AG IPA Advice

[ChihuahuaTN]

Hello All Homebrewers,

This is my first post so be easy on me!

I need some advice. I did my first AG brew this Monday and I have a few questions regarding fermentation time and bottling time.

Mondays AG brew went ok, I missed my mashing temp of 153 for 90min for a mash temp of 148-149 for 90min. Fly sparging went ok, it took 35 min @175 tried hard to dial in the flow rate. Boiled for 90 min and added to fermenter. OG 1.053 (after boil), currently fermenting @66F in my basement.

Recipe I followed:

IPA (5gallon Batch)
8.75lb 2-Row Pale Ale Malt
.5lb Crystal Malt
3oz Kent Golding hops (add at boil)
1oz Fuggles (add 70 min in)
White Labs Long Fog Ale Yeast
Mashing temp @ 153 for 90min
Boil for 90min
Ferment for 9 days and rack to secondary fermenter for 21 days and bottle.


Question 1: Can I bottle after 9 days of fermentation? Is there a significant advantage to secondary fermentation for a few weeks prior to bottling (depending on my recipe)?

Questions2: Did I botch my recipe with my low mash temp or can I expect a drier beer.

Thanks,

LC

 

[CascadesBrewer]

1) Maybe at 9 days, but I find it is best to not rush bottling and just let the fermentation finish and let the beer clear..so 2 to 3 weeks. There is no value in a secondary for this beer.

2) With the lower temp mash the beer should be more fermentable, thus more alcohol. The alcohol adds some body and sweetness to a beer, so I would not expect it to be too "dry"...though you have a pretty light grain bill. What type of Crystal? 60L?

 

[IslandLizard]

Using secondaries is generally not needed or even recommended, there is nothing to secondary ferment or anything they cure.

Especially for IPAs and other hoppy beers secondaries can be detrimental, as air exposure and following oxidation are likely. So is the chance of infections.
Just leave it where it is, everything should settle on the bottom of the fermenter a week (or 2) after fermentation has completed. Cold crashing in a fridge (or temp controlled freezer) speeds up the clearing, as does adding a little pre-dissolved gelatin.

Now, for a beer to be called an IPA they really demand a dry hop after fermentation has completed, ideally 3-7 days before packaging. Just toss them in loose. They'll sink too over time, perhaps coaxed with a little stir after a few days.

Few Qs:

• Why mash for 90'? 60' is fine.
• Why boil for 90'? 60' should do, except when using (certain) Pilsner malts.
• Look into batch sparging, 2x using about half of your sparge water volume for each. It doesn't have to be that precise. It beats fly sparging in time spent, while you'll enjoy similar efficiency.

This doesn't look like a good IPA recipe, definitely by modern standards. Look up some newer/better ones. Unless you don't like hops. But the yeast you used is great! Did you make a starter? Save some of the yeast cake for a next brew.

 

[RM-MN]

Just a few thoughts:
1. A recipe is a record of what someone else did. It should be used to give direction but not necessarily followed completely.
2. A mash length does 2 things, it gives time for the gelatinization of the starches so the enzymes can act on them to convert to sugars, and it allows time to extract flavor. 90 minutes was used in this case because the writer had no method to ensure conversion and flavor extraction so they went to excess. I get my grains milled very fine as I can work with that since I BIAB. I have used both the iodine test for residual starch in the grain particles and my refractometer to test the gravity and found that my conversion is over in much less time and have found that it takes more time to extract flavor. I now mash for 30 minutes because I know that conversion is over and flavor extracted.
3. Most hop flavors are boiled away in the long boil so choosing the hop for the 60 or 90 minute boil is mostly choosing the one that gives the bitterness you want rather than for any flavor imparted. I often use Magnum or Nugget for their higher alpha acid content as it takes far less to get the bitterness level I want. Most of the bittering from the hops happens within 30 minutes. If I feel it necessary I can increase the amount of bittering hop to account for this. The other reasons for longer boils is to darken the wort through the Maillard reaction and to boil off excess liquid.
4. You would probably be fine with bottling the beer on day 9 but you need to be totally certain that the beer is done fermenting. The only way to be certain is to use the hydrometer and sample a couple days apart to see that the beer has hit the expected gravity and is no longer changing. I often start my ferment at a little lower temp than yours but after 5 to 7 days, I bring it to a warmer location to speed up the completion of the fermentation. If you bottle early, you get more sediment in the bottles and you will need to wait for the beer to mature in the bottles before drinking. Leaving the beer in the fermenter longer allows more sediment to settle out and it starts the maturing process.
5. I noticed that you did a mash out. That 175 degrees does stop enzyme activity but my question is, "was there any enzyme activity still going on at 90 minutes into the mash?" If not, the mash out did nothing but take more time and effort.

