A friendly place for friends who drink

[TheCADJockey]

...decided to pull a sample of my sour that's been dry hopping with Citra.

I'll take "Things Hipsters Say" for 100 Alex.

 

[WesleyS]

I'll take "Things Hipsters Say" for 100 Alex.

Sorry for using a tasty hop, nugget boy.

 

[finsfan]

I will look into the specifics. I was looking at just adding more grain to make up the difference, but your indicating, that's not the way to go. Thanks!

I think oxygenation and yeast health are probably bigger factors than mash ratio, but all should be taken into consideration when looking into your process. I know buying more equipment isnt always an option, or for some just dont want to, but I would recommend an oxygenation stone if you dont have one. I have this one and love it. For the price of a larger batch, it will ensure your yeast are in a good environment every time.

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/WILLIAMS-2-MICRON-OXYGEN-AERATION-SYSTEM-P3830.aspx

This is the bad side of brewing, there is always something else you can brew to help or improve beers. Its a slippery slope haha.

 

[WesleyS]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1453147957.215162.jpg
I can fit a 5 gallon keg in my spare mini fridge. No bottling today!

 

[Psylocide]

I think oxygenation and yeast health are probably bigger factors than mash ratio, but all should be taken into consideration when looking into your process. I know buying more equipment isnt always an option, or for some just dont want to, but I would recommend an oxygenation stone if you dont have one. I have this one and love it. For the price of a larger batch, it will ensure your yeast are in a good environment every time.

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/WILLIAMS-2-MICRON-OXYGEN-AERATION-SYSTEM-P3830.aspx

This is the bad side of brewing, there is always something else you can brew to help or improve beers. Its a slippery slope haha.

Ok, now that you are the resident expert... here's an 'advanced' question:

I dump my wort from the kettle to the fermenter, as you can imagine, this thoroughly oxygenates the wort.

However, I've waited up to 8 hours to pitch yeast into that wort. Based on that, is it still sufficiently oxygenated when I pitch my yeast? I don't have problems with attenuation ever, but has me wondering if that oxygen ends up leaving the wort over time, and at what rate?

 

[finsfan]

Ok, now that you are the resident expert... here's an 'advanced' question:

I dump my wort from the kettle to the fermenter, as you can imagine, this thoroughly oxygenates the wort.

However, I've waited up to 8 hours to pitch yeast into that wort. Based on that, is it still sufficiently oxygenated when I pitch my yeast? I don't have problems with attenuation ever, but has me wondering if that oxygen ends up leaving the wort over time, and at what rate?

I have no clue haha I imagine once it's dissolved into solution it's there until the yeast consume it. I'll let you know for sure once I get through that lesson.

That being said though, just aerating like that wont give sufficient oxygen for prime yeast growth. Pure oxygen is really the only way to get up to the recommended dissolved amount. So, buy that stone.

 

[TheCADJockey]

I don't have problems with attenuation ever, but has me wondering if that oxygen ends up leaving the wort over time, and at what rate?

So, buy that stone.

Funk your stone. My crazy straw method works just fine.

 

[mcbaumannerb]

After doing some yard cleanup for the last hour, time for a mocha ski-lift: strong coffee, hot chocolate and butterscotch schnapps. Warming me up real quick!
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1453148461.687687.jpg

 

[BeerMeDuffMan]

I'll take "Things Hipsters Say" for 100 Alex.

Dry hopping with hops is too mainstream. I'll age it with the dried quinoa and vinyl records, filter it through corduroy pants and served in recycled coke bottles on a reclaimed barn wood tray

 

[Zekk]

I have no clue haha I imagine once it's dissolved into solution it's there until the yeast consume it. I'll let you know for sure once I get through that lesson.

That being said though, just aerating like that wont give sufficient oxygen for prime yeast growth. Pure oxygen is really the only way to get up to the recommended dissolved amount. So, buy that stone.

