All Grain - Aeration

[45_70sharps]

I've had good luck with the paint mixer but I like big beers so an O2 system and doing a starter for my yeast every time is simple and it helps make sure the yeast gets a good start every time.,

 

[billl]

There are obviously a ton of ways to make good beer and that certainly applies to "big" beers as well. Most of those styles were invented prior to the discovery of yeast or oxygen, let alone pressurized O2 canisters and diffusion stones.

Also, just by the numbers, shaking/splashing to 8ppm, letting the yeast eat for a bit, and then shaking and splashing some more provides just as much O2 as a 1 time 10 ppm blast.

 

[TheZymurgist]

Same here. Again, if the MixStir didn't give me excellent results, I would have switched to something else several hundred batches back.

I noticed a fairly significant increase in the quality of my beer once I switched to pure O2. The mixer made excellent beer, but the O2 made even better beer.

Point is, both methods work, both make good beer. The reason I switched is that I was able to borrow a friend's O2 setup and do a side-by-side comparison. Since they're not too expensive, the O2 systems are well worth it, in my opinion.

 

[45_70sharps]

There are obviously a ton of ways to make good beer and that certainly applies to "big" beers as well. Most of those styles were invented prior to the discovery of yeast or oxygen, let alone pressurized O2 canisters and diffusion stones.

Also, just by the numbers, shaking/splashing to 8ppm, letting the yeast eat for a bit, and then shaking and splashing some more provides just as much O2 as a 1 time 10 ppm blast.

I'm not knocking you for doing it that way.
I've always used to paint mixer before. I just think that by using the oxygen and a yeast starter I am going to get insurance and probably consistency for very little effort.

 

[daksin]

Can you make good beer without pure O2? Totally- I don't think very many people at all use it. That said, if there was no benefit to oxygenating to 10-12ppm dO2, the pro's wouldn't do it. I'm not a rich dude, but $60 is not much to spend to instantly improve your beer. My ferments are faster, cleaner, and my yeast clears better than before, and I'd say that my beer was already very good before I started using pure O2.

 

[mgortel]

"Oxygenator" is on my Christmas list for Santa to bring to me.......

 

[Denny]

Can you make good beer without pure O2? Totally- I don't think very many people at all use it. That said, if there was no benefit to oxygenating to 10-12ppm dO2, the pro's wouldn't do it. I'm not a rich dude, but $60 is not much to spend to instantly improve your beer. My ferments are faster, cleaner, and my yeast clears better than before, and I'd say that my beer was already very good before I started using pure O2.

My point of view is that we're homebrewers and not everything that commercial brewers do is necessary or applicable. Besides, it would have to be a BIG MixStir for them! And it's not like I haven't tried O2 to compare. Have you tried the MixStir?

 

[daksin]

My point of view is that we're homebrewers and not everything that commercial brewers do is necessary or applicable. Besides, it would have to be a BIG MixStir for them! And it's not like I haven't tried O2 to compare. Have you tried the MixStir?

I used to shake vigorously and the effect is the same. I have a mix-stir for wine and mead degassing, primarily. My point of view is that the pros do things that make their beer better and I'm also a scientist, so I like to keep up with current research and best practices. The data tells me that oxygenating to 10-12ppm dO2 improves beer, regardless of who makes it- I go with the data first. Gut feelings don't mean much to scientists, we like data.

 

[Yooper]

Personally, I seldom measure my beer...I drink it. My results using the MixStir are every bit as good as friends who use O2. What else matters?

I'm with Denny. I have a MixStir, but sometimes I don't even use it because I started holding up my tubing out of the March pump from the CFC to splash and aerate my wort. I have a big foamy head on my beer when I pitch the yeast.

I'm not 100% sure that you can get 10-12 ppm o2 with an oxygen system, but I'm sure I get 8 ppm o2 with my system so I'm happy with it.

My beers are pretty good, and I'd put them against any commercial brews.

 

[Denny]

I used to shake vigorously and the effect is the same..

I think I'd have to disgree with that based on my experience.

 

[nutty_gnome]

What times are people using for injecting oxygen vs a hand drill? Those who just splash it into the fermentor spend no time focused on oxgenating, it just happens (maybe).

Also, John Palmer on the brewing network has suggested the some of the head-forming (i.e. foamy) components of beer are a single-use type of reaction. This means that if you create a big head by stirring or spraying into the fermentor, you are robbing your beer of some of its head-forming capabilities when you serve it in the future. Jamil noted in a podcast that the best way to inject CO2 was to do so in such a way that you could see a multitude of tiny bubble rising through the wort, but shouldn't cause major foaming when it reached the surface. Something to think about i guess.

