler will be just fine. I can easily fit 10-12 lbs of grain, and up to 13 lbs if I need to, for my BIAB setup.
A bigger cooler might be handy if you want to brew bigger batches at some point (and less likely to splash hot liquid), but a 5 gal cooler will do the job just fine if you plan your batches out appropriately. Be careful with some of the all-grain kits, as they might have more grain than your cooler can handle if you go with a 5 gal cooler.

More important, I think, is getting a bigger kettle, unless you plan on topping off with water afterwards to make up your final volume going into the fermenter. It will be quite difficult if (and very messy) attempting to boil a 5 gal batch in a 6 gal kettle, considering for a 5 gal batch you need to start with >5 gal to boil. I'd highly recommend upgrading your kettle, and you will still find your 6 gal pot very useful for heating water. I picked up a 10.5 gal aluminum bayou classic pot, with a strainer bucket included, on Amazon pretty cheaply. There's a couple other brands in a similar price rangefinder you look around. Makes a much easier brew day and keeps boil-overs to a minimum.


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Yea I just top off with water. One item at a time Just bought a house, budget is still a bit tight.

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

Add city and state to your profile, perhaps someone will offer to come by and hold your hand for your first session. I know I would. Or, look up a local home brew club.

You made me lose it at hold my hand haha.

 

[CrypticIntent]

I'd like to point out one minor thing. It was stated you aren't ready for all grain.
Dirty little secret, you will NEVER be ready for all grain until you just go and do it. Information and videos rock and are a great boon, gives plenty of ideas that keep you from having complete failure on your first go. However until you get to it, you won't be ready. In fact sometimes there is an over-saturation of knowledge that can come. AG brewing is not a big mystery to be solved, it is an adventure you seem to know enough knowledge to have fun with it and I can't wait to hear how good or bad brew day goes.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

MCHA - No worries, bud - you've got this. The kit will come with instructions that are easy and step-by-step; The website for the supplier of the kit might even have a selection of videos to check on, or you can search YouTube for a video demonstration of the same kit that you bought. Even if there's no video, just run down the instructions step-by-step a few times, line up all of your ingredients and equipment beforehand, and you will be just fine.

I'm not very experienced in brewing, but I do a lot of trying new things in cooking, charcuterie, barbecue and other culinary endeavours; one thing I've learned is that it's way too possible to over-think it before the fact, and make it way too complicated. I've also learned that a lot of times, asking the "experts" when you are starting out can be intimidating because they (inadvertantly) talk above your knowledge and experience level; this won't happen all the time, but there is a chance of it happening any time.

Have your ingredients and equipment ready, as per the kit. Follow the steps. Do it according to the directions the first time, taking no short-cuts and resisting the temptation to deviate from teh written instructions. You will learn fundamentals and WHY you are doing what you're doing. Once you've done it, and seen how easy it is, you can then start looking for ways to be more efficient, pick up any equipment that will make it easier next time etc. - but the first time, it's just a matter of familiarising yourself with the process and the equipment/ingredients. Your confidence will grow with your experience, and above all, you will be actually DOING it, instead of being in a constant, never-ending state of "getting ready to do it."

All will be cool, just do it.

Just two cents from a guy in Montana who brewed his first beer last week and learned more by actually doing it than by all the reading and discussion in the previous 7 months before he actually got off his ass and did it.

 

[j1n]

I watched a few more videos, both from John Palmer and BIAB vids. To me, the first video I posted..just talking purely on the process, made the most sense to me. I felt like it was very relatable, like I could easily set that system up in my kitchen with very little difficulty or intimidation. I think my issue with the BIAB is it looks like it could be a hot, heavy, sticky mess really quickly (not to mention the usage of the bag was very inconsistent among videos, I'm using a 6 gal kettle and I'm confident the bag would fit, maybe I'm not looking at the right vids). If you can believe it, I think I actually found the techniques for BIAB to be 'more' complicated.

I can't say I'm excited to spend more money on brewing at this point but I'd rather invest in good equipment that's going to last and is going to serve me well than get something that was built half assed and may fail on me. I'm also not much of a DIY kind of guy. I do have a learning disability that involves reading comprehension (hense why I learn best buy watching + listening and then doing) and I don't read those step by step DIY instructions very well. It creates a lot of room for me to fudge something up. I'll browse around the DIY sticky section and see if I find something that makes sense but worse case scenario, I drop $80 on something that's guaranteed to support the process correctly. Besides, I'm already saving money by purchasing AG ingredient kits.

Also, the AG ingredient kits from MWS's ARE pre crushed which is good for me. And my first AG batch will be a pumpkin ale. Nothing too fancy so it would give me some good practice for the next batch which is going to a mint chocolate stout I'm prepping for Xmas time.

If anyone else has any more suggestions or links to possibly more informative videos on BIAB, I'm def open to watching them. Maybe you'll change my mind!

