Adding grains to a kit

[thehorse1]

Hello. I've now done three kts plus an all-grain brew on a course. I'm currently poised to buy some spraymalt, speciality grains and hops to add to a kit in order to attempt a really great smoked porter.

What I don't know is how much of the kit's water (and possibly extract) to replace with my steeped grain wort. And also, the quantitites involved. To keep the cost down, I was thinking of modifying a one-can kit; these usually ask for 1kg sugar which I would replace with spraymalt. But can you have to much malt?

So, I'm thinking of getting a Coopers one-can dark ale kit (wha's the best; and does it make a difference?), and adding 1kg of spraymalt to that.

Then, I've got Maris Otter pale malt for my base, plus cholocalte and rauschmaltz for flavour. Given that my pot only holds four litres: in what proprtions should I steep these malts? I'm guesing 500g of pale, 300g chocolate and 200g smoked but that's a back-of-a-beermat guess. Lastly, when should I be adding my hops (Cascade and Columbus)? In the boil or dry hopping (is the Coopers wort hopped itself?).

Lots of questions, then. I've seen variations on the answer, but never with any quantities specified. I hope you can help.

 

[McKnuckle]

Lots of questions... but one thing to point out right away: Maris Otter is a base malt, and needs to be milled and mashed, not steeped.

Why not buy a bigger kettle as you begin this next phase of brewing? You'll need it - I can see where this is all going.

 

[thehorse1]

Ah yes, I think I knew that. If boiling, would I chuck those other grains in at the same time? I'm guessing this may intensify the flavour compared to steeping.

 

[Yooper]

Ah yes, I think I knew that. If boiling, would I chuck those other grains in at the same time? I'm guessing this may intensify the flavour compared to steeping.

No, you never want to boil your grains.

You mash (a steep with a prescribed amount of water at a prescribed temperature for about an hour) the grains, but not boil them.

In order to add things to the kit, -you'd have to know what you already have in the kit. Brewing is like cooking in that way- if you're making stew, you have to know some of the ingredients in order to add more. If you ask someone "Can this stew benefit from more salt and more carrots?", the answer would be that it would depend on how much salt and how many carrots are already in there.

The same is true of your kit. Maybe more grains are going to help, but without knowing what you've already got (which kit? what is in there already?), we can't possibly tell you which spray malt? which hops? Which grain? to use.

 

[Abilor]

Does the kit you have have instructions on the boil times, OG targets, and hops schedule?

 

[meatcleaver]

I use this recipe calculator to formulate my PM recipes.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/
it's easy & free

 

[meatcleaver]

if you aren't quite ready to write your own, maybe check the recipe database & find something you think you would like. then post the recipe & ask for help converting to PM. I typically do mini-mashes with a 6 lb jug of lme making up the bulk of the fermentables & then mash a few pounds of grain to get the rest.

 

[meatcleaver]

this looks like a good recipe. just omit the fruit & sub your rauchmalt for the cherry wood smoked
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=303765
Then use the recipe calculator to switch from ag to pm.

 

[MVKTR2]

The simplest online recipator(recipe calculator) is tastybrew dot com, then Brewer'sFriend and Brew Toad online calculators are more advanced and simple enough to use. My advice, use one of those to punch your ingredients into to understand fully what you're building. Looks like the Coopers can is 1.7 kilos or 3.75 lbs of 'Dark Liquid Malt Extract' aka LME.

The advice above is all good advice. Crush/mill your small amounts of steeping/mini-mash grains.

Depending on how fresh your smoked malt/rauchmalt is you'll need at least 400g or perhaps as much as 1-1.5 kilos all depending on what you're looking for and how fresh the malt is.

Your specific questions:
'Given that my pot only holds four litres: in what proprtions should I steep these malts?' - If adding no sugar or spraymalt/dry malt, I'd do 1 kilo Maris Otter, 220 grams chocolate malt, & 500 grams rauchmalt. Mash in 3 liters water at 145-158F (151 is ideal) for 60-75 minutes. Assuming you have a grain sock, if not just mash then pour through a cheese cloth lined strainer from your pot into a large container such as a drinking picture or another pot. Btw you really need to spend the $ on a larger pot for brewing. It can be a very cheap pot but 16 qts/ltr is ideal for extract brewing, 12 is comfortable, & 8 is an absolute minimum.

Option 2 and possibly the best option because of your small pot and possibly other limited utensiles would be to forgo grain additions altogether and simply add 2 lbs/1 kilo of Dark DME/spraymalt.