I heard in an interview with Jamil Zainasheff that, especially on a high gravity like a RIS, without a stone its almost impossible to get enough O2 in solution. He recommended for a RIS to hit it with O2 2-4 times in the first 12 hours. My plan is once before pitching and again a few hours later.

 

[ChefRex]

I'll second the wand from Williams, I already had the rest of the parts.
All cleaned up, I hate bottling, still need to label/mark everything.
Now this, View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1453148767.617945.jpg

 

[finsfan]

I heard in an interview with Jamil Zainasheff that, especially on a high gravity like a RIS, without a stone its almost impossible to get enough O2 in solution. He recommended for a RIS to hit it with O2 2-4 times in the first 12 hours. My plan is once before pitching and again a few hours later.

That's exactly right. I have never actually tried the multiple rounds of oxygen route though. It would be interesting to see a side by side experiment on two beers to test it. Even on these milds everyone is brewing, its impossible to get the correct amount of oxygen in without a stone.

 

[BGBC]

Ok, now that you are the resident expert... here's an 'advanced' question:

I dump my wort from the kettle to the fermenter, as you can imagine, this thoroughly oxygenates the wort.

However, I've waited up to 8 hours to pitch yeast into that wort. Based on that, is it still sufficiently oxygenated when I pitch my yeast? I don't have problems with attenuation ever, but has me wondering if that oxygen ends up leaving the wort over time, and at what rate?

Article is tl;dr, but the 3rd/4th sentences validated my initial thought, so I'll post them here:
"Oxygen dissolves into wort as a function of temperature and specific gravity. As such, the colder and less concentrated the wort, the more oxygen will be able to enter into solution."

Link

If you're no-chilling, I don't think you'd have to worry about any O2 leaving the wort as it cools. Maybe it would absorb more as it cools?

 

[Psylocide]

I have no clue haha I imagine once it's dissolved into solution it's there until the yeast consume it. I'll let you know for sure once I get through that lesson.

That being said though, just aerating like that wont give sufficient oxygen for prime yeast growth. Pure oxygen is really the only way to get up to the recommended dissolved amount. So, buy that stone.

Well, guess I'll just be quiet and go cry into all of my under-attenuated drain pours.

 

[iijakii]

I'm way too lazy to oxygenate. I splash and dump. I've never once had FG issues so I'll keep doin that.

 

[WesleyS]

That's exactly right. I have never actually tried the multiple rounds of oxygen route though. It would be interesting to see a side by side experiment on two beers to test it. Even on these milds everyone is brewing, its impossible to get the correct amount of oxygen in without a stone.

I guess that explains why my yeast always look tired and out of breath.

 

[BGBC]

That's exactly right. I have never actually tried the multiple rounds of oxygen route though. It would be interesting to see a side by side experiment on two beers to test it. Even on these milds everyone is brewing, its impossible to get the correct amount of oxygen in without a stone.

Looks like Brulosophy did a series of experiments earlier this year. Someone should go read all 3 and summarize them for the benefit of the thread

 

[ChefRex]

It cost little to do it and once I get around to picking up a regulator for my large tank I'll need to refill it once every couple decades.

 

[finsfan]

I'm not sure using pure oxygen has any or a large effect on FG, but it does have an effect on growth rate and lag time, contributing to differing phenols and esters put off by the yeast.

 

[TobyG]

Anyone have experience with coffee beers? I'm planning to add the beans to secondary, but I need a second opinion on how much, for how long, and whole or roughly crushed.

Best method IMO is adding them like whirlpool hops at flameout. Second best would be adding them roughly crushed/ground to secondary. I use 10-12 oz (weight) per 5 gallons depending on how bold of a coffee it is. My third favorite method is cold brewed concentrate with my Toddy brew system, but that's more of an experimental determining of amount to use. I set up 4 or 5 4 oz (liquid) samples and put varying amounts of concentrate in them (0.5mL, 1mL, etc.) and then scale up.

 

[finsfan]

I guess that explains why my yeast always look tired and out of breath.

Haha those out of shape bastards.

