Advice on how to enjoy homebrewing over the years without becoming an alcoholic.

[sibelman]

Of course, addiction is a terrible thing. Also, there's general alcohol-associated health risks. Quantity advice varies, but even non-addicts may be wise to cut back.

Will I live longer, or will it just seem longer?

 

[<'))))><]

Thanks everyone for the responses. Some good and honest advice. I don't have a problem sticking to one or two, but i do find myself drinking beer most days in a week which didn't feel right. I think keeping it to the weekend is a good way to go, which i hear from several people. I did a dry January this year, and plan to keep doing that.

 

[sibelman]

concerned at all

Alcoholism can devastate a family. Happily, not mine. Not to pick at word choice, but in the interest of clarity: any intake of ethanol should raise basic concern, 'cuz it's a strong toxin. Addiction is also a concern, and the OP's question.

Moderate use is socially normal, especially on HBT. Regular users should be mindful in their (our!) drinking, because there are important concerns.

Perhaps easy for me to say - at 67, my body can no longer tolerate even the occasional excesses of my younger self.

 

[Airborneguy]

I drink a lot, I have for a long time and quite frankly I doubt that will ever change. I don’t want it to.

But… I brew moderate to low alcohol beers. I only drink in the evening/afternoon regardless of my schedule. I have zero issues not drinking should my daily activities preclude doing so. I don’t order beer out and only drink with meals if the place is known for good cocktails… in other words, I don’t NEED to drink. No hangovers, rarely even buzzed.

Point is, I know I’m the extreme other end, but admittedly heavy drinking doesn’t necessarily mean alcoholic.

You have to know yourself. My closest friend and a cousin are both legit alcoholics. If they ever have another single drink, their lives will go to ****, and have been at times in the past. I’ve seen up close and personal what it can do to people. I feel I have enough experience and know myself well enough by this point to be able to say those concerns don’t apply to me.

 

[rmchair]

Not a good idea for most people to put their wife in charge of regulating their beer intake.
That can lead to alcoholism, divorce, jail, etc.

 

[minmaxx77]

Excellent discussion. IMO its not solely on how much one consumes but rather relationship or mentality around drinking.

Do not drink every day. If you are setting yourself a limit like "only 2 a day" or something like this, it is already borderline.

Definitely second this. drinking every day even one may easily turn a strong habit(addiction) sooner or later.
Limiting to weekends can be great usual strategy. But even then it would be good idea occasionaly to go full week (workdays+weekend) without drinking (including NON alcoholic "alcohol").

Weekdays we are anyway busy with long work and other duties that those few evening hours without drink pass quickly. But in the weekend WITHOUT drinking you really can asses yourself- Do you find youself thinking alot about beer, maybe you even have to fight the urge to crab the drink? OR Can you still have fun, relax? Even "not noticing" that you didn't drink? (first case you already have problem or are at borderline)

IMO, drinking low alcohol beer will only encourage one to drink more quantity.

And isn't denying that you have a problem one of the first signs you might have a problem?

And yes. I would say those restrictions apply to low or non alcoholic beer almost the same way. Since the habit or addiction can be mental or emotional relation to drinking (im sorry if thats not correct way to put it in english). Yes one wont get drunk and therfor avoid physical sideffects but he might be just fooling himself in case he has to drink non alcoholic beer to satisfy his cravings. Then its clear one has addiction

 

[<'))))><]

This is what we do in Wisconsin, so if I were you I'd move to Wisconsin and not worry about.

That’s part of the problem. I am from Wisconsin. Seems like everyone here either drinks trunkloads of Miller or whiskey (not what I am going for), or doesn’t drink (a good way to avoid alcoholism, but not compatible with a homebrewing hobby). That’s in part why i posted here, even though I do talk about it with people in my life. I thought HBT might have a perspective worth hearing.

 

[Miraculix]

Excellent discussion. IMO its not solely on how much one consumes but rather relationship or mentality around drinking.

