Adding baking soda to boil instead of mash

[osprey12]

Hi everyone, I have a recipe matching the "Black full" profile where beersmith is showing that the baking soda addition in the mash is raising the Ph to 5.6 which means I would need to add acid to get it down a little. Could I add the baking soda to the boil instead of the mash? Beersmith shows that if I do that the Ph would be around 5.3 which would be about where I would want it for the stout and not need to add acid. Does the baking soda do anything in the mash or is it just needed for the flavor profile?

Thanks!

 

[doug293cz]

Why are you even adding baking soda? It should only be used if you need to raise the pH. If adding it raises the pH too high, don't use it.

If a recipe is calling for it, it's probably because the water the recipe author used needed something to up the pH. Unless your water profile is exactly the same as a recipe author's, you shouldn't be blindly following the recipe's water additions.

Brew on

 

[osprey12]

That's a great question and I guess i'm not sure why i'm adding it. Beersmith said to add it so I was planning on adding it, thought it may have something to do with matching the water profile for "Black full" in Beersmith and not necessarily related to pH. I'm not following another recipes water additions, just taking RO water and matching it to the "Black full" profile, after doing this it gives me a number of additions, one of which is the baking soda which is pushing the pH up higher than desired.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I generally like a higher pH on my stouts. I usually target around 5.5-5.6 because I think it smooths out the final product. Lower pH in a stout comes across as "harsh" to me.

 

[marc1]

General water profiles that include alkalinity seem to do a lot of brewers a disservice, especially people newer to water treatments/chemistry.

 

[osprey12]

Well, if the baking soda is adding nothing to the flavor of the beer I guess I can just remove it. I'm not sure why Beersmith was trying to add it in.

This is the water profile and mash pH with and without the baking soda.

With Baking Soda:

Without Baking Soda:

 

[marc1]

Well, if the baking soda is adding nothing to the flavor of the beer I guess I can just remove it. I'm not sure why Beersmith was trying to add it in.

This is the water profile and mash pH with and without the baking soda.

With Baking Soda:

View attachment 723343View attachment 723344


Without Baking Soda:

View attachment 723345
View attachment 723346

You certainly don't want to add bicarbonate to your sparge water, so Beersmith is blindly feeding out a bad result based on the inputs and whatever it thinks it has to do. I haven't heard good things about Beersmith and water chemistry, this seems to say that it has a ways to go.

 

[osprey12]

You certainly don't want to add bicarbonate to your sparge water, so Beersmith is blindly feeding out a bad result based on the inputs and whatever it thinks it has to do. I haven't heard good things about Beersmith and water chemistry, this seems to say that it has a ways to go.

I'll try Bru'n Water then, I wanted to use beersmith due to ease of use since it supposedly accounted for the grains automatically, I never seem to know how each type of grain should be classified for bru'n water. Would you say the "Black full" looks like an appropriate water profile for an oatmeal stout or do you have one you would recommend? Should I just brew it as is without the baking soda and call it good? Thanks for the help!

 

[marc1]

I'll try Bru'n Water then, I wanted to use beersmith due to ease of use since it supposedly accounted for the grains automatically, I never seem to know how each type of grain should be classified for bru'n water. Would you say the "Black full" looks like an appropriate water profile for an oatmeal stout or do you have one you would recommend? Should I just brew it as is without the baking soda and call it good? Thanks for the help!

Water chemistry can have a big effect, but a lot of it is personal preference. As long as your mash pH is in the right ballpark and you're minerals aren't outrageous you'll be OK. Over many batches you can try to dial in salt preferences more.

"black full" is fine. Just use the baking soda only for adjustment of the predicted mash pH.

When your beer is done, you can try dosing drops of diluted gypsum and calcium (or sodium) chloride into a glass of it to see what they do for flavor. If you like it, increase that salt for the next brew.

Bru'n Water only has 4 types of grain to pick from (Base, Crystal, Roast, and Acid), so you should be able to figure it out reasonably quickly.

 

[hout17]

Just to add since Beersmith added the BW model my ph and acid predictions have been very close to what I am seeing in bru'n water. I've been hitting pretty close to the expected mash ph as measured with my ph meter I still use them both though just to double check.

Just throwing that in there I'm still learning of course but it looks like beersmith has improved prediction wise.

Just remove the baking soda after you have it match the profile you are going for then tweak from there.

 

[dwhite60]

They do make potassium bicarbonate. No sodium so it doesn't add saltiness. I had to use it in a mead once to bring the acidity down. Does the same thing.