Next month, I would like to brew and Altbier style ale. As I've been reading, this is essentially an Ale fermented at cool temperature to achieve lager like qualities. I have a question pertaining to the fermentation temperature. I started monitoring the temperature in my fridge, and as far as I can measure, it won't go any higher than 48 deg F. I was planning on using either the WLP029 or Wyeast 2565 which are both kolsch yeast but come also recommended for Altbier. Is 48 deg too cool for fermentation to occur? I was planning on pitching the yeast at 70 deg, wait a few hours for fermentation to start, and then transfer to fridge knowing that fermentation increase the temperature by 5 or 10 degrees inside the fermentor. What would you guys do?
Ale fermented at coolish temperature
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My experience with Kolsch yeast is that it stalls below about 60 degrees. I ferment mine at about 62 or so, then "lager" it when it's done.
Unfortunately, I'm not equipped to do 60 degree fermentation. It's either fridge temperatures, or a hot 75. 75 deg would be much too warm for the flavors that I'm seeking with this beer. I think I'll have to abandon the idea of brewing this style in a traditional way. I was looking at other yeasts and found the munich lager yeast from wyeast to be able to ferment as low as 48 deg. I might try that one instead. It won't be a true Altbier in the traditional sense by using lager yeast instead of ale yeast, but it will be a nice amber lager. Does anybody have experience fermenting with Wyeast 2308 (Munich Lager) in the 48-50 deg range? Is it truly capable of performing as low as 48 deg?
menschmaschine
Well-Known Member
Most lager yeasts will ferment in the low 40s°F, just a little slower.
ChshreCat
Well-Known Member
Time to look for a temp controller for your fridge. That'll allow you to set it for any temp range you want.
philrose
Well-Known Member
even a swamp cooler will do the trick if you monitor it well enough.
I added a cheap fan to my fermentation corner and have kept the temp even steadier than my crappy keg fridge can cycling on and off whenever it pleases. that thing really needs a controller.
I added a cheap fan to my fermentation corner and have kept the temp even steadier than my crappy keg fridge can cycling on and off whenever it pleases. that thing really needs a controller.
babalu87
Well-Known Member
I wouldnt use a Kolsch yeast for an Altbier, it lends a tartness to darker beers for some reason
I tried once and never again, Kolsch for Kolsch for me
1007 is a GREAT Alt yeast but I would try to ferment closer to 60
Alt is a great style but heed these words
At a month I was wondering why I brewed it
At 6 weeks I was thinking, MEH its OK
At 8 weeks I was kicking myself for not brewing more :rockin:
Alt takes a full 2 months of lagering to be at its peak and it stays at its peak for quite some time.
I tried once and never again, Kolsch for Kolsch for me
1007 is a GREAT Alt yeast but I would try to ferment closer to 60
Alt is a great style but heed these words
At a month I was wondering why I brewed it
At 6 weeks I was thinking, MEH its OK
At 8 weeks I was kicking myself for not brewing more :rockin:
Alt takes a full 2 months of lagering to be at its peak and it stays at its peak for quite some time.
It really sucks being poor. I've got a separate fridge I can use to lager my beers, but the freezer portion is being used by SWMBO and I have no room to get a third fridge in here. Because of that, I can't use a temp controller otherwise I'll loose all the food. Does anybody know if a 6 gallon plastic fermentor fits inside a mini fridge? Cause that I could probably fit somewhere.
dfohio
Well-Known Member
I use the Wyeast German Ale at 55-56 with great results. But 48 will be too cold for it.
I wouldn't be afraid to use a Bavarian or Munich lager yeast, it will still taste like an Altbier because of the mash temp and ingredient profile.
In fact read these BJCP guidelines
7A. Northern German Altbier
Aroma: Subtle malty, sometimes grainy aroma. Low to no noble hop aroma. Clean, lager character with very restrained ester profile. No diacetyl.
Appearance: Light copper to light brown color; very clear from extended cold conditioning. Low to moderate off-white to white head with good retention.
Flavor: Fairly bitter yet balanced by a smooth and sometimes sweet malt character that may have a rich, biscuity and/or lightly caramelly flavor. Dry finish often with lingering bitterness. Clean, lager character sometimes with slight sulfury notes and very low to no esters. Very low to medium noble hop flavor. No diacetyl.
Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium body. Moderate to moderately high carbonation. Smooth mouthfeel.
Overall Impression: A very clean and relatively bitter beer, balanced by some malt character. Generally darker, sometimes more caramelly, and usually sweeter and less bitter than Düsseldorf Altbier.