I agree. When people say BIAB is the easiest way to get into AG then i see people with pulley systems to lift the bag out cause its heavy as F**K, that to me takes the simplicity completely out of it and not worth it.

 

[doug293cz]

I agree. When people say BIAB is the easiest way to get into AG then i see people with pulley systems to lift the bag out cause its heavy as F**K, that to me takes the simplicity completely out of it and not worth it.

A pulley is complicated, really? I just hang my pulley from a step ladder over the BK. Simple.

Neither a pulley, nor a mash tun (at least for batch sparging) is complicated. Designing & building a proper drain manifold (to avoid channeling) for fly sparging does add more complexity to a mash tun, but it's still not rocket science, and can be accomplished by anyone with minimal plumbing skills.

Brew on

 

[rockdemon]

I agree. When people say BIAB is the easiest way to get into AG then i see people with pulley systems to lift the bag out cause its heavy as F**K, that to me takes the simplicity completely out of it and not worth it.

Ive never done extractbrews, i started with biab right away, allthough i dont make big batches i really dont understand how the bag can be heavy as f**k? I only do big beers and have like 5 kg of malt in the bag. that plus the water makes it like 10 kg to pull and let it rinse. I hold the bad with one hand and squeeze it with the other, the only problem is that my kitchenfloor becomes a guey mess. Im thinking of creating something similar to what you have on your turkeyburners, so i can put the grainbag on it and let it rinse itself instead. But i wouldnt call "lifting the grainbag" a problem.

 

[Beer is good]

Hi buddy I just did my first AG batch last weekend - no big deal! You just soak your grains in hot water for an hour, then rinse them, and boil like usual.

 

[j1n]

A pulley is complicated, really? I just hang my pulley from a step ladder over the BK. Simple.

Neither a pulley, nor a mash tun (at least for batch sparging) is complicated. Designing & building a proper drain manifold (to avoid channeling) for fly sparging does add more complexity to a mash tun, but it's still not rocket science, and can be accomplished by anyone with minimal plumbing skills.

Brew on

I started brewing on AG and fly sparging so i know how easy it is. So instead of a MLT and HLT i need a pulley and a ladder. i thought the benefit of BIAB was using less equipment....

Ive never done extractbrews, i started with biab right away, allthough i dont make big batches i really dont understand how the bag can be heavy as f**k? I only do big beers and have like 5 kg of malt in the bag. that plus the water makes it like 10 kg to pull and let it rinse. I hold the bad with one hand and squeeze it with the other, the only problem is that my kitchenfloor becomes a guey mess. Im thinking of creating something similar to what you have on your turkeyburners, so i can put the grainbag on it and let it rinse itself instead. But i wouldnt call "lifting the grainbag" a problem.

I've never done extract either. I'm more comparing traditional AG with batch or fly sparging vs BIAB. Id much rather use MLT and HLT vs a bag with a pulley. Maybe its the 10 gallon folks that BIAB that use a pulley to lift the grains. I'm just saying BIAB doesn't seem that much easier vs regular AG and has its own challenges. Seems like anyone that wants to go AG, everyone is saying go BIAB.


I can see how my post makes it seem like im advocating extract brews. My point was to go all the way with AG brewing.

 

[Kee]

So after watching a few vids on BIAB, I think I'm going to wait till my AG kits from MWS comes in and read the directions. If it sounds like they're on the more traditional method (based on the first vid I watched) I probably (to make things easier and less translation/conversion of technique) just invest in a mash tun or I'll find a DYI way of making one.

Oh, and to the guy above who said "not to be harsh but you're correct you're not ready" you do realize that ALL you're doing is lighting a fire under my ass to prove that statement wrong..right?

I don't know about this specific recipe but the only all grain kit I ever ordered had no detailed instructions, just recommended mash time and temp, and boil additions and times.

 

[Malty_Dog]

A lot of good discussion here. To the OP - I recommend going with a partial mash the first time you try mashing. This is the thread that led me down the road to all grain. Mash in a pot, using a $3 paint strainer bag from Home Depot: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-partial-mash-brewing-pics-75231/

Add extract to make up for unmashed quantity of base malt. Generally 3 lbs DME = 5 lbs grain, and 3.3 lbs LME = 4.5 lbs grain.

Partial mash is like sticking your toe in the water before leaping in. Wait that didn't come out quite right...

 

[BrewinBromanite]

^^ Ageeed. Partial mash (PM) is a great way to get familiar with AG on a smaller scale. If your mash efficiency is low, you can easily add a little more extract. If your volume is a little off (ex: if boil off-rate was higher than expected), just top off with more water in the fermenter. I did only 2 PM batches side by side (same brew day) when I transitioned from extract w/ steeping grain to AG. The nice part was my 6 gal pot was fine, because I was topping off and not doing a full volume boil. They ended up being my best batches up till that time. I could've happily stayed at PM, but it was so easy to go another step to AG I made the final switch on my next batch (but also had to purchase a little more equipment, like a bigger kettle than my 6 gal pot). It really is a good way to get the mash process down and other variables, but with a little room for error to adjust for mistakes.

