A BYO recipe says to let wort sit 15min before cooling – why?

[ipso]

BYO "Hop Lover’s Guide" – for AleSmith IPA, p8 reads:

“Whirlpool wort and let sit for 15min before you begin cooling.”

(A 15min delay also specified here)

??? Why? What can be gained from this? All I see is downside to delaying pitching. Are they assuming some kind of super chiller? My immersion chiller takes 55min to cool a batch down to 70°. That’s plenty of time for those “1min” hops to do their thing.

Thanks!

 

[passedpawn]

Alll the recipes in Sam Calagione's Extreme Brewing say the same thing. I think it has something to do with settling of coagulated protiens in the boil (from the hot break). That's a guess. I think it also presupposes the use of an immersion chiller instead of CFC or other type that moves the wort.

I've never done it (I don't whirlpool either) so I'm looking forward to hearing the correct answer myself.

 

[bobbrews]

Ignore that advice.

Chill to 150-160 F as soon as possible. Toss in your whirlpool hops and stir. Slow cool to 65 F and voila. Best results possible.

Try it. I'm convinced. Maybe you will be too.

 

[eastoak]

byo "hop lover’s guide" – for alesmith ipa, p8 reads:


(a 15min delay also specified here)

??? Why? What can be gained from this? All i see is downside to delaying pitching. Are they assuming some kind of super chiller? My immersion chiller takes 55min to cool a batch down to 70°. That’s plenty of time for those “1min” hops to do their thing.

Thanks!

55 min?

 

[helibrewer]

If you whirlpool, you need to let the wort settle for 15-20 mins so the trub settles out of suspension. I cool then whirlpool because I use an immersion chiller. With a plate chiller you whirlpool first, let it settle, then run the clean wort through the plate chiller.

 

[passedpawn]

If you whirlpool, you need to let the wort settle for 15-20 mins so the trub settles out of suspension. I cool then whirlpool because I use an immersion chiller. With a plate chiller you whirlpool first, let it settle, then run the clean wort through the plate chiller.

Exactly what I thought. Thanks for spelling that out clearly.

 

[niquejim]

Ignore that advice.

Chill to 150-160 F as soon as possible. Toss in your whirlpool hops and stir. Slow cool to 65 F and voila. Best results possible.

Try it. I'm convinced. Maybe you will be too.

Don't ignore the advice in the OP


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/fat-owl-pale-ale-55221/

 

[JayMac]

If you whirlpool, you need to let the wort settle for 15-20 mins so the trub settles out of suspension. I cool then whirlpool because I use an immersion chiller. With a plate chiller you whirlpool first, let it settle, then run the clean wort through the plate chiller.

Have you noticed if this is equally as effective as whirpooling before cooling? To me, it seems as the settling of the trub this way won't be as effective, as the it will settle randomly on the chiller, on the pot, and sporatically on the bottom of the pot during the approx 20-25 mins it takes to cool. Correct me if you've observed proper settling.

BTW, how long did you wait before draining into the fermentor? The usually 10 mins?

Thanks!

 

[ipso]

From what I understand breweries “whirlpool” to get the trub into a hard pack in the center of the brew kettle. This is NOT to make the beer “better”, or even the final product clearer, but simply to reduce cleaning and “stuck”ness on down the line. But I don’t even see how presumably heavier crud (since you’re letting it settle) goes to the center when centrifuging – but that’s what people do so I guess it works.

As I understand it many breweries hop during the whirlpool. Hops moving through spinning wort is simply more efficient usage than sitting on top of bottom draining wort. This is a secondary “whirlpool” term usage – the time when you add those hops.

Me – when the boil is done I turn the flame off and put the lid on (with immersion chiller hose fittings sticking out – chiller having been boiled for 10min) and I cover the brew kettle with tinfoil (like a starter) for the hour it takes my puny faucet to exchange the heat. When time, I remove my tinfoil covered lid and pour my brew kettle contents through a sanitized strainer (having already pitched my decanted starter into the primary – and wearing a face mask so I don’t breath into the wort.) Using whirlfloc there is definite huge coagulated hot/cold break in the primary – even having been filtered though the hop filled strainer. I don’t skim off hot break (improves head retention), nor do I rack out clear wort after chilling. All that drops out anyway.

