80/20 Brew Stand

[PaulHilgeman]

Yeah, the goal will be to not get it too dirty, and eventually replace with all stainless if I can.

My grain mill is a barley crusher mounted on particle board, but it does have a 6A electrical motor driving it with nice forward and reverse switches, not as pretty as my brew rig, but certainly works great.

 

[ScubaSteve]

Really nice....I like those needle valves! You could easily increase the size of your vessels if you want to go bigger...room to grow!

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Except for some reason, they cant supply enough to the burner. I have one of the Bayou Classic valves on the way, but for tonight's brew session, I am going to stick with just the ball valve and cross my fingers. I think I would need a larger orifice if I am going to stick with the needle valve, with that much upstream restriction, the flow through the needle valve is too low. The needle valve works great for the flash boiler though, as I can finally dial the gas down enough to get a no-soot flame. Since it is a leaner burn the performance doesnt take a hit either, but I dont get to show off with the 4' flame shooting out though!

 

[PaulHilgeman]

So I took it for a test-drive this weekend. Other than some odd propane regulator issues, which wont prevent me from brewing, but are a bit annoying, things went well.

I can fill and heat my strike water in about 10 minutes, and I can generate sparge water at just under a gallon a minute at 175°F, so that went great, but I didn't get to actually brew anything. I will do a 10 gal batch on Wednesday, an all centennial IPA, those are always tasty!

 

[ScubaSteve]

Very impressive!

 

[PaulHilgeman]

This seems to be my only remaining issue:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/odd-regulator-behavior-218601/

But I found a regulator with a green ACME coupler in my basement, maybe that one will have enough flow to support the tankless heater without the surge protect valve operating.

Sounds like the black ones are only to about 75K btu, the green should get me roughly double that.

Any of you guys know anything about those things?

 

[PaulHilgeman]

First batch done. Definitely need to work out the LP issues, starting the tankless heater was not as easy as it should be. The whirlpool chilling worked amazing. About 15 minutes to get 10 Gal down to 62 degrees.

Lastly though, 17 degrees is way too cold to brew in!

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Ahhh, finally solved the biggest problem from the first brew-day:

The tankless heater was originally designed for natural gas, so the solenoids fail safe and dont open at high pressures from my 0-10psi regulator. Additionally the regulator tended to detect a fault when supplying propane to the tankless heater as it is probably between 100-200 kBTU, maybe more. This meant that every time I wanted to light the tankless heater, I had to scale the regulator way back, and slowly increase it until it lit, but if I went too far, it would go out due to the excess-flow device.

I took the existing 0-10PSI regulator and drilled out the safety device in the tank coupler.

Next I re-did my LP manifold with a 11" WC regulator that I had laying around. This supplies the tankless heater at the correct pressure. I also switched out to the NV180P valve from Bayou Classic, This works perfectly and gives a lot of control over the burner, at least a full revolution from barely on-to full blast.

Now I just want to sand the whole thing down, tape off the brass parts and give it a good coat of rustoleum so that it doesn't rust.

 

[PaulHilgeman]

I was going to brew "whiteout wit" tonight, but I was exhausted from 3.5 hrs of snow blowing and shoveling today, so i did some simple upgrades to my brew system.

Now that I got my LP system fixed, I also did a quick test on the tankless heater. I was able to bring 5 gal up 23 degrees in 1 minute. That comes to roughly 58kbtu applied to the circulating water. So that means that 5 gal of strike water can be prepared from 60 to 160 in 4.5 to 5 minutes.

The other way of looking at it, I can do 1 gal/minute at a rise from 60 to 170 for my batch sparge additions.

I cant wait for the weather to get better and for the kids to sleep so I can brew some more. We finally got our 2.5 year old going to bed in less than 1hr of parental-involvement-time last week, so I see some 8:00-11:00 brewing in my future.

 

[Rhoobarb]

... Now I just want to sand the whole thing down, tape off the brass parts and give it a good coat of rustoleum so that it doesn't rust.

Are you talking about spraying Rustoleum on the heater or the whole frame?

 

[PaulHilgeman]

No, just the galvanized steel for the LP distribution.

 

[ScottyBones]

this is looking great Paul. I am really liking the possibilities of 80/20 :rockin:

 

[Rhoobarb]

So... any update so far?

