Alabama Homebrewing still Illegal

[Scruffy1207]

Except that they actually had some info on this guy that he was probably at home, by himself, unarmed. Did you read the article? They did it for a TV show -- they had Steven Segal riding along. And the sheriff who orchestrated the whole thing is uber-tool Joe Arpaio, who never heard of a civil right he didn't want to take a giant $&*! on....

False, gun rights. I read he was there, but I doubt that any law man would say "hmmm, we have a tv show here....let's knock down a house" else cops would have done it hundreds of times

 

[jsweet]

False, gun rights.

Heh, good point. Although, I'm sure if he could take away gun rights, but only for brown people, he'd do that too.

I read he was there, but I doubt that any law man would say "hmmm, we have a tv show here....let's knock down a house"

Then you don't know Joe Arpaio...

 

[Nightbiker]

Except that they actually had some info on this guy that he was probably at home, by himself, unarmed. Did you read the article? They did it for a TV show -- they had Steven Segal riding along. And the sheriff who orchestrated the whole thing is uber-tool Joe Arpaio, who never heard of a civil right he didn't want to take a giant $&*! on....

Yep. PROBABLY at home, by himself, unarmed. Too many LEOs are dead because they followed that kind of advice. Sorry, but you have to know your clientele, and Law Enforcement has to know its' version of the same. And the fact of the matter is that you stand a very good chance of being out-gunned by these creeps.
I think I recall that article, but won't swear to it. But I DO know the type of person these thugs are -as I said, our area has its share of illegals, and now and then you read or hear about a cock-fighting ring getting busted around here. AND we DO get some of their uh, results -mix a bunch of thugs, booze, and gambling on violent roosters and what do you have? Aside from a lot of bloody and dieing yard-birds, you get stab-wounds, bullet wounds and fight-related wounds to the humans involved.
I'm as much about our rights as anyone (especially when it comes to our second amendment rights -and I don't just own hunting rifles and shotguns) but I have absolutely no compassion or use for illegals. None whatsoever. Nope. None.

 

[Scruffy1207]

Heh, good point. Although, I'm sure if he could take away gun rights, but only for brown people, he'd do that too.

Then you don't know Joe Arpaio...

He's a hard ass, but not an idiot. You may disagree, but he is getting results. On a side note, mmmm beer.

 

[Scruffy1207]

Yep. PROBABLY at home, by himself, unarmed. Too many LEOs are dead because they followed that kind of advice. Sorry, but you have to know your clientele, and Law Enforcement has to know its' version of the same. And the fact of the matter is that you stand a very good chance of being out-gunned by these creeps.
I think I recall that article, but won't swear to it. But I DO know the type of person these thugs are -as I said, our area has its share of illegals, and now and then you read or hear about a cock-fighting ring getting busted around here. AND we DO get some of their uh, results -mix a bunch of thugs, booze, and gambling on violent roosters and what do you have? Aside from a lot of bloody and dieing yard-birds, you get stab-wounds, bullet wounds and fight-related wounds to the humans involved.
I'm as much about our rights as anyone (especially when it comes to our second amendment rights -and I don't just own hunting rifles and shotguns) but I have absolutely no compassion or use for illegals. None whatsoever. Nope. None.

Again agree'd. We have a legal and illegal way of coming here. Follow the rules and enjoy freedom. Break the rules and you can kiss it goodbye. Not just illegals from our southern border, but northern and all ports too!

 

[jsweet]

I'm just going to duck out of it now, I'm usually not one to shy away from duking it out over politics or social issues (you should see my frikkin' blog), but I sorta like that this forum is, you know, relaxing for me.

 

[Scruffy1207]

I'm just going to duck out of it now, I'm usually not one to shy away from duking it out over politics or social issues (you should see my frikkin' blog), but I sorta like that this forum is, you know, relaxing for me.

Right on, good debate, back to the liquid gold we love so much.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Apologies if someone already mentioned this... but... why doesn't someone actually do something about it being illegal and change the law??

The AHA has a bunch of great info on how to do just that and apparently changed the laws in Utah in 2009

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes

http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/talking-points

Educate some of these rocket scientist legislators and get it legal.

 

[Nightbiker]

they have been trying to change it for years. It takes a long time -especially when you have wealthy lobbyists working against you. I think things would be much better if our lawmakers actually homebrewed.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Not being a wise-ass... I'm asking sincerely...

What wealthy lobbyists are against homebrewing??

 

[Pappers_]

Not being a wise-ass... I'm asking sincerely...

