48 hours and no bubbling! :(

[Nyxsmead]

It has been two days and not a single bubble from the airlock. I’m using a carboy and the rubber cork/airlock is definitely on correctly, I didn’t put too much water in the airlock either.
This is my first batch ever so please bare with me /.\
I aimed to make a 1gallon batch of cyser. I used 1 gallon of apple cider and 4 lbs of honey, 5 grams of Lalvin D47 yeast, 1 teaspoon nutrients from Goferm and 1/2 teaspoon energizer.
Possible problems (?): I ran into some issues while preparing the mead so I though I’d include them so as to provide possible clues; 1. My drill I was going to use for gravity wasn’t working so I ended up making the must in the bucket I used to sanitize everything in and used a hand mixer (what you would use for mixing cake batter) to aerate the must. When I took the gravity reading it was slightly lower than 1.100. I put the must into my carboy and shook it up a little more. Then, I added the yeast that I was acclimating. Which brings me to #2) I didn’t have a thermometer when I was acclimating the yeast, I just used my intuition to judge how hot the water was when adding my yeast. Didn’t think this would be too much of a problem but let me know if it is!
anyway, after adding the yeast, nutrients and energizer into the carboy, I shook it a tiny bit more and then put it in a dark place. (My carboy is dark green) don’t know if this makes any difference but I thought I’d mention.)
Please let me know what I should dooo!! I hate that there aren’t any bubbles going! This is my first batch so buying everything was super expensive and I don’t wanna have to throw out this batch. Thank you for reading!

 

[pdhirsch]

Are you sure the cider was free of preservatives? Most off-the-shelf apple cider has preservatives that are intended to prevent what the grocery store would call "spoilage" but what we call "desirable fermentation." My local cider mill will sell me preservative-free cider if I give them advance notice, but by default they put sorbate or sulfites in it.

 

[Nyxsmead]

The label just said apple juice there were no preservatives listed.. would they not list it?

 

[pdhirsch]

The label just said apple juice there were no preservatives listed.. would they not list it?

If it has preservatives in it, then they have to be listed in the ingredients on the label. (You do have to read the Ingredients list, which may be in fine print in some inconspicuous place, but it has to be there somewhere.)

 

[IslandLizard]

[Correction] Moved to the Mead forum, as Cysers are technically Meads fermented with apple juice instead of water. Hopefully a Cyser maker can shine some light on this.
https://www.vikingalchemist.com/mea...erence-between-mead-cyser-braggot-amp-melomel[-- Mod]

I hate that there aren’t any bubbles going!

Lack of bubbling is not the best judgment for lack of fermentation. A small leak somewhere can prevent airlock activity.

Can you perhaps see foam on the surface? That would be a better telltale. Maybe use a flashlight through the side to see inside?
At what temp are you fermenting this?

 

[Nyxsmead]

If it has preservatives in it, then they have to be listed in the ingredients on the label. (You do have to read the Ingredients list, which may be in fine print in some inconspicuous place, but it has to be there somewhere.)

Yeah, that’s what I meant, on the ingredients list (which was inconspicuously placed) all it said was apple juice.
UPDATE: I increased the temperature to 78 degrees and I finally saw it’s first bubble a few hours ago! It’s bubbling very slowly (once about every 45-60secs) I’m going to just continue to let it sit for 2 more weeks and then rack it into another carboy.

 

[Nyxsmead]

Lack of bubbling is not the best judgment for lack of fermentation. A small leak somewhere can prevent airlock activity.

Can you perhaps see foam on the surface? That would be a better telltale. Maybe use a flashlight through the side to see inside?
At what temp are you fermenting this?

I’m going to wait till tomorrow to look for foam but yesterday (24hrs of fermentation) I checked and there was no foam at all.
I finally am seeing some bubble action but it’s slow.. should I just continue as planned?

 

[Nyxsmead]

UPDATE: I increased the temperature to 78 degrees and I finally saw it’s first bubble a few hours ago! It’s bubbling very slowly (once about every 45-60secs) I’m going to just continue to let it sit for 2 more weeks and then rack it into another carboy. Unless maybe I should add some more yeast? Or nutrients? Any thoughts?