That said, I do nothing overt to oxygenate my beer at present. It is something that I worry about but haven't yet tackled because I reach the appropriate FG in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[45_70sharps]

I don't understand the arguments.
Yes a paint mixer will work.
No you won't reach optimum oxygen levels, but it works.

An oxygen system will get you very close to optimum levels and it's not a lot of money.

Optimum oxygen levels make happy healthy yeast. Happy healthy yeast do a good job making beer so let's make them happy and healthy.

You don't need an O2 system to make good beer but why be so opposed to the people who take the extra step?

It's not even an extra step, it's just a different step and with an oxygen system I don't need worry about the paint mixer scratching the bucket.

 

[Keithww]

One thing about using pure O2 is that after you pull the stone and put on the blow off tube the air in the carboy is much higher in O2 than the air in a carboy after you shake it. All that extra O2 will allow the wort to absorb more oxygen as the yeast uses the DO.

I use O2 because with a bad back I'm not going to shake a 40# bottle.

 

[daksin]

I think I'd have to disgree with that based on my experience.

I meant to say that the effect of shaking vigorously is the same as using a mix stir. I shook for quite a while. I wouldn't say it was the same as using O2, though. My system works great for me, and I think I noticed a difference when switching to O2. Denny's probably right though, as far as many professional techniques not being as applicable to homebrewers.

In any event, my arms don't get tired when oxygenating anymore!

 

[WoodlandBrew]

Using the air via shaking or a paint mixer gives consistent results of 8ppm oxygen, which is just a little on the low side.

Using oxygen gives an unknown amount that can only really be determined by measuring the dissolved oxygen. Experience with an oxygen system can give you consistent results, but generally, shaking will give more consistent results than an oxygen tank.

Method                  DO ppm  Time
Siphon Spray            4 ppm   0 sec.
Splashing & Shaking     8 ppm   40 sec.
Aquarium Pump w/ stone  8 ppm   5 min
Pure Oxygen w/ stone    0-26ppm 60 sec (12ppm)

From Wyeast: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm

 

[SpeedYellow]

O2 injection is simply so unnatural that it has no appeal to me. Two thousand years of aeration has worked fine, so I'll stick to my aquarium pump. A side benefit compared to the Stir Mix-a-Lot (or whatever it's called) is that you can also easily aerate in small-mouthed containers like yeast starters.

 

[45_70sharps]

The opposition to using pure oxygen baffles me.
I understand people that don't do it and don't plan on it.
Doing what you always do and like the results from makes sense.

Why would you be anti pure oxygen though?
I know I would happily sit down and drink your shaken or mixed beer.

Pure oxygen is just a simple thing that lets me help the yeast. It's not some strange additive or something.

 

[Keithww]

Saying that no one needed it for 2000 years is interesting as beer is much different than it was say 200 years ago. I am sure that some fine IPA reached India and that some wonderful Imperial Stout reached Russia, but the quality of beer today would have to be better than that of a brew that spent weeks on ships, wagons and and sitting in the back of a bar. Should we not use temperature controllers, standardized yeast strains?

If brewing is an art and a science shouldn't we do what we can to further the science so that the art can shine though?

 

[SpeedYellow]

...If brewing is an art and a science shouldn't we do what we can to further the science so that the art can shine though?

It's a personal choice as to how far to deviate from brewing tradition, and there's no wrong answer. O2 may not be my choice, but heck it works, so go for it! You can argue that genetically modified barley and hops grown on a steady diet of NPK and pesticides are an improvement too, and again that's a personal choice.

In the big picture, for all but very high OG beers, a thorough aeration will be just as good as pure O2 for us homebrewers. The important thing is to do one or the other.

 

[Denny]

The opposition to using pure oxygen baffles me.
I understand people that don't do it and don't plan on it.
Doing what you always do and like the results from makes sense.

Why would you be anti pure oxygen though?
I know I would happily sit down and drink your shaken or mixed beer.

Pure oxygen is just a simple thing that lets me help the yeast. It's not some strange additive or something.

I'm certainly not "anti pure oxygen". I'm anti "people telling me something doesn't work well when I KNOW it does"!

 

[stewart194]

For those of you who use the Drill Stir Stick method, how long do you do this?

 

[Denny]

For those of you who use the Drill Stir Stick method, how long do you do this?

Until the fermenter is full of foam...usually 2-3 min.

 

[ArtVandelay]

Just wanted to comment on cleaning the O2 stone. All I do is turn on the stone while submerged in starsan and turn the the O2 briefl to flush. Wen I'm finished aerating wort, I rinse and then purge the 02 stone with oxygen again in starsan and let dry. Have had no issues with infection after a dozen batches. Maybe just because fermentation starts so fast there is no time for bugs to take over

 

[stewart194]

Until the fermenter is full of foam...usually 2-3 min.

Thanks Denny!