Comments: Most Altbiers produced outside of Düsseldorf are of the Northern German style. Most are simply moderately bitter brown lagers. Ironically “alt” refers to the old style of brewing (i.e., making ales), which makes the term “Altbier” somewhat inaccurate and inappropriate. Those that are made as ales are fermented at cool ale temperatures and lagered at cold temperatures (as with Düsseldorf Alt).
Ingredients: Typically made with a Pils base and colored with roasted malt or dark crystal. May include small amounts of Munich or Vienna malt. Noble hops. Usually made with an attenuative lager yeast.
I wouldn't be afraid to use a Bavarian or Munich lager yeast, it will still taste like an Altbier because of the mash temp and ingredient profile.
In fact read these BJCP guidelines
7A. Northern German Altbier
Aroma: Subtle malty, sometimes grainy aroma. Low to no noble hop aroma. Clean, lager character with very restrained ester profile. No diacetyl.
Appearance: Light copper to light brown color; very clear from extended cold conditioning. Low to moderate off-white to white head with good retention.
Flavor: Fairly bitter yet balanced by a smooth and sometimes sweet malt character that may have a rich, biscuity and/or lightly caramelly flavor. Dry finish often with lingering bitterness. Clean, lager character sometimes with slight sulfury notes and very low to no esters. Very low to medium noble hop flavor. No diacetyl.
Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium body. Moderate to moderately high carbonation. Smooth mouthfeel.
Overall Impression: A very clean and relatively bitter beer, balanced by some malt character. Generally darker, sometimes more caramelly, and usually sweeter and less bitter than Düsseldorf Altbier.
Comments: Most Altbiers produced outside of Düsseldorf are of the Northern German style. Most are simply moderately bitter brown lagers. Ironically “alt” refers to the old style of brewing (i.e., making ales), which makes the term “Altbier” somewhat inaccurate and inappropriate. Those that are made as ales are fermented at cool ale temperatures and lagered at cold temperatures (as with Düsseldorf Alt).
Ingredients: Typically made with a Pils base and colored with roasted malt or dark crystal. May include small amounts of Munich or Vienna malt. Noble hops. Usually made with an attenuative lager yeast.
I have a 6.5 gallon bucket lagering in my mini fridge. It only took a small amount of cutting to get it to work
Thanks for all the suggestions everybody. I think the most realistic option for me as of right now is to try it with a lager yeast. After all, altbiers are suppose to have lager-like qualities. I'll have to get a mini fridge with a temperature controller eventually as I've been fermenting my ales very warm.
JerD
Well-Known Member
For those of you with temp issues, find the "son of the son of the chiller" project. A few bucks here and there and some empty 2L bottles frozen is all you need. I'm using it now (Alt in primary at 62) and boy am I happy.
I resolved my temperature the poor man's way: a 15 Gal storage container, 4 empty bottles of V8 fusion and some water. I fermented an ESB and was able to keep the temperature between 65 and 70 which is big improvement over the 80-85 degrees from before. However, the 50-60 degree range is going to be a problem without temperature control on the fridge. Without it, the fridge is at 48 (at best) and I can keep the plastic tub at 65. But honestly, that's only a couple of styles of beer I can't do. Lagers will do fine in the upper 40s, and ales are best in the mid 60s. It's the hybrid style beers like Altbier and California common/steam beer that are out of range for me at the moment.
I'm a poor man too, but I've been blessed with these things.
I use this mini fridge that goes down to 31F. It's my crasher. I leave green beer in there for at least a week before I bottle.
I ferment in this chest freezer (Dunkel Weiss and a IPA are going there now.)
This is my beer fridge and I have a lager in it too.
Temp control is the most important thing in brewing. Soory for the repeat post but I took the time for the pics I gota show'em off.
I use this mini fridge that goes down to 31F. It's my crasher. I leave green beer in there for at least a week before I bottle.
I ferment in this chest freezer (Dunkel Weiss and a IPA are going there now.)
This is my beer fridge and I have a lager in it too.
Temp control is the most important thing in brewing. Soory for the repeat post but I took the time for the pics I gota show'em off.
carl spakler
Well-Known Member
Really? I didn't know that. I have a batch to be brewed this weekend with WL830 German lager yeast, would that fall into the "most lager yeasts" you mentioned above?
menschmaschine
Well-Known Member
That one should depending on how low you go.
On the Whitelabs website, they say the optimal fermentation temperature for the WLP830 is between 50 and 55. But many yeasts from wyeast (and both companies share many strains) can ferment fine down to 45F.
Examples:
WLP830
and
Wyeast 2206
Examples:
WLP830
and
Wyeast 2206