 

[McMullan]

Expect an extended delay between pitching and fermentation with most dry yeast. They've been pushed to the brink by the drying process, vacuum packed then shipped round the world. Finally, after months or longer in a state of suspended animation, they're pulled straight from the fridge then tossed into concentrated sugary solutions that promote osmotic stress. They spend the first 2 or 3 days in a state of shock, trying to remember what it is they're supposed to be doing. As they acclimatise, they get a bit peckish then can't help themselves. That's when fermentation starts.

 

[IslandLizard]

Any thoughts?

Yeah, 78F is waaaay too high, you're making rocket fuel, fusel alcohols and whatnot...
Generally, fermenting in the low to mid 60s gives much better tasting products. With some exceptions, e.g., yeast strains that simply need it warmer to perform normally.

There's a lag time between pitching and seeing signs. A few days of lag time is totally normal. Especially when pitching at higher gravities, yeast has a harder time getting their cell count up. The right nutrients help them overcome that, as does patience.

 

[bwible]

Date on the yeast package?

 

[pdhirsch]

Expect an extended delay between pitching and fermentation with most dry yeast. They've been pushed to the brink by the drying process, vacuum packed then shipped round the world. Finally, after months or longer in a state of suspended animation, they're pulled straight from the fridge then tossed into concentrated sugary solutions that promote osmotic stress. They spend the first 2 or 3 days in a state of shock, trying to remember what it is they're supposed to be doing. As they acclimatise, they get a bit peckish then can't help themselves. That's when fermentation starts.

That hasn't been my experience. My current batch of traditional mead, using dry K1V yeast, started at 1.099; after 4 days it was down to 1.060. Ambient temperature is 64 degrees, and I've seen faster fermentation at higher temperatures. A previous batch of mead, also using K1V, started at 1.096 at 68 degrees, and was down to 1.067 after 48 hours; and I've made cyser using Danstar Nottingham ale yeast that went from 1.094 to 1.006 in 7 days, also at 68 degrees.

I do try not to shock the yeast when pitching. I rehydrate as directed on the package, but then instead of pitching dircetly into the big bucket of new must, I add a few ounces of must to the rehydrated yeast, and let it sit for another 20 - 30 minutes before pitching into the big bucket. That two-stage process definitely helps the yeast get a better start, as does staggered nutrient addition.

 

[Nyxsmead]

Yeah, 78F is waaaay too high, you're making rocket fuel, fusel alcohols and whatnot...
Generally, fermenting in the low to mid 60s gives much better tasting products. With some exceptions, e.g., yeast strains that simply need it warmer to perform normally.

There's a lag time between pitching and seeing signs. A few days of lag time is totally normal. Especially when pitching at higher gravities, yeast has a harder time getting their cell count up. The right nutrients help them overcome that, as does patience.

Thank you so much for your response! I lowered the temp. Do you think it was coincidence then that it finally started bubbling once I put the temp up a bit? I was searching this website frantically for a solution that I could realistically do and saw someone say that cranking up the heat is a possibility since (like you said) some yeasts like it warmer.
now I don’t know what to do!
like I said, it’s bubbling very slowly though, any suggestions on what I should do? Did I ruin it already by cranking up the heat? Is it going to taste horrible?

 

[PCABrewing]

Did I ruin it already by cranking up the heat? Is it going to taste horrible?

Don't give up.
Unless there is a reason to dump and restart like a plan for the holidays, I'd let it finish and try it.
It may have an off taste or it may be delicious.
I've been surprised when I thought for sure I was making a drain-pour and it turned out pretty good.
Now if you need to have a sure bet for holiday plans that's a different story but I'd still do some testing and tasting before I dumped.

 

[Dan O]

For a 1 gallon batch, 4 lbs of honey should have made your OG super high. Your yeast may be in shock from all the sugar to consume. Just a thought

 

[RufusBrewer]

Never mind

 

[Nyxsmead]

Thank you to everyone who contributed their two cents
I still was wondering if I should do anything (or add anything) to it because it’s bubbling very slowly, does the rate of the bubbles not matter that much?
thanks again!