'Lastly, when should I be adding my hops (Cascade and Columbus)?' - Depends on what you want. Dry hopping will give you aroma & flavor with no perceived additional bitterness. Btw, the Coopers kit is pre-hopped. If you'd like a bit more bitterness throw the Cascade in 10 minutes before you decide to quit boiling. I'd dry hop with the other oz, just toss it in about 7-10 days after your last fermentation activity and let sit for an additional 5-10 days(opinions vary on duration).

Good luck.

 

[thehorse1]

Thanks for all these responses, everyone. Having loked at what I was going to do, I now see no point in having a kit component to this brew at all. Instead I'm buying a massive pan and going for the extract + steeped grains method.

 

[thehorse1]

If we could now assume that I've got a 15L pan, I was thinking of trying this one from Brew Your Own. The only thing I'm a little vague on is that doesn't specify how much water you steep with, and whether you top up the resultant wort to get five gallons. Any ideas? I would be substituting those hops with the ones I mentioned above, as they're used in one of my favourite porters by the Kernel. I'm alos dubious about the roasted barley (the flaked I understand)


6 lbs. Alexander's pale malt extract
3 lbs. smoked (rauch) malt
0.5 lb. black malt
0.5 lb. chocolate malt
0.5 lb. roasted barley
0.5 lb. crystal malt (80° L)
0.5 lb. flaked barley
10 AAU Chinook hops (bittering) (0.90 oz. of 10.8% alpha acid)
2 AAU Willamette hops (aroma) (0.50 oz. of 4.4% alpha acid) for 5 min
1/2 tsp. Irish moss last 15 minutes.
White Labs WLP001 California Ale Yeast
0.75 cup corn sugar (for bottling)

 

[McKnuckle]

If you want to brew 5 gallon batches, you really need a bigger kettle/pot (not a pan... I assume that's a translation to English). 15L is 4 gallons. You can brew a 2 gallon (7.5L) batch safely in a 15L pot. Possibly a 3 gallon (11.4L) batch if you really limit your boil-off, and watch it like a hawk. Otherwise, you'll always be topping up with water in the fermenter for bigger batches.

If you stick with a 5 gal (19L) recipe and are limited to a 15L pot, you should use as much water as possible in that pot. Aim to have about 3 gal (11.4L) of total liquid, including your extract, to boil with. Any higher is risking a boilover.

In that case, steep with the maximum liquid, then add your extract, and commence. After brewing, top up to 19L in the fermenter.

You can also brew a smaller batch and avoid the top-up, but if you don't know how to scale a recipe, perhaps save that for another time.

 

[thehorse1]

Thank you. It seems strange that you can use the same recipe with differing amounts of water in the FV. I'm guessing that topping it up would make for a lower-strngth brew? Is it possible to estimate what difference it would make?

 

[McKnuckle]

A recipe is used as a form of communication - i.e. to show others how to make "this" beer. As such, it is not just comprised of amounts of hops, grain, and adjuncts... a recipe also defines a target volume, gravity, bitterness, and color.

I don't see those key stats listed on what you posted.

So in fact, it's not that you can use differing amounts of water and it's "all the same" - it is NOT the same. With more water, you'll have less of most of the things noted (lower gravity/ABV, lighter color, less bitterness). You'll of course have more volume.

Brewing calculators including one for dilution are here:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/stats/

Most all-grain brewers seek to have a primary kettle that will fit all the water needed for the boil, eliminating any need to top-up (dilute) in the FV. I cited the scenario of topping up to you since you mentioned a 15L kettle, which is not large enough for a "standard" 5 gallon (19L) batch. You can always simply make less beeer - smaller batches. There's nothing magical about 5 gallons.

 

[thehorse1]

Wow, that Brewer's Friend calculator is really helpful, especially as it says how much ater I need to start and how much I need to top up with. I feel confident I can go and buy the ingredients and brew something half decent without a kit now. Any more tips for a smoked porter?

 

[MVKTR2]

To be clear for thehorse1 if you're doing extract or partial mash recipes you are completely fine performing what is called a partial boil rather than what is called a full boil. (google if the definition isn't readily apparent) With partial boils your hop utilization is lower, meaning you have to put hops in either earlier in the boil or put more hops in to extract bitterness. This generally speaking only has a real impact upon highly hopped beers.

Good luck, it is a great hobby no matter what level you pursue.