$50 Dedicated HERMS

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Step up to mash out temp and just maintain temp during the mash or allow me to mash in slightly under and raise up to mash temp. Im mainly shooting for consistency. Depending on how fast it will ramp temps I will see if I want to bother with other steps or protein rests etc.
 
Step up to mash out temp and just maintain temp during the mash or allow me to mash in slightly under and raise up to mash temp. Im mainly shooting for consistency. Depending on how fast it will ramp temps I will see if I want to bother with other steps or protein rests etc.


The set up will have plenty of ability to maintain mash temps in a cooler MT and ramp up to mash out should be fairly quick depending on the size of your batch. Good luck you should be happy with the results once you get it dialed in after a couple brews. As stated earlier agitation during step to mash out in the HERMS will increase efficiency greatly even if you stir by hand. I started out recirculating the water around the HERMS with a pump and later determined a paddle worked even better. I eventually repurposed the pump and built a stir motor and performance is up as much as 40%.


MaxOut Brewstat
 
Cool thanks for the tip, I will keep it in mind if I feel it needs a performance boost. My hope is that there will be so little water in the pot that stratification wont become an issue but we will see.
 
I'm assuming this was your inspiration right? It was mine anyway :). http://handsonbrewing.com/the-hermit-brewery/heat-exchanger/ - He talks about how he doesn't think HE systems are very good for step mashing but his results would seem to match other HERM systems out there. I don't really think there's any kind of true "steps" - just how steep we can make the ramps.

MaxOut, I don't see how this system adds any more variability then other recirculating systems HERMS or RIMS. If there's any kind of significant loss on its way back to the MT then you can compensate accordingly but how is that different from other recirc systems?






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Never mind maxout, we overlapped posts :cheers: the hermit does stir the water even though it's only a gallon...


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Cool thanks for the tip, I will keep it in mind if I feel it needs a performance boost. My hope is that there will be so little water in the pot that stratification wont become an issue but we will see.


Stirring not only reduces stratification in the HERMS pot (not really why I suggested it) but increases heat transfer between the water and the coil significantly. Try it and you will see. Cheers.


MaxOut Brewstat
 
Coil is 100 miles away yet fedex says it wont be here till the 12th now....wtf
 
Copper is here, I hope to coil it tonight an either run some water tests tonight or some time this weekend. Next weekend I will be brewing helles belles. Let me know of any special tests or anything you want me to run, I will try to do them if they sound reasonable.
 
Got it coiled

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Nice. Let us know how quickly you can hear up the mash. Still can't wait to check this out.


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I'm most interested in how well the STC will function holding a temp. It would be great if you can introduce some variability like adding a cup of ice after the temps stabilize and then track how long it takes to regain the desired set point.

I'm also curious about the temp differential this setup is capable of doing - I.e. The temp of the wort before and after the hex.




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Okay so my coil came and I was able to run some water tests today. Took lots of pics and got pretty detailed data to share so here goes.

This is the coil. 10' of 1/2" In the pic both ends are taped and filled with salt. You will need to straiten it out and do this before you attempt to bend it or you will risk kinks. I was able to wrap around a nalgine bottle and just kind of make the coil stack you see here.
GIZzueb.jpg


Here it is in the pot. It takes 1.5L of water to cover the coil to where it is in the pic and this is the amount I used for all the testing.
b8KP3O0.jpg


Silicone hose slides right on the end like barbs, no leaks or anything while I was running. Might get a 2 hose clamps to play it safe in the future though although I cant see how it would slip off or leak.
etdr0kG.jpg


If for some reason the hose does slip off though you run a risk of pumping all your wort into your HERMS pot and then overflowing onto the burner, and in my case the outlet and pump directly under it so I seriously recommend running this on GFCI
ULPr5cD.jpg


Here are a few shots of it running
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Temp probe is in a 1/2" nylon tee, I hook the output of the return onto the end of the tee so that the sensor is right before the water returns to the cooler.
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Here is the ramping data that I collected. For this I set the STC to 50c and just let it do its thing. This data is with 4 gallons of water in the MLT
YtIm8lm.png


Once the temp was at 50c the temp slowly keep rising until it hit 50.5c so .5c overshoot. Not too bad but not the best. However, this is with the burner set on high and the pump running a full open. I repeated the test 2 more times with the exact same results so at least it is consistent. A simple fix I found for this is, when you are 1c away from your target temp, turn the burner down to low. Doing this method I got mixed results of 0c - .1c overshoot pretty sweet. And I would imagine that you could just keep it on low to maintain temps until the next time you wanted to ramp up temps.

I'm most interested in how well the STC will function holding a temp. It would be great if you can introduce some variability like adding a cup of ice after the temps stabilize and then track how long it takes to regain the desired set point.

I'm also curious about the temp differential this setup is capable of doing - I.e. The temp of the wort before and after the hex.