Also, I spent A LOT of time reading about PM and AG before I switched, and was pretty well prepared. But I quickly learned that questions came up that I didn't read about and that I would never have known to ask except for things coming up when you actually try it. You learn something new every batch. The good news is, if you end up having some unanticipated question, chances are others have experienced it and you can search this forum and find the answers!


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[johngaltsmotor]

Granted, AG takes more time than Extract, but I wouldn't say it's more complicated. Soaking grain is not rocket science. The temperature ranges you need to stay in are quite forgiving. And sparging (rinsing) the grain isn't difficult. And everything else is just like extract brewing. Can you make it technical? Yes. Does it HAVE to be technical? No.

If you keep reminding yourself that "this is cool!!" then you'd be surprised at how easy it is. Sure you'll make a mess the first time. That's about the worst that can happen. If your gravity ends up low, you can do the math to adjust it or just say "SO WHAT?" and ferment a session beer.

You're no more likely to make something lethal by brewing all grain than you are with extract so I ask you: what's the worst that can happen?
If you're enjoying the process then nothing else matters. In the end you'll have made beer from nothing but water and grain and hops and yeast, and to you it will taste like darn good beer because it's yours.

If you're concerned, just make sure the kids aren't around to tattle to SWMBO when you swear ;-)

Enjoy

 

[doug293cz]

I started brewing on AG and fly sparging so i know how easy it is. ... My point was to go all the way with AG brewing.

BIAB is all grain brewing. You can do AG with one, two, or three vessels. It's all a matter of personal preference, budget, available space, scrounging skills, and/or DIY skills.

I started brewing on AG and fly sparging so i know how easy it is. So instead of a MLT and HLT i need a pulley and a ladder. i thought the benefit of BIAB was using less equipment....

Pulley's are cheaper than MLT's, and many people already have ladders (or structures over their brew space to attach an eye bolt.) If you don't have a ladder or overhead structure, then yeah, it's extra equipment. Different people have different situations. For small enough batches you don't need a bag suspension method.

Seems like anyone that wants to go AG, everyone is saying go BIAB.

The point is, if you already have the equipment to do extract, the only thing additional needed for all grain is a suitable bag. If you want to add more equipment, have the budget, space, etc., just like to tinker, whatever, then there is nothing wrong with starting AG with three vessel.

Brew on

 

[MyCarHasAbs]

I'll watch a few more vids later on BIAB but so far it def makes more sense to me to follow the technique that made the most sense to me. Honestly, based on that first video I watched the hardest part looks to be constructing the mash tun. Unless of course that guy made the process look easy.

And yea, about the pulley system haha, the moment the word "pulley" was mentioned I immediately thought "now it just got more complicated haha". I actually don't have a ladder! But I do have extra pots for heating water and an extra hose for draining.


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_____________________________
I once dated a girl who told me I will not drink beer in front of our children. I dumped her the next day.

 

[Beernik]

The only recommend I have on building a MLT is to really think about what you want it to be because you are going to be using it for the next 5 years.

I was very excited building mine and tried to do it on a budget. Looking back on it, I didnt plan it out well. My manifold took me too long to put together every brew day. I didn't do a good job drilling, so I was always chasing down leaks and wrapping stuff in Teflon tape. My thermometer could have been in a better spot. I should have bought a better valve. I should have bought a better thermometer.

This time around I'm building my system slowly and trying to do it in a way that won't have me saying in two years, "I wish I hadn't done that."

 

[doug293cz]

The only recommend I have on building a MLT is to really think about what you want it to be because you are going to be using it for the next 5 years.

I was very excited building mine and tried to do it on a budget. Looking back on it, I didnt plan it out well. My manifold took me too long to put together every brew day. I didn't do a good job drilling, so I was always chasing down leaks and wrapping stuff in Teflon tape. My thermometer could have been in a better spot. I should have bought a better valve. I should have bought a better thermometer.

This time around I'm building my system slowly and trying to do it in a way that won't have me saying in two years, "I wish I hadn't done that."

[SNARK] Yeah, hanging a pulley is way more complicated than this! [/SNARK] Sorry, I couldn't resist

The advice on planning is spot on. Do it well or do it over.

Brew on

 

[TheHungryArchitect]

Hey there!

I breezed over most of the responses and you are in very good hands here!

I hit the ground running when I started brewing (on my 6th batch now) and I started with an AG 5gal mash-tun system that I built myself. Took a few trips to Home Depot to get the right stuff, but I figured it out. I also built a counter-flow wort-chiller that works like a charm!

My first brew was drinkable, nothing special, but since then I've hit the mark every time and I'm continuing to refine the process. Do your research and just go for it, you'll be great!

My advice: valves and filters are your friends! Good luck mate!