What wealthy lobbyists are against homebrewing??

I have no idea if they actually fund any anti-homebrewing activities or legislators, but off the top of my head:

- beer manufacturers
- beer distributors
- organizations that have prohibitionist tendencies, like MADD and some more fundamentalist churches

 

[Cape Brewing]

I dunno... Again, don't mean it as a wisecrack but I'm kind of skeptical there is any anti-homebrewing lobbying going on. Breweries tend to back homebrewers as we are one big communittee.

 

[bniesen]

Wow. I can't believe Democrats are against it. Up here in WI, I believe it would be republicans against and democrats for legalizing it. Fortunately for me its legal here.
Sucks to be there. sorry man

 

[organ]

I dunno... Again, don't mean it as a wisecrack but I'm kind of skeptical there is any anti-homebrewing lobbying going on. Breweries tend to back homebrewers as we are one big communittee.

I'm sure Bud/Miller/Coors would rather you buy theirs than make your own.

 

[Pappers_]

I dunno... Again, don't mean it as a wisecrack but I'm kind of skeptical there is any anti-homebrewing lobbying going on. Breweries tend to back homebrewers as we are one big communittee.

I agree, I think the bigger issue is ignorance, not lobbying.

 

[ChandlerBang]

I'm sure Bud/Miller/Coors would rather you buy theirs than make your own.

I REALLY doubt BMC has anything to do with anti-homebrew lobbying. And this "I can't fight the billion dollar lobbyists" mentality is part of why it is still illegal. Until someone has actual, real proof to the contrary, I won't entertain this as a legitimate argument.

To Alabama: Organize some homebrewers, get some donations, get a grass roots effort going to change the law. This shouldn't be a legalizing gambling or pot kind of fight. In those cases there are actual studies showing the negitive effects of those products (I still think they should be legalized and taxed.) In this case we're just talking about making homebrewing legal, not distilling, not even selling what you are making. I will go so far to say, you may even be able to get some donations from craft breweries and such if your cause/organization is legitimate.

 

[organ]

I REALLY doubt BMC has anything to do with anti-homebrew lobbying. And this "I can't fight the billion dollar lobbyists" mentality is part of why it is still illegal. Until someone has actual, real proof to the contrary, I won't entertain this as a legitimate argument.

To Alabama: Organize some homebrewers, get some donations, get a grass roots effort going to change the law. This shouldn't be a legalizing gambling or pot kind of fight. In those cases there are actual studies showing the negitive effects of those products (I still think they should be legalized and taxed.) In this case we're just talking about making homebrewing legal, not distilling, not even selling what you are making. I will go so far to say, you may even be able to get some donations from craft breweries and such if your cause/organization is legitimate.

I'm not saying that's what's going on; only that I don't think it's too far fetched. I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that they'd rather you buy theirs than brew your own and in Beer Wars it was claimed that, in 2006, big beer donated more PAC money than guns and tobacco combined.

 

[Scruffy1207]

I'm not saying that's what's going on; only that I don't think it's too far fetched. I don't think anyone would argue against the fact that they'd rather you buy theirs than brew your own and in Beer Wars it was claimed that, in 2006, big beer donated more PAC money than guns and tobacco combined.

I would have to agree that it's not that far fetched that bmc would contribute to anti homebrewing legislation. You think big oil companies aren't contributing to keeping dependance on oil. It's how big companies work, squash competition, there is no reason to have so many choices of how to get your bud light at the store, bottles/cans, 6/12/18/24/30/33, it's the billboard effect. They go against craft breweries as much as they go against homebrewing, loss of business.

 

[ChandlerBang]

..... Beer Wars it was claimed that, in 2006, big beer donated more PAC money than guns and tobacco combined.

Claimed by whom? Was it a reliable source or just an unfounded musing?

I would have to agree that it's not that far fetched that bmc would contribute to anti homebrewing legislation. You think big oil companies aren't contributing to keeping dependence on oil. It's how big companies work, squash competition, there is no reason to have so many choices of how to get your bud light at the store, bottles/cans, 6/12/18/24/30/33, it's the billboard effect. They go against craft breweries as much as they go against homebrewing, loss of business.

Big Oil would LOVE to drill more oil wells in the Gulf of Mexico, ANWR, etc. Our government has control of that one.

I understand the competition thing, but how much do potential homebrewers cost the big beer companies in lost sales? Nothing compared to their actual competition in the market. I think the idea of homebrewing making it on BMC's radar as a problem to spend money on is as laughable as you think it is legitimate. We Americans like to lay blame at big business' feet for all of our problems. Maybe this time it is just a bunch of moron politicians that don't actually know anything about homebrewing.

