Hadn't really thought of Denny's yeast... that would be a good one. It does leave a "soft" beer and it sure stays cloudy as well.
I have been honing a basic IPA/APA recipe down and am looking forward to getting it right where I want it and then experimenting with the water. I think the water is the key thing here that differentiates the "typical" east coast IPA and west coast IPA.
The grainbill I have been using is:
92% 2row
2% each of Wheat, Flaked oats, caramel 20 and Honey malt.
**I like the idea of golden naked oats and/or flaked barley too.
Generally, I have been using Conan yeast.
I have been using RO water and going 275 Sulfate and 30 Chloride. It makes a great beer. But, I have been able to sample a lot of the vermont beers, and it does not have that feel to it.
When I get my recipe right where I want it, I am going to brew 3 beers on the same weekend. All 3 exactly the same but with water differences:
Beer 1 - 275 sulfate/30 chloride
Beer 2 - 150 sulfate/150 chloride
Beer 3 - 30 sulfate/275 chloride
Just to see what the different extremes and middle ground do. If I was going to randomly guess at something and try one thing, that was different, I might go 100-125 sulfate and 175-200 chloride.
mash ph I would be shooting for that 5.3-5.4 range.
All RO water.
At any rate, I hope to find time for this experiment in the near future.
Dang, now I need to wait for Antwerp Ale to release in, what, November? BS. @biertourist just mentioned this strain to make us all miserable.
I used Conan for a couple of beers, and it chews through everything. I did a wheat IPA, thinking all the extra body from 60% red wheat would stand up to Conan, but no. Obliterated. Very thin, dry beer.
I just ordered some Denny's yeast..... gonna try that.
In regard to crystal - I have been using a bit of crystal 20 and also some honey malt. gives a hint of color, some sweetness, but nothing like you get from caramel 60 or something like that.
I also use some wheat and flaked oats.
92% 2 row, 2% each of cara20, honey, oats and wheat..... still nice and light, but some sweetness and mouthfeel and body.
Sampling a Citra/centennial/cascade/comet/ahtanum pale ale right now. 12 days old. 1 day on the gas..... I think it is really quite good and would lend itself to some experimenting for this project. I might retry it with some water adjustments, slightly higher mash and denny's yeast.
What an incredibly dark and depressing outlook you have on the world...
I think you missed the point. I'll make it very simple for you: the point is, yeast strain matters when it comes to mouth feel. (Not that you need the Antwerp strain) -no need to wait.
No need for "BS" comments.
I used Conan for a couple of beers, and it chews through everything. I did a wheat IPA, thinking all the extra body from 60% red wheat would stand up to Conan, but no. Obliterated. Very thin, dry beer. I mashed at 148, which I guess was my error, but I think I'm done with Conan.
I'm interested in hearing how WLP090 goes. I haven't quite gotten my hands on it. I'd like to try some of the other American strains that don't get as much attention, but I just haven't gotten to it. I really like WLP006, and I think I'm going to do an expanded run with it. I'll let you know how it goes.
@FatDragon, I'm starting to think that crystal has more to do with it than I thought. I generally just stick to base malts, but I think that crystal does more than I wanted to admit. I'm going to try working some in too, even if it's just C10 or C15.
Zodiak, I have used it a handful of times. I'm sure you've read that this is possibly the yeast Shaun uses. I have one more IPA that's carbing right now using 1318.
Based on the flavor profile this yeast gives out, I'm starting to doubt that this is what he uses. This last brew I fermented at 64, which is the coolest I've gone with this yeast. I was trying to reduce the ester production, but I'm still getting a familiar flavor coming through that I don't think I get when I drink HF.
I've even tried a much lower sulfate level with an elevated chloride level. I think I went as high as 225ppm for chloride and 100 for sulfate. Unlike what people might say that the hops would be muted because of this elevated level, I didn't experience that. I thought the hops came through well, but just didn't like the flavor I was getting.
