Added Aerobic Acid or Campden tablet for packaging

[Hsuan-Tso Shen]

Hi All

After doing some studying,
originally, I plan to add "aerobic acid" and "Campden tablet" to have some insurance for my IPA and extend the shelf life during package.
The amount is as follows.

15L beer
3.5g aerobic acid
0.2g Campden tablet

However, after watching video from brulosophy as follows, it looks like that the Aerobic didn't work in the package stage.
https://youtu.be/h6eZq33A6QA?si=XSkZKqo_2U2GNj3t
So, does it ok and make sense to remove the aerobic acid, and only add 0.2g Campden tablet during package stage?

Thanks

 

[DuncB]

I add 0.5g of Ascorbic acid per 20litres at packaging and take a pinch of salt with the brulosophy " science "

 

[mac_1103]

Someone made a comment in another thread a week or so ago - triangle tests test the tasters not the beer. So yeah, don't get too worked up about Brulosophy "findings." Ascorbic acid may or may not be an effective way of protecting beer from post-packaging oxidation, but it's cheap and it certainly doesn't hurt anything.

 

[MaxStout]

I add 0.5g of Ascorbic acid per 20litres at packaging and take a pinch of salt with the brulosophy " science "

That's close to the amount of ascorbic acid I had been adding before bottling. Then I discovered in another thread that you could add up to about 1g/gallon (0.26g/liter) prior to packaging without any bad effects.

Some of the low oxygen brewing people also add a small dose of sodium metabisulfite at packaging, typically around 10-20 ppm.

 

[worlddivides]

Someone made a comment in another thread a week or so ago - triangle tests test the tasters not the beer. So yeah, don't get too worked up about Brulosophy "findings." Ascorbic acid may or may not be an effective way of protecting beer from post-packaging oxidation, but it's cheap and it certainly doesn't hurt anything.

It's also worth noting that the Brulosophy that was tested with the ascorbic acid added at packaging was added to 2 kegs that were not CO2 purged. This was clearly done because the tester probably thought that purging the kegs with CO2 would probably result in no perceptible difference. And I agree that a closed transfer to two CO2 purged kegs with one having ascorbic acid and the other without would probably result in no perceptible difference, at least for the first month or two. But having the two kegs completely filled with air, however, would have the opposite affect where you're introducing so much oxygen that the ascorbic acid probably is unable to really have enough of a perceptible effect. It's just too much oxygen.

 

[Redhouse Brewing]

I add 0.5g of Ascorbic acid per 20litres at packaging and take a pinch of salt with the brulosophy " science "

Hi All

After doing some studying,
originally, I plan to add "aerobic acid" and "Campden tablet" to have some insurance for my IPA and extend the shelf life during package.
The amount is as follows.

15L beer
3.5g aerobic acid
0.2g Campden tablet

However, after watching video from brulosophy as follows, it looks like that the Aerobic didn't work in the package stage.
https://youtu.be/h6eZq33A6QA?si=XSkZKqo_2U2GNj3t
So, does it ok and make sense to remove the aerobic acid, and only add 0.2g Campden tablet during package stage?

Thanks

Look into oxblox. I started using that about 2 years ago and prefer it. Dose is about 2g for 5 gal batch. I put it right in the mash and done. I do keep o2 out by closed transfer to keg.

 

[Broothru]

Look into oxblox. I started using that about 2 years ago and prefer it. Dose is about 2g for 5 gal batch. I put it right in the mash and done. I do keep o2 out by closed transfer to keg.

Does anyone have an insight as to the chemical composition of Oxblox? I've been using home-made Trifecta for the last several years (at least since the big dust-up over LoDO when passions ran high). I dose the mash and late boil with the Trifecta blend, and have never had an issue with off-tastes. Since starting this protocol, I've never had a perceptible (to me at least) degradation of flavor/aroma or staling in the keg for beers lasting less than 4-6 months. And my most brewed beers are light and delicate types (with an occasional hoppy IPA) that have more limited shelf lives. If they last longer than 6 months, they are candidates for dumping anyway, just to make room in the pipeline.

I'm not all that impressed with 'data' from Brulosophy exbeeriments suggesting that ascorbic acid has no effect on perceived "freshness", and I realize that the 'German brewers' have recently opined that ascorbic might not have all the benefits previously asserted. If they have other than anecdotal evidence and a significant number of data points showing ascorbic being ineffective, I might give them greater credence than Brulosophy just because, you know, German. But if the only tests are from ascorbic in isolation rather than combination with KMeta, etc., I might be more skeptical of their conclusions.