Definitely second this. drinking every day even one may easily turn a strong habit(addiction) sooner or later.
Limiting to weekends can be great usual strategy. But even then it would be good idea occasionaly to go full week (workdays+weekend) without drinking (including NON alcoholic "alcohol").

Weekdays we are anyway busy with long work and other duties that those few evening hours without drink pass quickly. But in the weekend WITHOUT drinking you really can asses yourself- Do you find youself thinking alot about beer, maybe you even have to fight the urge to crab the drink? OR Can you still have fun, relax? Even "not noticing" that you didn't drink? (first case you already have problem or are at borderline)

And yes. I would say those restrictions apply to low or non alcoholic beer almost the same way. Since the habit or addiction can be mental or emotional relation to drinking (im sorry if thats not correct way to put it in english). Yes one wont get drunk and therfor avoid physical sideffects but he might be just fooling himself in case he has to drink non alcoholic beer to satisfy his cravings. Then its clear one has addiction

Good points. I agree with that, especially what you said about addiction mentality is important to recognise I think.

It feels completely natural for me to drink during the weekend evenings and it feels unnatural not to drink at that time. That is already a problematic tendency. It would be good to turn this around.

It would also leave you with more energy during the day on the weekend. I have the tendency to stay up longer when drinking, alcohol numbs the tiredness a bit. The result is sleeping in next day plus having less than optimal recovery during the night.

Is that really worth it is the question I guess. I think it doesn't have to be like that, but it's crucial to be honest to oneself to turn it around in a way that being sober is the state that feels normal during the weekend evening. And that having a beer or two is entirely optional and not the automatical thing to do just because one can.

That can be actually quite a big thing to accomplish!

 

[sampling6391]

IMO just because someone says they drink 1-2 or even 3 a day doesn’t automatically mean they’re a borderline alcoholic at all. There are a lot more factors with alcoholism than quantity of alcohol consumed. Someone struggling with problems with health or financial which is leading to a depressed state in which they have a few drinks after a hard days work to cope is different from someone enjoying a few home brews while they have dinner or watch the sunset. They both stay under CDC threshold but they both are having drinks for very different reasons…

 

[Agent]

The toughest part of this sort of conversation is recognizing that the vast majority of us (active homebrewers) are in the top third of population for alcohol use, and it's nearly zero by comparison for the remaining two thirds.

So every conversation lumps an otherwise responsible 6-pack a day person with the twice divorced fella with a couple DUIs under their belt. Medically speaking, it's all the same.

 

[minmaxx77]

I have the goal to get really shredded so any additonal caloric intake is a hindrance for me atm.

As a gymnerd i know this myself. Two hobbies that wont go well together. Even as litte as 2 beers can interfare(not only in terms of calories) with muscle gain, fat loss, perfomance. especialy when you are dieting.

it feels unnatural not to drink at that time. That is already a problematic tendency. It would be good to turn this around.

Just skip the beer for 2 weekends. Maybe have max 1 beer during 2 week period and not in the weekend.

 

[minmaxx77]

I never had problem with drinking. Im lucky enough that i really dont like the feeling of being drunk or even close to being drunk.
Still... Years ago, before craftbeer was a known thing were i live i used to frequently drink light lagers. Not much but there might have been more days i had beer than those when i didnt.
So i did something similar:

I did a dry January this year, and plan to keep doing that.

I was young and had to be better than everybody else. So i decided 2 months without any alcohol. Including non alcoholic beer, cider, wine etc. Because for this challange thats cheating. After 2 months i felt why stop now? And continued for another 2 months before i finally cracked the beer can. It tasted nowhere near as good as i remembered. It wasnt bad. It was just another cold drink.

After that i didnt feel any urge to have beer frequently nor at all actually. Since i was so long without it and didnt feel need to drink i drank when my "brain remembered" to do so. Sometimes maybe once a week, other times once a month. Sometimes few months past by without any alcohol.(And it suited well for me becaus that time i started focusing more on working out and dieting)

It wasnt until i "found" craftbeer i started to enjoy beer more frequently. But still very rarely for others thanks to my past.