That yeast never flocced for me, and i think I got closer to that mouthfeel we're all looking for, but I still don't think I was there. Maybe fermenting with 1318 even lower would help to get a cleaner profile, and a more modest and not so extreme level of minerals, say 100ppm of sulfate and chloride, along with a mash pH around 5.4-5.6 would help to achieve what we're looking for?
I think Shaun is doing other things that we just haven't figured out.
Zodiak, I haven't brewed with enough English strains to be able to tell you if it's similar to another English strain, but if anything it's definitely a fruity type of ester, but I'm sure that doesn't help much....lol
I just brewed an IPA today using 175ppm sulfate and 100 chloride. We'll see how it comes out. This time around I used some harvested 1056 with some dregs of various Maine Beer Co brews that I keep adding to the starter just for the hell of it. I mashed at 153, and hope to get around an FG around 1.014. Edward finishes somewhere around there if I remember. These days I'm tending to enjoy sulfate levels around 175 to 225.
Colbizle...I'm sure the amount of chloride is higher than sulfate in Earl or at the very least equal with sulfate. My guess is his pH could be slightly higher to reduce the harshness from the dark malts. I remember Shaun stating somewhere that each brew has a specific water profile that he's honed in from trial and error over the years.
I haven't had Earl in a long time, and he doesn't make it too often, but I think Everett is one of my favorite beers from him. It's just so damn chocolately/roasty with a luxuriously full/velvety mouthfeel. Damn, now I'm getting thirsty!
If you remove all the hype around HF, and just try the beer without any bias, you'll find how incredibly balanced his beers are. Bitterness is right where you want it, hop flavor, aroma, mouthfeel. He just seems to be able to dial in everything perfectly without one thing feeling like it's out of place.
I always find people talking about a beer that finishes with a slightly higher FG as being sweeter, but I don't always find that to be the case. I think it's more to do with mouthfeel. Maybe people's minds are being tricked into thinking thicker is sweeter. Unless you're adding a ton of crystal malt, or something that leaves a residual sweetness in the beer, I think it's possible to have a full and round mouthfeel with plenty of bitterness and flavor.
Shaun's recipes are extremely simple. I tried to ask him about Everett one time, and of course he keeps his cards close to his sleeve. He told me the BYO recipe of Everett isn't really the actual recipe. He just tried to steer them in the right direction, and let the author come up with what he thought was the recipe. Shaun also told me that I'd be surprised at how simple Everett's recipe really is. That just always leads me to believe it's all in the process, and being meticulous in the way you do things, and taking great notes to tweak minor things to eventually achieve what you feel is the best you can do.
Zodiak, I have used it a handful of times. I'm sure you've read that this is possibly the yeast Shaun uses. I have one more IPA that's carbing right now using 1318.
Based on the flavor profile this yeast gives out, I'm starting to doubt that this is what he uses. This last brew I fermented at 64, which is the coolest I've gone with this yeast. I was trying to reduce the ester production, but I'm still getting a familiar flavor coming through that I don't think I get when I drink HF.
I've even tried a much lower sulfate level with an elevated chloride level. I think I went as high as 225ppm for chloride and 100 for sulfate. Unlike what people might say that the hops would be muted because of this elevated level, I didn't experience that. I thought the hops came through well, but just didn't like the flavor I was getting.
That yeast never flocced for me, and i think I got closer to that mouthfeel we're all looking for, but I still don't think I was there. Maybe fermenting with 1318 even lower would help to get a cleaner profile, and a more modest and not so extreme level of minerals, say 100ppm of sulfate and chloride, along with a mash pH around 5.4-5.6 would help to achieve what we're looking for?
I think Shaun is doing other things that we just haven't figured out.
Colbizle, this was a tough brew to do this on cause I was using up old hops and grain. I remember it having plenty of bitterness and flavor, but just not what I was looking for. I think it was a bit minerally tasting, but wasn't undrinkable, just different.
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