 

[Scruffy1207]

Claimed by whom? Was it a reliable source or just an unfounded musing?

Big Oil would LOVE to drill more oil wells in the Gulf of Mexico, ANWR, etc. Our government has control of that one.

I understand the competition thing, but how much do potential homebrewers cost the big beer companies in lost sales? Nothing compared to their actual competition in the market. I think the idea of homebrewing making it on BMC's radar as a problem to spend money on is as laughable as you think it is legitimate. We Americans like to lay blame at big business' feet for all of our problems. Maybe this time it is just a bunch of moron politicians that don't actually know anything about homebrewing.

Contributions made by Budweiser to PAC
http://www.city-data.com/elec2/elec-LOXLEY-AL.html

PAC donations to lowell barron, democrat incumbent

http://www.followthemoney.org/datab...or_details.phtml?u=14409&y=2010&ince=1&incs=1


Took me two minutes to find this. Can't research more, at work atm. I'm pro business, except when they screw me.

Edit: I tried finding voting records on this guy and what he did with the homebrew legislation and couldn't find it for last years bill. He isn't on office this year. So I guess what I said is neither pro or con to either of our arguements. Lol sorry.

 

[ChandlerBang]

Contributions made by Budweiser to PAC
http://www.city-data.com/elec2/elec-LOXLEY-AL.html

PAC donations to lowell barron, democrat incumbent

http://www.followthemoney.org/datab...or_details.phtml?u=14409&y=2010&ince=1&incs=1


Took me two minutes to find this. Can't research more, at work atm. I'm pro business, except when they screw me

Fair enough. I will admit this topic needs more research. There are multiple conclusions to be drawn from the links you found. Standing alone, that information is somewhat ambiguous.

 

[Scruffy1207]

Yea, I just edited my post to say that. All it proves is BMC does give money to candidates.

 

[jsweet]

I seriously doubt that homebrew legislation is on BMC's radar (and really, we should be saying AB here, because they're the real big guns when it comes to lobbying). I imagine that if you asked them, their position would be "opposed", and since they do spend a lot on lobbying -- maintaining the three-tier system is crucial to AB's strangehold on the industry -- it's possible there is some incidental influence here, but I can't imagine it's a major factor.

OTOH, I also think it's naive to chalk it up solely to legislative ignorance. I have no doubt that the legislators are ignorant on this point, but I think it has more to do with the fact that it is tricky for an elected representative to take a position that can be perceived in any way, shape, or form as pro-alcohol, pro-drug, pro-crime, etc. Anti-drinking groups and conservative religious groups will scream bloody murder, regardless of how sensible the position may be, and it opens them up to attack ads in future elections, e.g. "Bob Smith voted in favor of legalizing the illicit production of alcohol in people's basements and closets, which would have opened up the door to rampant underage drinking. Why does Bob Smith think elementary school kids should get wasted?" etc.

Look at how hard it has been to modify the blue laws in NYS? Until a few years ago, you couldn't buy liquor on Sunday, and in my county you couldn't even buy beer until noon on Sunday. This was New York, for cryin' out loud! (Liquor stores still have more severely restricted hours on Sundays) In this case, there was some unusual opposition that came from small liquor store operators for whom Sunday was their day off, who feared they would be driven out of business by bigger stores capable of employing more staff (and indeed, I have seen one or two stores go out of business since then, but them's the breaks... if your business can only exist because your competitors are being forced to comply with a bizarre antiquated law that fringes on being a First Amendment violation, I dunno what to tell you...). But a lot of the opposition was also from anti-drinking groups, etc.

If there had not been an anti-homebrewing law to begin with in Alabama, I'm sure none of these politicians would care. But they can't be seen to be "pro-drinking", so they have to oppose legalizing it. I'm sure ignorance plays a big role too, but the imperative of being re-elected by an ignorant and judgmental electorate tells them what their default position should be for lack of any, you know, actual knowledge of the issue.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Having immersed myself into this a little more thanks to the various media coverage, it seems to me as if the local community and the BA/AHA didn't or couldn't properly prepare the bill's sponsor, the bill's sponsor was poorly prepared and didn't steer the debate (which centered on children and spirits) back on topic, and the representatives seem to be dumber than stones (despite Mr. Holmes being a "college educator").

I think waiting 3-5 years until re-introducing this bill, or introducing a more restrictive bill is the only way to legalize homebrewing there given what happened this year.