Now that i brew myself its very easy to have from time to time "too many" or too frequently even tho there might occasionaly be 2-3 weeks in row that i "forget" to drink. But i dont want to build habits nor does it suit with my training life style.
I really like to brew and exbeeriment and like the craftbeer. So i give away a lot. Brew smaller 15l (3gal) batches and try to remember RDWHAHB.

 

[Miraculix]

I used to give away a lot too, but now most of my friends do not drink anymore... And I am sitting here with about 35 litres of strong stout and old ale

Luckily, these store pretty well!

I have brewed so many beers and the odd thing is that I really crave light lagers. I will brew one next probably. Small batch, ten litres or so, trying to decrease my stock rather than increasing it. Would be good if I would come to a point where I run out of homebrew. That won't happen I`m afraid.

 

[Airborneguy]

I find it very hard to give away nowadays as well. In the past, being younger, it was just much more common to have people over for various reasons or to be going to other’s homes. So I wasn’t even “giving it away” per se.

Now, in our prime child raising years as the kids get older, we’re all just too busy to get together much. So it’s basically just me and my homebrew club drinking all my beer.

 

[balrog]

What rules do you follow to keep beer around as a hobby long term without easing gradually into more dependence?

From the temple of Apollo in Delphi, "Μηδὲν ἄγαν", or, nothing too much.

And a healthy dose of what @jerrylotto advises, give a lotto away.

 

[micraftbeer]

I've got two thoughts that don't seem to be touched on here. Both are things that I didn't consciously do for consumption reduction purposes, but looking back, they did just that.

1. It's OK to pour beer out. In my younger days this would be sacrilege. But if I make a beer and it doesn't turn out like I like it. I don't have to drink it. Pour it down the drain. If I pour myself a pint and halfway through I lose my enthusiasm- down the drain. If I made a beer and it's great, but I get bored of it, or the flavor starts to go south before I finish it- down the drain.

Of course the best case is to plan brews around hosting a party, attending a party, finding neighbors to take a 6-pack of whatever I brewed, etc. But if I can't find a good use for it, it's way better to pour it down the drain than force myself into some bad habits and drink when I don't want to, or drink more than I want to.

2. Get ANOTHER hobby in addition to homebrew. I know, who has the time!? For me, it's martial arts. 3-4x/week I've got evening classes. I can't go do that buzzed, so I don't drink before. When I get back, I'm tired and usually don't feel like drinking. For me, I'm not consciously forcing myself to go exercise and reduce beer drinking- then it becomes a drag. You're nagging yourself. I want to do the classes. The not drinking is just a by-product of my OTHER hobby. It doesn't even have to be physical exercise, there are tons of hobbies that don't require physical exertion but do go better with a clear mind.

 

[Witherby]

Like the OP, my father was a functional alcoholic who became a not-so functional alcohol (fortunately sober for 30 years now). I remember him drinking an occasional beer when I was a kid, then gin and tonics when I was in high school, but when I came home for a few months in my mid-20s it was just straight cheap vodka. So right off the bat I knew that I should stick to beer.

I pretty much brew only lower ABV beers (bitters, milds, pilsners, etc.) and will make session versions of other styles. I have no interest in big beers any more. And I rarely drink more than one beer a night, except for on the weekends when I might have 2 or 3.

One way I gauge my alcohol dependence is whether or not I buy a beer when I go to a concert or sporting event. When the only option is $15 fake craft beer, do you feel the need to buy a beer? For me the answer is no 90% of the time. If you feel the need to drink 2 or 3 (or more) of those beers, you might have a problem.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I have to check if Wisconsin's history is based on loads of Polish immigrants....

Many from Germany settled Wisconsin. it’s true!

 

[day_trippr]

I know, it's a serious topic, but for those who could use a levity injection...