In the meantime, Trifecta (for me) has proven to be a cheap and effective way to stave off the ravages of oxidation. I can't taste a difference in Trifecta dosed beers, but I can unconditionally testify to its effectiveness in prolonging freshness.

 

[Redhouse Brewing]

Does anyone have an insight as to the chemical composition of Oxblox? I've been using home-made Trifecta for the last several years (at least since the big dust-up over LoDO when passions ran high). I dose the mash and late boil with the Trifecta blend, and have never had an issue with off-tastes. Since starting this protocol, I've never had a perceptible (to me at least) degradation of flavor/aroma or staling in the keg for beers lasting less than 4-6 months. And my most brewed beers are light and delicate types (with an occasional hoppy IPA) that have more limited shelf lives. If they last longer than 6 months, they are candidates for dumping anyway, just to make room in the pipeline.

I'm not all that impressed with 'data' from Brulosophy exbeeriments suggesting that ascorbic acid has no effect on perceived "freshness", and I realize that the 'German brewers' have recently opined that ascorbic might not have all the benefits previously asserted. If they have other than anecdotal evidence and a significant number of data points showing ascorbic being ineffective, I might give them greater credence than Brulosophy just because, you know, German. But if the only tests are from ascorbic in isolation rather than combination with KMeta, etc., I might be more skeptical of their conclusions.

In the meantime, Trifecta (for me) has proven to be a cheap and effective way to stave off the ravages of oxidation. I can't taste a difference in Trifecta dosed beers, but I can unconditionally testify to its effectiveness in prolonging freshness.

From morebeer.com website which where I buy it from:

Oxblox is a blend of gallotannins, ascorbic acid, and metabisulphite that is added to your strike water right before mash-in. It dissolves easily and is extremely useful to reduce oxidation during the mashing process. Through multiple actions, it reduces dissolved oxygen levels and helps inhibit the lipoxygenase enzyme found in malt that is infamous for causing downstream wet paper / cardboard flavors attributed by the (E)-2-nonenal compound. Oxblox 3D has minimal impact on pH but may lower pH levels by 0.2-0.4 in both the mash and the finished beer.

 

[Broothru]

From morebeer.com website which where I buy it from:

Oxblox is a blend of gallotannins, ascorbic acid, and metabisulphite that is added to your strike water right before mash-in. It dissolves easily and is extremely useful to reduce oxidation during the mashing process. Through multiple actions, it reduces dissolved oxygen levels and helps inhibit the lipoxygenase enzyme found in malt that is infamous for causing downstream wet paper / cardboard flavors attributed by the (E)-2-nonenal compound. Oxblox 3D has minimal impact on pH but may lower pH levels by 0.2-0.4 in both the mash and the finished beer.

Sure sounds a lot like home-made Trifecta. Gallotannins, ascorbic and KMeta.

 

[Redhouse Brewing]

Sure sounds a lot like home-made Trifecta. Gallotannins, ascorbic and KMeta.

It prob is, I just prefer buying it at $3.99 for 2 oz. I only use 2 grams per batch so that’s 28 batches. Super easy and cheap. Nothing wrong with making your own, I was just pointing out that you can buy it ready made.

Sure sounds a lot like home-made Trifecta. Gallotannins, ascorbic and KMeta.

 

[DuncB]

My mash and sparge water have Ascorbic acid and sodium metabisulphite. I've also started using pomegranate skin powder in the mash water as some suggestion this is useful.

 

[doug293cz]

I've also started using pomegranate skin powder in the mash water as some suggestion this is useful.

Where did you see this? Sounds pretty off-the-wall.

Brew on

 

[day_trippr]

I dunno, it doesn't seem that far fetched when you look under the hood
As a fan of eating an entire pom when I can lay hands on them (coming soon!) I believe the "peel" is the skin from the individual kernels...


Pomegranate peel powder contains a high concentration of polyphenols, the primary antioxidants that give it superior antioxidant activity compared to the fruit's pulp. The main antioxidants include ellagitannins, phenolic acids, and flavonoids.
Ellagitannins
Pomegranate peel is one of the richest sources of ellagitannins, which are water-soluble polyphenols.

