Adding "Mash" to Secondary Ferm AKA Help Me HBT, You're My Only Hope

[jbenguinn]

Hey team,

Happy Tuesday morning to you all. I'd like to pose a question that perhaps many new brewers face.

I recently completed my first brew. It's NB's 5 gallon nut brown ale extract kit. It's shaping up to be a successful, albeit mild nut brown ale; just under 5 gallons.

My plan is to bottle 2 gallons of it this week before I leave town for 15 days. I've found a helpful priming calculator to determine how much priming solution I'll need for this.

For the other 2+ gallons, I'm thinking about adding at least a gallon "mash" of molasses and some oats to the primary. My question is, will my yeast reactivate and convert this second "mash" if its already run its course on the original brew? Is this procedure guaranteed to cause off-flavors?

My motivation to do this is to bump ABV while hopefully increase mouthfeel (with the oats). I'm also just curious to see what will happen. I don't mind sacrificing a couple gallons of what will likely be (again) a mild, mediocre brown ale. I have two more 5 gallon extract kits to brew in the new year (Irish red and Sierra Madre pale), so my pipeline will be fine once they're brewed. And I already have the oats and molasses is cheap.

Unless there's any glaring "No's" or "Don't do this, you're crazy" responses, I'll likely try it out. Any advice, recommendations, words of warning will be much appreciated.

Thanks y'all!

 

[chickypad]

Molasses and oats is not a mash. Mashing is where the enzymes in malt convert starches in the malted grains and adjuncts into fermentable sugars, it has nothing to do with yeast. Oats don't have any enzymes, to get anything out of them you need to do an actual mash. You could try maltodextrine to add body, should be some threads on that. You can add various sugars though (cane sugar, corn sugar, candi syrup, fruit, honey, molasses, etc.) and the yeast should ferment those sugars.

 

[jbenguinn]

Molasses and oats is not a mash. Mashing is where the enzymes in malt convert starches in the malted grains and adjuncts into fermentable sugars, it has nothing to do with yeast. Oats don't have any enzymes, to get anything out of them you need to do an actual mash. You could try maltodextrine to add body, should be some threads on that. You can add various sugars though (cane sugar, corn sugar, candi syrup, fruit, honey, molasses, etc.) and the yeast should ferment those sugars.

Interesting. Thanks for the clarification, Chickypad! I guess I should have been more specific in my proposed process. I was planning on doing a boil to dissolve the molasses and then steep some (cooked/cereal) oats at standard mashing temps (150ish degrees). But you're saying that any fermentable sugars the oats would provide won't actualize unless the enzymes from a malt grain are introduced to the mash?

My thought was that the molasses would provide the additional sugars I'm looking for and the steeped oat cereal would simply convey the "oat" mouthfeel. I guess I'm curious if that mouthfeel is depended upon releasing the fermentable sugars in the oats via the malt enzyme?

Haha hopefully that make senses. Thanks again.

 

[fuzzy2133]

Op Oats need to be mashed with a base malt like pale 2 row to convert their starches to sugars yeast can consume. What you are proposing using cooked oats will introduce starches that will give your beer an odd taste.
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/how-the-mash-works/the-starch-conversion-saccharification-rest

What chickypad recommended would be easier, you can get maltodextrin (increases body/mouth feel like oats) in a powder and dissolve it in some water with the molasses to add in secondary/tritary.

 

[adamyoung]

Hi JBenguinn,

Depending on how your partial mash of oats goes, you may wind up with some of the dextrinous, complex sugars that have less sweetness and introduce the mouthfeel that comes with adjuncts. You may also get some starches and proteins which will to varying degrees remain unprocessed by the yeast in your fermenter. The molasses will likely have a fairly respectable makeup of simpler, more fermentable sugars. I'd recommend a little light reading on what the makeup of the resulting wort you'll compose will turn out to be, and see what rough percentages will be in terms of fermentable and non-fermentable sugars, as well as proteins and starches (unless you've done that already). Good beer and the making thereof seems to benefit from being really nerdy and consumed by the process and the particulars (in my humble, possibly myopic, opinion). Good luck and glad to hear you're having fun and experimenting with it!

 

[kh54s10]

I don't know the science, but to get ferment-able sugars from the oats they need (enzymes?) from malted grain to convert. You will get something from the oats, what I am not sure. You will get sugars, some flavor and a higher ABV from the molasses. I would go for it. There will be plenty of yeast to do the fermentation.

I brewed the nut brown kit. I would not describe it as mild or mediocre, depending on what you are comparing it to. I thought it was a great beer as it was.

 

[rhys333]

As others say above, you need to mash the oats with a base malt. If you add boiled oats directly to your fermentor, you're just mixing porridge oatmeal into your beer. Also agree that maltodextrin is your best option in this situation.

 

[chickypad]

Yes, like the others I'm worried you will just get some hazy, starchy water trying to steep oats. I certainly wouldn't do it after fermentation if I were you. Next time though you could do a small partial mash with a couple lbs of base malt plus the oats in 150* water. Then add the wort you get to your boil.

 

[Legume]

Molasses adds a preaty wierd flavor to beer, I would not recomend using much.
You might be happier adding some D45 or D90 candi syrup, if you want to bump up the ABV, flavor, and color.