 

[minmaxx77]

The not drinking is just a by-product of my OTHER hobby

Yes same with me. Because i have 4 kids and want to have time with them in the evening i workout early in the morning while everybody else sleeps anyways. Wich means i go straight to bed after i put kids to sleep. And having beer every night is not gonna help me get better sleep.
On the other hand i tend do drink more when I cant hit the gym for longer time.

Would be good if I would come to a point where I run out of homebrew. That won't happen I`m afraid

It happened to me. Even tho i gave away a lot. I still ended up seperate fridge half full of beer. And since i was busy renovating our home on top of work and busy family life I didnt brew for a while. It took 6 months before i ran out of beer and finally picked up brewing again this january. Now i have already brewed 8 batches under 3months. First 6 were over 5gal. First 3 are gone thx to the many friends. Expect few bottles wich i always want to lager for longer. One didnt turn out good so i let it lager but if i run out of empty bottles i start pouring it. Last two were only 3-4gal batched. Yet my fridge is full again. But i am okay with this i want to have variety of beer styles available if im having guests over.
From now on i try to brew smaller batches and less frequently. So the new beer doesnt get ready faster than I and my friends can drink. And i dont feel pressured to drink to just free up the space.

Sorry for multiple long posts

 

[corkybstewart]

I try to stick to the CDC guidelines of 1-2 drinks per day. I occasionally make exceptions for special occasions (e.g. birthday, family in town, etc.).

If you have a spouse or housemate, or even a good friend that you keep in touch with regularly, ask them to keep you accountable. Express your goal and have them check in every month or so. I know my wife will tell me when it becomes a problem, so I'm a little less concerned than I would be if I lived alone.

If you have beer on draft, use a smaller glass. I often use an 11oz glass, which holds 9oz of beer plus head.

As others have said, focus on lower ABV styles. Berliner weisse, gose, saison, English mild, etc.

Good post, but I disagree with one thing. I found that drinking a 22 oz. glass of beer was enough and it kept me from drinking 2 12 oz bottles over the same time frame. But I can easily make a bomber last for 2 hours.
I was a serious homebrewing alcoholic with up to 10 beers on tap and my upcoming retirement had me terrified I'd drink myself to death like my younger brother. But once I retired and never had to deal with clients or employees my desire to drink evaporated. So my advice is to quit your job and enjoy life.(joking)

 

[Bill Tong]

This is quite an inspirational video from the good folks over at Clawhammer

 

[MaxStout]

2. Get ANOTHER hobby in addition to homebrew. I know, who has the time!? For me, it's martial arts. 3-4x/week I've got evening classes. I can't go do that buzzed, so I don't drink before. When I get back, I'm tired and usually don't feel like drinking. For me, I'm not consciously forcing myself to go exercise and reduce beer drinking- then it becomes a drag. You're nagging yourself. I want to do the classes. The not drinking is just a by-product of my OTHER hobby. It doesn't even have to be physical exercise, there are tons of hobbies that don't require physical exertion but do go better with a clear mind.

For me, it's woodworking, which I have enjoyed since long before I started home brewing. Still enjoy it. And WW + drinking do not mix. I keep an 8-12 hour bottle-to-throttle rule with power tools. Once the beers are opened no more tool time until the next day. Table saws, lathes and jointers are scary enough stone cold sober.

 

[balrog]

Many from Germany settled Wisconsin. it’s true!

I know, it's a serious topic, but for those who could use a levity injection...

A Wisconsin post and a Mayonnaise post, together.

Coincidence?

I think not.

 

[Draft Master Flash]

I live in a small little town located in Southern California in the Inland Empire, famous for it's DUIs. I quickly learned that drinking beer is a privilege that I don't want to lose. I have some friends who's lives have been ruined because of alcohol and the police who can't drink at all. They are just misearable. Seeing this alone builds responsibility knowing a good thing that's worth protecting. Also just drinking on weekends makes something to look forward getting through the week. I think a lot of problems are caused by over stepping one's boundaries.

DMF

 

[MaxStout]

A Wisconsin post and a Mayonnaise post, together.

Coincidence?

I think not.