It was pretty hard to test the temp holding since I'm in a cooler and it took almost ten minutes of recalculation to drop .1c however, the stc will turn the burner back on once you are .3c below target and if kept on low as mentioned above I dont see why it wont be able to hold temps to .4 - .5c no problem.
I added 1 quart of water at 17c and it dropped the temp down about 4c really fast, the stc turned on the burner and it ramped the temp back up to 50c at the speed mentioned above in the graph. As far as temp differential it was very minimal if I was pumping at full speed. Less than .1c however if I closed the valve on the outlet of my pump to almost fully closed I was able to achieve a difference of 4.5c.

Overall very happy with this system.
Pros
Cheap
Works
Double MLT as Sous vide oven
Can heat up water while sleeping or doing other things
Can hold within .4c on water test
Cons
Not super fast temp ramps

Let me know what you think of if you want more info. I will be brewing next weekend so I will be able to say for sure that it works with grain and what not and it is my hope it will even hold temps tighter since the grain will have a pretty big thermal mass. Hope this helps anyone who was curious about doing this. :mug:
 
Very cool.

If my calcs are right you had about .9L of volume inside the coil immersed in 1.6L of water. Would you mind trying it with a large get volume of water? Say 4L? I'm curious how the additional mass of the water bath would affect the results.

Great work and thanks much for sharing! :cheers:


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Nice work, I think you will have some copy cats out there soon. I still think it wouldn't work in a non-cooler MLT, but if somebody would prove me wrong I'd be pretty happy about that too.
 
Yeah, that would be neat to see. Get the pot nearly full, and see how well you can regulate it. I miss my cooler, it was really easy to regulate temperatures... I need to figure out a way to insulate my MLT in an 'attractive' way. If it isn't pretty enough, the brewery and I get kicked out to the garage.

Another thought, how fast are you recirculating? I'm not sure of the exact number, but at more than maybe 2 gpm, you can cause some grain bed compaction. When you are testing w\out grain it isn't an issue. I'd guess with your pump and that wide tubing you could get a pretty good flow going that could result on a stuck grain bed. Just something to look out for when you brew with it.
 
Awesome test results.

FYI - on the topic of uninsulated tuns: My MLT is a sanke (and poorly insulated at that). I loose about 200 watts worth of heat at mashing temps (150F).

This system is running at about 50% efficiency when your are within a few degrees of the set point and the heater is rated at 800 watts. Therefore, it should be able to maintain temp in an uninsulated MLT, but you won't be able to raise the temperature step very fast at all (maybe 1 degree every 4-5 minutes).

Keep the results coming!
 
I meant to ask...do you have a thermometer in/on the HERMS pot? I'm curious about what the temperature profile in that pot looks like, maybe overlaid with the Mash Tun temperature.

Thanks
 
I've got to say, I'm impressed. Bravo, sir. I expected far more overshoot and undershoot than that.

But ultimately what really matters is the stability of the mash temperature. A bit of overshoot and undershoot out of the HERMS is fine if the temperature of the mash itself holds steady, which I'm guessing it will.
 
My goal is to heat up my strike water with the while im sleeping this weekend for my early morning brew day.
 
Did a brew with this yesterday, held temps with .4c the entire 90 minute mash and didn't overshoot at all with the valve open about half way and the burner on medium. Also used it to sous vide steaks for dinner. Held water at 57.5 - 57.8 for about 7 hours! No issues what so ever. Cooking steaks this way is alone enough to justify the 50$ price tag, they came out perfect! Its weird that you can cook food that long but you don't even smell it the entire time its cooking.
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I think I'm going to go with the RIMS and a 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler. Should be the same except with the wert coming in direct contact with the element.
 
That's enough proof for me. I know what I'm making this weekend. With my cooler set up I would lose about 4 degrees over a hour long mash but if I can keep it within temps with this, I'm all for it! Great job!


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Just so you all know, a STC-1000 and a crockpot is all you need for sous-vide cooking. Do it all the time with my fermentation temp controller.
 
isn't a pump or something required to move the water around to prevent stratification?
 
Just so you all know, a STC-1000 and a crockpot is all you need for sous-vide cooking. Do it all the time with my fermentation temp controller.

Hmmm, you got my attention now. Where do you put the probe from the stc-1000? I wouldn't mind trying this...
 
Just so you all know, a STC-1000 and a crockpot is all you need for sous-vide cooking. Do it all the time with my fermentation temp controller.

Hmmm, you got my attention now. Where do you put the probe from the stc-1000? I wouldn't mind trying this...
 
Straight in the crock-pot. I try to get it about 1/2 way down and not touching either the sides of the crockpot nor whatever it is I'm cooking.
 
I've done sous-vide a dozen times with a crock pot and a johnson temp controller. Works great. Think maybe I'll do that this weekend, now that I'm thinking about it again.

I think something where the water is moving works 'better', but I had great results with just the crock pot. I think the fact that it is heated on all sides vs the little heating element of a true recirculator makes a difference.

And now I'm hungry.
 
Can you provide more detail as to how you put the temp sensor in the output of the HERMS. Is the temperature probe food safe?
NealM
 
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