 

[Nyxsmead]

Don't give up.
Unless there is a reason to dump and restart like a plan for the holidays, I'd let it finish and try it.
It may have an off taste or it may be delicious.
I've been surprised when I thought for sure I was making a drain-pour and it turned out pretty good.
Now if you need to have a sure bet for holiday plans that's a different story but I'd still do some testing and tasting before I dumped.

Thank you for the hope
I was hoping to have this mead ready by April 30th 2022 about 5 months from now
It’s bubbling very slowly still but I won’t let that bother me too much.. I’m going to give it 3 weeks for primary.

 

[IslandLizard]

does the rate of the bubbles not matter that much?

Slow and steady is best.
Bubbling will slow down toward the end due to less sugars being available while the yeast gets increased alcohol poisoning due to rising alcohol levels. Once it starts to slow down you could start ramping temps up slowly (say 1-2 degrees F per day) to help keep it going and prevent stalling.

 

[Toxxyc]

Yeah typically honey adds between 35 and 40 points per pound per gallon in solution. 4 pounds of honey into one gallon, ignoring the apple juice, will give you a 1.140 OG already, best case. Adding, let's say, 40 points for the apple juice, you'll end up at 1.18 OG. That's super, SUPER high. I'd say your yeast is in big trouble. If it ferments to completion, it's going to be a hot, fusel-laden mead, unless you get lucky during the fermentation.

 

[Dan O]

Thank you for the hope
I was hoping to have this mead ready by April 30th 2022 about 5 months from now
It’s bubbling very slowly still but I won’t let that bother me too much.. I’m going to give it 3 weeks for primary.

Bubbles are meaningless, other than to be able to tell if your must is still putting out CO2. Readings, whether hydrometer or refractometer, are your true way to tell if it's done. 3 consecutive readings over 2 weeks. Don't be in such a hurry to get it out of primary, especially if it's not done.

Now, your question.....If you have another carboy, you could try splitting the batch & add more apple juice, (or cider). Splitting it would still give about 2 lbs of honey/gallon & your ferment would likely take off. Just make sure you get all if the leese off the bottom BEFORE you rack & split the batch.... (any active yeast that are stuck in the leese will be worthless to helping finish the ferment if you leave them behind). Then, when it finishes, likely will be dry, you can backsweeten & stabilize, as needed.

That should make it for your timeline.
]I hope this helps you.
Happy meading

 

[Miraculix]

Yeah typically honey adds between 35 and 40 points per pound per gallon in solution. 4 pounds of honey into one gallon, ignoring the apple juice, will give you a 1.140 OG already, best case. Adding, let's say, 40 points for the apple juice, you'll end up at 1.18 OG. That's super, SUPER high. I'd say your yeast is in big trouble. If it ferments to completion, it's going to be a hot, fusel-laden mead, unless you get lucky during the fermentation.

This.

Can you transfer everything into a bigger fermenter? Then you could dilute it with some more juice or just water to an og that the yeast can handle.

 

[Nyxsmead]

This.

Can you transfer everything into a bigger fermenter? Then you could dilute it with some more juice or just water to an og that the yeast can handle.

My OG was 1.100
The reason I put so much honey in at first was cuz I didn’t want to have to back sweeten or add anything in 2nd fermentation. I don’t have an extra fermenter, just one more 1gallon carboy. I could do the splitting that “miraculix”suggested. :/

 

[Nyxsmead]

Yeah typically honey adds between 35 and 40 points per pound per gallon in solution. 4 pounds of honey into one gallon, ignoring the apple juice, will give you a 1.140 OG already, best case. Adding, let's say, 40 points for the apple juice, you'll end up at 1.18 OG. That's super, SUPER high. I'd say your yeast is in big trouble. If it ferments to completion, it's going to be a hot, fusel-laden mead, unless you get lucky during the fermentation.

How does one “get lucky”?
Your comment took me back to hopelessness
So according to your calculations, my mead is going to be a hot fusel mess (?)
I wish there was something I could do to fix it..

 

[Nyxsmead]

Bubbles are meaningless, other than to be able to tell if your must is still putting out CO2. Readings, whether hydrometer or refractometer, are your true way to tell if it's done. 3 consecutive readings over 2 weeks. Don't be in such a hurry to get it out of primary, especially if it's not done.