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Nothing at all. It works perfectly, easily and quickly. I have added 2 more PIDs, just for display, one has a thermowell in the Mash Tun, the other one has a thermowell in the BK.

I fixed the problems with the gas distribution....

I am going to have a custom CNC panel for the PIDs and controls....

Thats about it. I love using it.

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Oh, Brewing 10gal of really hoppy north german pilsner tonight.

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Alright, it has been a while since I updated this thread.

I have done several updates to the system in the last few months.

1. BG-14 burner. I havent done anything but fire it up, sure is a lot quieter, and seems hotter!
2. Re-configured my propane supply manifold, all flexible 3/8" copper tubing with flare connectors now, much nicer looking and much neater, and it gets the control knob for the burner much higher up on the system.
3. Re-configured water/wort supply manifold. Previous configuration shared some areas so I had to stop recirculating to generate sparge water, and there was always the risk of over-pressure blowing a silicone line off. Now they are separate and it is hard-piped right to the tankless heater. I loose the ability to recirculate the mash through the tankless heater, but I never used that feature since I built the rig.
4. I added 2 PIDs as cheap and easy Pt100 readers, one displays the MT temp as a sanity check against the RIMS, the other displays the BK temp.


Here are some pictures:

Enjoy

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Ha, I used the BG-14 burner on a 5 gal batch on Monday. When I was at 164, I timed it for 1 minute. I was able to get to 173 in one minute! 9 degrees per minute, that's crazy!

I also ordered the SS RIMS tube from Derrin. I will be installing it in a week or so. I will post some pictures once it is installed.

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Finally an update!

I am adding a true control enclosure, and automating the hot water heater to give me PID-controlled hot water on demand.

I'll neaten-up the wiring as soon as I confirm that everything works:

 

[chuckjaxfl]

How's this coming, Paul?

 

[Tomtanner]

I'm mulling over my options for a stand so I'm subscribing to this. Everything looks very clean. What website did you go to for your materials?

 

[PaulHilgeman]

I bought all of the stuff from the 80/20 store on e-Bay, you can get stuff pretty reasonably there.

Here is the updated picture with the new SS RIMS tube and the control box:

I also added a PID to control the flow to the hot water heater, and thus the temperature of the output. I just dial in my strike and sparge water temps now and it puts out water at the desired temperature. Here are the solenoid valves and plumbing:

The system as a whole is literally amazing to brew on. I can be mashing in about 5 minutes usually, sparge water takes no planning at all. And a batch with a 60 minute mash and a 60 minute boil can be done in under 3 hours with very little touch time.

-Paul

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Also, since those pictures have been taken I added an in-line oxyegenation system to the wort return to the kettle. After the wort is chilled I can just turn on the O2 tank for a minute while I am either re-circulating or pumping to the fermenter.

 

[EarthBound]

Where'd you get the tankless water heater? I gotta get me one of those!

 

[bodhi314]

Have any design documentation for your temp control solenoids coming off that water heater??

Really awesome design - new one on me.

Cheers!:rockin:

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Where'd you get the tankless water heater? I gotta get me one of those!

It is an old one that I scrapped out of a house I rehabbed to years ago. I suppose any would work, it is just a burner and a set of copper tubes running through an assembly of fins in the exhaust tube of the burner.

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Have any design documentation for your temp control solenoids coming off that water heater??

Really awesome design - new one on me.

Cheers!:rockin:

It is quite simple, they are just 120v solenoid valves, about 40 bucks on ebay. One turns on as soon as the hot water heater is turned on to allow flow. THe other is turned on by a PID to keep it at a setpoint. I use the gate valves to control flow, so that with one on, the temp is about 200, with both it is about 140. That way, the PID can hit any temp in between by cycling the control valve.

 

[chuckjaxfl]

It is quite simple, they are just 120v solenoid valves, about 40 bucks on ebay. One turns on as soon as the hot water heater is turned on to allow flow. THe other is turned on by a PID to keep it at a setpoint. I use the gate valves to control flow, so that with one on, the temp is about 200, with both it is about 140. That way, the PID can hit any temp in between by cycling the control valve.

So, they are normally closed valves, and you use the PID to cool, rather than to heat?

 

[PaulHilgeman]

Yes, exactly.