Need cheese curds to make the WI trifecta.

 

[Agent]

My personal record on curd freshness was 7 minutes old.

Now there is a high that one could chase the rest of their life and never reach again.

 

[Velnerj]

I'm pretty much obsessed with beer but I am not an alcoholic nor do I think I have an addiction. I think about beer a lot and I even work in the beer industry. I homebrew (of course) and I get free commercial beer. I wear beer swag and pretty much everyone who knows me knows I love beer.

But I am a lightweight drinker compared to what I have read on this thread. I probably have 2-4 beers a week on average. My 5 gallon batches last me 3-4 months (current batch is going on 5 months (and yes still tastes good to me). My system only allows for one batch at a time because my kegerator doubles as a ferm chamber. So I have no pipeline. When a keg kicks I go at least one month without homebrew. And I usually only brew 4 times a year.

These are bottlenecks I've put in place to tap the brakes. One fear of mine is that if I become an alcoholic (besides the destruction it causes) I will have to come to a point where I can never drink beer and that is enough to keep my drinking light.

Also I was wondering if I was an alcoholic due to the fact that beer plays a big role in my life. But the signs of addiction usually means that it disrupts your healthy parts of your life. I'm very rarely "drunk" and I haven't seen it have any negative effects on other areas of my life.

But if you are worried using caution is the best approach.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

Another thing to take into consideration about drinking beer or any other alcohol. The 1-2 daily is “okay” parameter is for men, and it’s for a 12oz serving of session beer and equivalent wine and spirits, about 5oz wine or 1oz of spirits. This perhaps 3 is considered “safe for a healthy man” not safe to drive and may not be safe to mix with other substances.

For women the research is not clear at all on what the safe amount is. Yes there is plenty of literature stating a glass of wine or beer has some bioflavonoids, minerals etc, and may be good for health. However, there is also a plethora of research downplaying those and looking at the health or disease of moderate to heavy drinkers and it doesn’t look very good.

Before being diagnosed with a substantial illness I was having a beer with dinner the nights I ate at home, so most of the time, and having more on some weekends. Long story short, after about 10 months of treatment and skipping beer accept for a half beer on a holiday I really limit the alcohol now, and I would think that it may have played a role in my health decline.

So, my brew buddies to enjoy this hobby and not become alcoholic or experience a serious illness, brew what you like and you can even keep brewing, just listen to your body and a take the feedback about your drinking from the people that care about you. If your spouse is on your butt about it ask yourself why. Are you getting drunk a lot falling asleep? Can you go without it?

Brew other things too, make the hop water and kombucha, (not too sweet) both are considered health tonics.

One final thought, if you find yourself drinking mostly to change the way you feel, or intentionally seeking to get hammered, and not because you are having a beverage then that might be a good reason to seek some professional help. Be well !!!

 

[MaxStout]

My personal record on curd freshness was 7 minutes old.

Now there is a high that one could chase the rest of their life and never reach again.

You'd have to go to the cheese factory and stand there with your mouth open below the chute.

Back on topic, it'd be interesting to note how a booze-friendly state like WI compares to other states in terms of alcoholism or DUI rates per capita. The data is out there, I just haven't looked.

Wisconsin has a very strong tradition of "tavern culture." It's sort of similar to pub culture in UK and Ireland, a place for everyone to hang out. In fact, under-aged people can legally drink in bars and restaurants in WI if a parent/guardian is present.

By contrast, Minnesota takes a more conservative approach to alcohol. After all, this is the state that brought us Prohibition (Volstead Act). We only started allowing Sunday sales about 10 years ago, after years of the bills' supporters fighting opposition. Temperance sentiments still run deep here.

The MN/WI booze dichotomy is probably due to demographics. Both states have similar populations, but WI was settled mostly by Germans, and MN by more conservative Scandinavians.

My brother lives in WI and we visit a lot. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a bar there. He's been sober 30+ years, but he's the commander of his local Legion, so he hangs out with all the drinkers. Takes a lot of willpower to do that.