Now, your question.....If you have another carboy, you could try splitting the batch & add more apple juice, (or cider). Splitting it would still give about 2 lbs of honey/gallon & your ferment would likely take off. Just make sure you get all if the leese off the bottom BEFORE you rack & split the batch.... (any active yeast that are stuck in the leese will be worthless to helping finish the ferment if you leave them behind). Then, when it finishes, likely will be dry, you can backsweeten & stabilize, as needed.

That should make it for your timeline.
]I hope this helps you.
Happy meading

How would you do this? I need step by step or else I get lost I just have a few questions like, should I worry about shocking the yeast if I do this? Should I not shake it? But I feel like shaking it up a bit is what I’ll have to do to make sure the leese doesn’t get left behind. What do you think? Also, when do you usually take the second reading? A week into primary or when?

 

[Nyxsmead]

How does one “get lucky”?
Your comment took me back to hopelessness
So according to your calculations, my mead is going to be a hot fusel mess (?)
I wish there was something I could do to fix it..

When I take my second gravity reading is there an indication that my mead is going in the right direction? Or does gravity reading have nothing to do with letting me know if Im making fusels ?

 

[Nyxsmead]

Bubbles are meaningless, other than to be able to tell if your must is still putting out CO2. Readings, whether hydrometer or refractometer, are your true way to tell if it's done. 3 consecutive readings over 2 weeks. Don't be in such a hurry to get it out of primary, especially if it's not done.

Now, your question.....If you have another carboy, you could try splitting the batch & add more apple juice, (or cider). Splitting it would still give about 2 lbs of honey/gallon & your ferment would likely take off. Just make sure you get all if the leese off the bottom BEFORE you rack & split the batch.... (any active yeast that are stuck in the leese will be worthless to helping finish the ferment if you leave them behind). Then, when it finishes, likely will be dry, you can backsweeten & stabilize, as needed.

That should make it for your timeline.
]I hope this helps you.
Happy meading

I am going to try this tactics tomorrow! Hopefully I am not too late (as it has been 6 days already) tomorrow will be day 7. Do you recommend I add any more yeast,nutrients,energizer?
thanks so much for your help

 

[Dan O]

How would you do this? I need step by step or else I get lost I just have a few questions like, should I worry about shocking the yeast if I do this? Should I not shake it? But I feel like shaking it up a bit is what I’ll have to do to make sure the leese doesn’t get left behind. What do you think? Also, when do you usually take the second reading? A week into primary or when?

Ok. If you split the batch, you won't shock the yeast any more than they have already been shocked. If anything, that should wake them up.
No, do NOT shake it.....swirl it around in the carboy or GENTLY stir, NOT slosh & splash. If you have a problem getting all of the leese off the bottom, stop the racking process when you get close to the bottom & give it another swirl to get that leese into suspension.
I take readings fairly regularly, but, I'm extremely diligent about sanitization, with everything. After you put the must together, you'll want to take a reading every few days to monitor the gravity for your nutrient additions.
I understand you wanted to do it all up front & not have to add anything later, but, you may want to make a few traditional meads first, to get/understand the process of mead making.
Traditional = honey, water, yeast & nutrients, if you have them.
Once you have that down, the rest will become a lot easier.
It's a long read, but, read this thread on BOMM, front to back. It's loaded with a lot of useful information about mead making.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/brays-one-month-mead.429241/

 

[Dan O]

I am going to try this tactics tomorrow! Hopefully I am not too late (as it has been 6 days already) tomorrow will be day 7. Do you recommend I add any more yeast,nutrients,energizer?
thanks so much for your help

I would recommend taking a reading first, after everything has been transferred & mixed. See where your gravity is at. Give it a day or two to reacclimate to the new environment. My guess is, once you lower the gravity some, you'll probably be on your way.

 

[pdhirsch]

Thing that bothers me about this situation is 1 gallon of cider + 4 pounds of honey yielding an OG reading of 1.100. That just can't possibly be right -- not even close. And if you're not measuring SG accurately, you're going to have a hard time with this batch, and with this hobby.
You might want to try measuring SG of plain water, just to make sure your hydrometer and your measuring technique are both OK. Then measure the SG of your must again, before you start making amendments to it.