• Punicalagins: The most abundant type of ellagitannin, punicalagins are considered responsible for more than half of the pomegranate's potent antioxidant effects. They are unique to pomegranates and are hydrolyzed in the body to form ellagic acid and its metabolites, urolithins.
• Ellagic acid: This potent polyphenol is released from ellagitannins and is known for its strong antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties.
• Punicalins, gallagic acid, and pedunculagins: These are other ellagitannins that also contribute to the peel's antioxidant properties.

Phenolic acids
Several types of phenolic acids contribute to the antioxidant profile of pomegranate peel.

• Gallic acid: This is one of the major phenolic acid metabolites in pomegranate peel.
• Caffeic acid and p-coumaric acid: These are other phenolic acids found in the peel.

Flavonoids
Flavonoids are a diverse group of plant compounds that serve as antioxidants.

• Anthocyanins: These pigments are responsible for the red, purple, and blue colors in fruits and vegetables. The peel contains various anthocyanins, such as delphinidin, cyanidin, and pelargonidin.
• Catechins and Epicatechins: These flavonoids are abundant in pomegranate peel.
• Quercetin and Kaempferol: These are other flavonols that provide antioxidant benefits.

Other antioxidants

• Vitamin C: The peel contains some vitamin C, which is a powerful antioxidant that supports immune function and collagen synthesis. However, its concentration is lower than in the edible parts of the fruit.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Look into oxblox. I started using that about 2 years ago and prefer it. Dose is about 2g for 5 gal batch. I put it right in the mash and done. I do keep o2 out by closed transfer to keg.

I've been using it at a 0.3 grams per gallon rate (along with YOS & a mash cap) for a couple of years with good results. With 2.5 gal batches, 2 oz lasts a long time.

I recently tried adding an additional dose in the boil (0.3 grams per gallon rate @ 15) - but the beer came out worse. So I'm putting that idea on 'pause' for a while.

I've also tried BrewTan-B (Williams Brewing has it) at 0.1g/gal @ 15 - and so far, "it does no harm" - but not sure that it makes a big positive difference.

At packaging time, I dose individual bottles. A couple of years ago, I did some "split batch" packaging experiments (same beer going into bottles - but some with AA and some without AA). Without going into details, I'm adding AA when bottling.

 

[Broothru]

I dunno, it doesn't seem that far fetched when you look under the hood
As a fan of eating an entire pom when I can lay hands on them (coming soon!) I believe the "peel" is the skin from the individual kernels...


Pomegranate peel powder contains a high concentration of polyphenols, the primary antioxidants that give it superior antioxidant activity compared to the fruit's pulp. The main antioxidants include ellagitannins, phenolic acids, and flavonoids.
Ellagitannins
Pomegranate peel is one of the richest sources of ellagitannins, which are water-soluble polyphenols.

• Punicalagins: The most abundant type of ellagitannin, punicalagins are considered responsible for more than half of the pomegranate's potent antioxidant effects. They are unique to pomegranates and are hydrolyzed in the body to form ellagic acid and its metabolites, urolithins.
• Ellagic acid: This potent polyphenol is released from ellagitannins and is known for its strong antioxidant and anti-inflammatory properties.
• Punicalins, gallagic acid, and pedunculagins: These are other ellagitannins that also contribute to the peel's antioxidant properties.

Phenolic acids
Several types of phenolic acids contribute to the antioxidant profile of pomegranate peel.

• Gallic acid: This is one of the major phenolic acid metabolites in pomegranate peel.
• Caffeic acid and p-coumaric acid: These are other phenolic acids found in the peel.

Flavonoids
Flavonoids are a diverse group of plant compounds that serve as antioxidants.

• Anthocyanins: These pigments are responsible for the red, purple, and blue colors in fruits and vegetables. The peel contains various anthocyanins, such as delphinidin, cyanidin, and pelargonidin.
• Catechins and Epicatechins: These flavonoids are abundant in pomegranate peel.
• Quercetin and Kaempferol: These are other flavonols that provide antioxidant benefits.

Other antioxidants

• Vitamin C: The peel contains some vitamin C, which is a powerful antioxidant that supports immune function and collagen synthesis. However, its concentration is lower than in the edible parts of the fruit.

I’m not sure of the source of gallotannins (in the form of BrewTan B) for Trifecta, but it is vegetal IIRC. KMeta (or NaMeta) is meta bisulfate, and ascorbic is pretty much ascorbic. I can make pretty much a pound of it for less than $10, so less than about 20% of the cost of Oxblox. Not a huge expense, but 80% discount isn’t nothing.