 

[Kirkwooder]

First. let me welcome you aboard. This is a great forum and you will get lots of good advise here. Like the last two posts. They are spot on.

A couple things I will ad. Patients is the hardest thing for most new brewers to learn. 9 days seems like an eternity to most new brewers. While most beers will be well past finished at 9 days some may take much longer. Wait for your airlock activity to stop and the beer to clear. For me, the "dropping clear" is an almost certain sign that your beer is finished. At this point, take your first gravity reading. If the reading is close to where you expect this beer to finish, I'm guessing some where near 1.010, then either dry hop, or package.

Your recipe looks like it could use a dry hop addition to me as well. Find a hop that you like, or at least like the flavor profile of, and add a couple ounces to the fermentor for the last three days.

 

[ChihuahuaTN]

Thank you to all those who responded I really appreciate the help; let me answer some questions.

This doesn't look like a good IPA recipe, definitely by modern standards. Look up some newer/better ones. Unless you don't like hops. But the yeast you used is great! Did you make a starter? Save some of the yeast cake for a next brew.

I got the recipe from the book Homebrew Favorites by Karl F. Lutzen the only change I made was the yeast. There are hundreds of AG IPA recipes on the internet I figured I'd take one right out of a book to start with.

• Why mash for 90'? 60' is fine.

• Why boil for 90'? 60' should do, except when using (certain) Pilsner malts.

• Look into batch sparging, 2x using about half of your sparge water volume for each. It doesn't have to be that precise. It beats fly sparging in time spent, while you'll enjoy similar efficiency.

I followed the recipe for the 90min mash and 90min boil, I did understand that 60min should be fine. I elected to do fly sparging because I wanted to be a bit more precise and have higher efficiency (I do realize there are other factors involved in brewing efficiency). I used the SS brewtech fly sparging arm.
Anecdotally speaking when do my coffee V60 pour overs I sparge drip the water over the coffee grinds the extraction is superior to any other method refractory checked. I know I know its coffee and we are talking beer brewing but influenced my decision.

I noticed that you did a mash out. That 175 degrees does stop enzyme activity but my question is, "was there any enzyme activity still going on at 90 minutes into the mash?" If not, the mash out did nothing but take more time and effort.

I was aiming for 165-170 sparge water temp; I underestimated how efficient my SS brewtech HLT was, that was my mistake I figured 5-10 degree drop once in the tank. I also agree with you regarding any enzyme activity, 90 min maybe too long and I wasted my time.

Your recipe looks like it could use a dry hop addition to me as well. Find a hop that you like, or at least like the flavor profile of, and add a couple ounces to the fermentor for the last three days.

The consensus seems to be:
1) Leave in my fermenter for 3 weeks, don't do a secondary fermentation.
2) Dry hop addition 5-7 day prior to bottling
3) Get a better IPA recipe
4) More reading on mash+boil times
5) More AG brews (I'm planning another on Monday)

I will keep everyone updated on the progress....

 

[IslandLizard]

I got the recipe from the book Homebrew Favorites by Karl F. Lutzen the only change I made was the yeast. There are hundreds of AG IPA recipes on the internet I figured I'd take one right out of a book to start with.

It's probably a British style IPA recipe, given the hops used.