 

[Nyxsmead]

Ok. If you split the batch, you won't shock the yeast any more than they have already been shocked. If anything, that should wake them up.
No, do NOT shake it.....swirl it around in the carboy or GENTLY stir, NOT slosh & splash. If you have a problem getting all of the leese off the bottom, stop the racking process when you get close to the bottom & give it another swirl to get that leese into suspension.
I take readings fairly regularly, but, I'm extremely diligent about sanitization, with everything. After you put the must together, you'll want to take a reading every few days to monitor the gravity for your nutrient additions.
I understand you wanted to do it all up front & not have to add anything later, but, you may want to make a few traditional meads first, to get/understand the process of mead making.
Traditional = honey, water, yeast & nutrients, if you have them.
Once you have that down, the rest will become a lot easier.
It's a long read, but, read this thread on BOMM, front to back. It's loaded with a lot of useful information about mead making.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/brays-one-month-mead.429241/

Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me. I love the mead community and I really want to learn and get better, I don’t know anyone personally with any brewing experience and my learning style depends on communication so it has been a bit tough trying to teach myself but I’m glad I found this website!
thank you soooo much again!

 

[Nyxsmead]

Thing that bothers me about this situation is 1 gallon of cider + 4 pounds of honey yielding an OG reading of 1.100. That just can't possibly be right -- not even close. And if you're not measuring SG accurately, you're going to have a hard time with this batch, and with this hobby.
You might want to try measuring SG of plain water, just to make sure your hydrometer and your measuring technique are both OK. Then measure the SG of your must again, before you start making amendments to it.

I’m sorry I bothered you with my inaccuracies, honestly, I didn’t write down the OG when I did the reading, it slipped my mind, but I had that visual memory of it and when I tried to remember I had to guesstimate /.\ I remember it being towards the bottom but not too low on the hydrometer and I was just so concerned with my not having a drill that I just wasn’t attentive enough with the reading. I will definitely learn from this. Thank you.

 

[Toxxyc]

My OG was 1.100
The reason I put so much honey in at first was cuz I didn’t want to have to back sweeten or add anything in 2nd fermentation. I don’t have an extra fermenter, just one more 1gallon carboy. I could do the splitting that “miraculix”suggested. :/

I suspect you incorrectly measured the OG, possibly due to some honey not being dissolved.

 

[Dan O]

Thank you for taking the time to explain this to me. I love the mead community and I really want to learn and get better, I don’t know anyone personally with any brewing experience and my learning style depends on communication so it has been a bit tough trying to teach myself but I’m glad I found this website!
thank you soooo much again!

Glad to help. We've all been the new kid in the room @ one point or another with unanswered questions. Others have been very helpful to me, I'm just returning the favor for the new people coming in, just in case nobody else can respond. Good luck.

 

[RufusBrewer]

Maybe you know about this site already. Maybe not.

https://www.meadmaderight.com/

 

[Nyxsmead]

Glad to help. We've all been the new kid in the room @ one point or another with unanswered questions. Others have been very helpful to me, I'm just returning the favor for the new people coming in, just in case nobody else can respond. Good luck.

I still haven’t split the batch, wasn’t able to get to the store. I fear the longer I wait, the less time I have.
Btw, I was wondering if you could tell if it’s fermenting well by the looks of it. I was thinking about posting a video of what it looks like, you can see a lot when I flash a light through it. It’s starting to bubble a lot more now, but I know someone said earlier bubbles mean nothing. A part if me is hoping I “get lucky” but then the other part of me just thinks about how it really is a lot of sugar for the yeast to handle..

 

[Nyxsmead]

Is there a gravity reading that would indicate that my mead isn’t turning into a hot fusel mess?

 

[IslandLizard]

Is there a gravity reading that would indicate that my mead isn’t turning into a hot fusel mess?

A gravity reading has nothing to do with fusel alcohols, they're created by the yeast fermenting at higher temps. Sometimes also due to yeast stress, such as lack of nutrients.

 

[Toxxyc]

A gravity reading has nothing to do with fusel alcohols, they're created by the yeast fermenting at higher temps. Sometimes also due to yeast stress, such as lack of nutrients.

Or due to increased alcohol or sugar content the yeast is working in.