Is the “whirlpool” method even applicable with an immersion chiller and pouring into your primary? I don’t think so. I don’t see the point. I guess logically if you can get one going – self sustaining – it would increase your immersion chiller efficiency drastically - but I’m guessing – that’s what I imagine people are sometimes talking about. This would be a third use for the term “whirlpool” – efficiency of heat exchange.

People say “whirlpool” and I don’t know what they are even talking about half the time.

Likewise – I have no idea what this means – and it’s frustrating.

If you whirlpool, you need to let the wort settle for 15-20 mins so the trub settles out of suspension. I cool then whirlpool because I use an immersion chiller. With a plate chiller you whirlpool first, let it settle, then run the clean wort through the plate chiller.

 

[ChuckO]

I whirlpool by pumping the wort through my CFC to start chilling before I let the trub settle. The whirlpool isn't quite as strong as it could be, but it is sufficient to keep the trub cone away from the wort pickup tube. After a 15 min. whirlpool and cool the temperature is down to about 85 deg. I then let it settle for 15 min. before draining, again through the CFC. The output to the fermenter is usually 65-68 deg., as my well water is at 60-63 deg. in the summer.

 

[Buna_Bere]

BYO "Hop Lover’s Guide" – for AleSmith IPA, p8 reads:


(A 15min delay also specified here)

??? Why? What can be gained from this?

The point of this hot whirlpool, besides building a trub cone, is to extract hop oils without boiling them off.

Ignore that advice.

Chill to 150-160 F as soon as possible. Toss in your whirlpool hops and stir. Slow cool to 65 F and voila. Best results possible.

Try it. I'm convinced. Maybe you will be too.

I'd have to agree with some version of what bobbrews is proposing here. Some kind of a hop stand. What's the best temperature or length of time to do a hop stand? It depends on what you're whirlpooling for.

If the whirlpool is at temps close to boiling, you'll get some alpha acids isomerizing too. Once the temp drops under 180 or so, you'll get very little isomerizing. So if you're looking for bittering from a whirlpool addtion keep the temp up, but if you're just looking for hop oil extraction, stay under 180.
Different hop oils vaporize at different temps, so it's hard to say do a hop stand at a specific temp unless you know what specific hop oil you're trying to extract.
I've tossed hops in around 180F while I was chilling(immersion chiller) and got some excellent hop aroma. It sounds like bobbrews is having excellent results at 150-160. My last batch I did a 120 degree 20 minute hop stand, just carbing up now.

 

[Voodoo_Child]

It's possible it's a hop stand. I tried it on my first original recipe, an IPA. Generally you boil as usual but to get the most out of your late hops you cool to say 150 - 130 and then add hops, lets stand or whirlpool for a length of time, I did 30 min then continue to cool It's supposed to add another level of hopitude that is different from dry hopping. I can't say how it tastes yet, conditioning, but I dry hopped as well and it smells sublime. Here's the one thread I found about it:

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76188&sid=66a2d80dc0e3166a00dfcc5825402834

And my recipe:
http://hopville.com/recipe/1245592/american-ipa-recipes/buggin-out-ipa

 

[StainlessBrewing]

http://bertusbrewery.blogspot.com/search?q=whirlpool

 

[onthekeg]

As mentioned before its called a Hopstand. It allows some of the hops added at the last addition to actually make a difference in the wort. If you have boiled properly, you don't have to cool immediately, its done commercially due to time constraints many times, but it is beneficial to the beer.
Try it sometime and become a believer!