The I in IPA means India, they added dry hops to the barrels for their long journey on the ocean to their destination. Most likely to prevent spoiling during the trip.
If you want to stay with the recipe's flavor profile add 2 or 3 ounces of Fuggles to the fermenter 5-7 days before packaging. Or 1 oz Fuggles plus 2 oz Goldings.

Give the beer a little stir a few hours later, or the next day, as a layer of green hop matter will most likely float on top. You want that immersed so the hop oils can be extracted. Be gentle, don't whip air into it, air is bad. You could use the back end of a long plastic brew spoon, there's a little rectangular paddle on it.

Q:
What kind of fermenter do you do use?

If you have a spare (fermentation) fridge, you could cold crash the batch 3-5 days after adding the dry hops, and leave in there for 2 days. Most hop matter and yeast will sink to the bottom, leaving mostly clear or hazy beer on top.

When transferring to the bottling bucket, stick your siphon or racking cane in the middle of the beer, not on the bottom in the trub layer. Lower it as the beer level drops. When getting close to the trub layer, slowly tilt the fermenter toward the siphon to keep the beer well deep. Leave about a quart of beer behind.
Prevent sucking air, and don't splash beer. Air is bad for beer (except at the moment of pitching yeast).

Swirl up the yeast cake, so it's homogenous and pour into one or more sanitized mason jars. Lid and store in fridge for your next IPA.

 

[IslandLizard]

More Homebrew Favorites: More Than 260 New Brews! Paperback – January 7, 1997

The year of publication explains a lot about your IPA recipe and techniques used. A lot has changed since, especially in IPAs. Read around.

 

[ChihuahuaTN]

Q:
What kind of fermenter do you do use?

7gal SS brewtech conical fermenter...

If you want to stay with the recipe's flavor profile add 2 or 3 ounces of Fuggles to the fermenter 5-7 days before packaging. Or 1 oz Fuggles plus 2 oz Goldings.

Lizard I'm going to take your advice and add the Fuggles and Golding... thank you again

 

[ChihuahuaTN]

Updates: Currently on day 10 of fermentation I plan to do dry hopping additions (this Saturday day 12) and let that sit for 4 days and then cold crash for 6 days (while I am traveling). My intention is to bottle the day after I return and letting the bottles sit for 3 weeks prior to drinking. I'll take some pics along the way and share with you my progress ...fingers crossed...Cheers

 

[brownni5]

If you want to make an IPA with EKG and Fuggles - go for it. Some people think it can't be an IPA if it doesn't have Citra/Mosaic. Nothing wrong with a classic English IPA that I can see. In fact, I for one would probably like it better than a West coast IPA - mmm, Fuggles!

That's the great thing about home brewing - make what you want and enjoy the process!

 

[ChihuahuaTN]

Update: Dry Hopped on Saturday with 2 ounces of Fuggles and moved the fermenter upstairs for a slight temp increase (currently at 70F). I'm going to let it sit and cold crash at day 22 (as I am out of town); I'll keep everyone informed.....fingers crossed!

 

[ChihuahuaTN]

Update: I let the beer sit in the fermenter for 23days and then cold crashed at 39F for two days. I bottled at day 25. In order to minimize oxidation priming sugar (dissolved in 2 cups) was added via sterile syringe to each champagne bottle the amount was calculated per bottle. Using a bottle filling wand the bottles where filled directly from the fermenter and capped. I’m going to sample a bottle at 2 weeks and wait for 3 weeks for rest. I’ll keep everyone informed,

Cheers,

Mike

 

[IslandLizard]

Looks like a winner!

Just keep those good looking green bottles in the dark. ^
Sunlight, and even fluorescent light will skunk them in no time.

 

[ChihuahuaTN]

I want to thank everyone for all the help and advice... 6 weeks later the IPA is a classic Brit and I think it's ok/good with hoppy and peppery finish...lacking a pedigree from the "West Coast". Not terrible for my first AG... much to learn and tons more to grow. More new posts to follow....Cheers Chihuahua