Looks like Brulosophy did a series of experiments earlier this year. Someone should go read all 3 and summarize them for the benefit of the thread

Interesting. I'll wait till someone else reads them for us.

 

[Gavin C]

What was your mash ratio? Thinner mashes, 1.5 qts/lb and higher, will attenuate a beer more. Thicker mashes than that do the opposite. If you mashed at 1.25 qts/lb, maybe try thinner next time.

Not nessecarily so

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.ph...ity_and_efficiency_in_single_infusion_mashing

The TL,Dr version is thin mashes = better efficiency without any increase in fermentability and/or attenuation.

 

[WesleyS]

Late lunch/snack time. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1453149818.229123.jpg

 

[beergolf]

I made a lot of beers without oxygen, just shaking the fermenter. Theye turned out fine. I did get the Williams brewing oxygen setup and noticed that my fermentations were better and actually did drop a few more points than the same recipe done without O 2. Is it a big difference? No not really. I do like the ease of it though. Much easier than shaking a fermenter


From the "Yeast" book, it does seem that proper levels of oxygen does make a beer attenuate better. They recommend 8-10 ppm and you cannot get that from shaking alone. The only way to get that is delivering O2 through a stone. Shaking for five minutes only gets to just under 3 ppm of O2.

“White Labs ran an experiment injecting pure oxygen into 5.3 gallons (20 L) of 1.077 (18.7 °P) wort using a 0.5 micron stainless steel sintered stone at a flow rate of 1 liter per minute. The results show that to reach the desired 8 to 10 ppm, you would need to inject oxygen for one minute:

Figure 4.1: Dissolved oxygen levels with various aeration times in 20 liters of wort. 18.7 °P wort at 75° F (24° C). Pure oxygen injection at 1 liter per minute using a 0.5 micron sintered stone.

To demonstrate the effect of varying dissolved oxygen levels on fermentation, White Labs then pitched White Labs WLP001 at a rate of 12 million cells per milliliter into the worts from the dissolved oxygen tests. Figure 4.2 shows that wort samples around 3 and 5 ppm of oxygen did not attenuate as fully as the other samples, which attenuated a full degree Plato over the shaken sample. Increasing the oxygen level past 9 ppm did increase the pace of fermentation slightly for the first three days, but both beers ended up at the same terminal gravity.”

Excerpt From: White & Jamil Zainasheff. “Yeast.” Brewers Publications, 2010. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.

 

[Psylocide]

Well that looks amazing.

 

[beergolf]

Late lunch/snack time. View attachment 331124

OK now you did it. You made me hungry....

 

[drainbamage]

I've been shaking it for years. I feel so inadequate.

(Phrasing, boom. )

 

[WesleyS]

I've been shaking it for years. I feel so inadequate.

(Phrasing, boom. )

Remember, if you shake it more than twice you're playing with it.

 

[iijakii]

I made a lot of beers without oxygen, just shaking the fermenter. Theye turned out fine. I did get the Williams brewing oxygen setup and noticed that my fermentations were better and actually did drop a few more points than the same recipe done without O 2. Is it a big difference? No not really. I do like the ease of it though. Much easier than shaking a fermenter


From the "Yeast" book, it does seem that proper levels of oxygen does make a beer attenuate better. They recommend 8-10 ppm and you cannot get that from shaking alone. The only way to get that is delivering O2 through a stone. Shaking for five minutes only gets to just under 3 ppm of O2.

Define better? I don't buy into a short lag time = better like a lot mention. Although with me repitching slurry I have next-morning bubblez anyways. Also not sure I want my beers dropping any lower and into the thin territory


https://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_oxygenation.cfm

Splashing & Shaking 8 ppm 40 sec.

" Traditional splashing and shaking, although laborious, is fairly efficient at dissolving up to 8 ppm oxygen."

 

[mcbaumannerb]

I've been shaking it for years. I feel so inadequate.

(Phrasing, boom. )

I have an O2 set-up and still shake it.