 

[rowanb]

Interesting thread from a guy doing a Uinta Wyld clone - describes a lower temp hop-stand. Includes a link to a podcast from a hop grower who talks about maximising hop aroma by steeping at lower temperatures post-boil.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/can-you-brew-recipe-uinta-wyld-extra-pale-ale-296876/

Another good hop-stand/lower temp steeping discussion here.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/how-get-best-hop-aroma-flameout-additions-213803/

I've not tried this before and am thinking of giving a lower temp hop-stand a go in my next brew - chill to around 50 degrees celcius, steep hops for 30 minutes, then chill to pitching temp. I seem to remember this also coming up in a recent brewing network Sunday session with the brewer from Crooked Stave. I think he mentioned newer whirlpool systems being designed to incorporate heat exchange/temp reduction prior to addition of the final aroma hops.

 

[bobbrews]

It's funny because I stumbled on the "warm hop stand" technique because of the limitations of my first brewing system. I brewed a lot of full wort boil, small batch IPAs indoors and even at 3-4 gallons final volume, it was very tough to get the wort down to the 60's in less than an hour without a wort chiller. I went through more ice than I ever thought I needed. A flameout addition seemed silly to me at fiirst because if I'm cooling my wort down as fast as possible like many of the pro's recommend, then am I really getting much from the flameout hops? Probably not. And at one point, I thought to myself... a one minute hop addition is probably no different than adding your hops at flameout, or even 10 minutes after flameout with a slow chill. So I waited to add the more aptly named "post-boil" hops until after the wort wasn't exactly piping hot, but still rather warm. To do this required a longer steep, and thus a shorter chill time. For what it's worth, I did not have any negatives from doing so, therefore I abandoned the quick chill ideology.

When I upgraded my system and got ahold of a wort chiller, I was cooling my wort very quickly (more quickly than I wanted) and so I was also losing the aroma that I once grew to love. That's when I revisited what worked for me in my old system. I bought a bunch of ingredients in bulk and brewed my basic IPA recipe about a dozen times with everything else remaining the same except the point at which I added my post-boil hops. I began taking temperature measurements and a lot of different notes to see where the aroma was best. I settled on about 150-160 F being the sweet spot. Since I had a wort chiller by now, it made sense to bring the wort down to 150/160 F as quickly as possible, then to revert back to a slow-working ice bath for the rest of the chilling. So now, at the point where I remove my wort chiller, I tossed in the post-boil hops for 30 minutes or so until the wort cools to 65 F. Been happy ever since!!

 

[ipso]

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76188&sid=66a2d80dc0e3166a00dfcc5825402834

http://bertusbrewery.blogspot.com/search?q=whirlpool

Nice takedowns!

http://beersmith.com/blog/2012/05/13/hop-chemistry-and-beer-with-james-altwies-beersmith-podcast-38/

Great reference! Good in all, but directly applicable to hop-stand starting at about 14:00.

(I didn’t’ realize hop cones were only female – just like that other herb&#8230

The point of this hot whirlpool, besides building a trub cone, is to extract hop oils without boiling them off.

I want to nail this “whirlpool” thing down. I have a 7.5 gal pot (no bulkhead valve) and a standard non-recirculating immersion chiller. Is a whirlpool technique even applicable to that equipment? (Not talking about extracting hop compounds via different temps – talking about a physical whirlpool inside the boil kettle.)

Someone please confirm for me either way (given my equipment) if you can get a whirlpool started and it somehow self sustains vs. manually stirring the whole time. I’ve imagined for years now people are talking about this with my equipment. I don’t dare try it - sitting there with my spoon in my hand, looking at wort stop spinning after I spin it. (Stir – stop spinning. Stir – stop spinning.) Sounds like drunken folly. Like having a handful of pennies, throwing one at a time into a wishing well: “I wish I had more money.” “I wish I had more money.” “I wish I had more money.” Yet, people talk about "whirlpooling" with immersion chillers all the time (^).

Re: “hop stand”. Loads of info all – thank you for sharing and links! (Before I thought “hop stand” people were talking about a hop spider&#8230

 

[Voodoo_Child]

I haven't had much success with whirlpooling to build a trub cone. You would chill first, then whirlpool last so that if you did get a trub cone you wouldn't disturb it with the chiller.

My method was leave my giant spoon in the boil with the chiller to sanitize, after cooling bring inside and stir like hell for as long as I can stand. While it's settling I rehydrate my yeast but I've never had a nice cone.