3bbl Electric Control Panel, power concerns.

[Rad-Rabbit]

Also, I'm not sure what you gain from having LEDs in parallel with each of the contactors in the power panels. One LED for each power panel would tell you that it is receiving its 120v control voltage, right? Lastly, it looks like you have the LEDs for the elements in series before the element. They should be in parallel with the element. If I am misinterpreting the diagram, my apologies.

I had the indicators in series but P-J said that they wouldn't carry enough current to energize the contactors. When they were in series they would have done what I wanted IF they would have been able to Carry the current. I might as well only have one in the current setup because if any coil gets power they will all come on. I'll make the corrections.

Jeff, the LED's are there for voltage confirmation. My thoughts are that they are in the actual element housing. That way you know if your cable connection is good, that element is on, and/or that it is cycling as the PID output is indicating. Just a visual aid, nothing more. 'da Kid

Kid, you are correct, the 240v indicator is there just to know the element are cycling and to point out if the float switch is having any problems at which point it can be bypassed by the bypass switch.

I do have concerns about the float switch and turbulence but they have been used in other commercial boil kettle applications so I would hope they would function correctly. The float switch is good up to 150C, 256F.

NEW INFORMATION EDIT:
Intensive agitation of liquid, boiling fluids and surging due to large inflows of liquid can all cause turbulence and erratic float switch operation. This problem can be eliminated by the use of slosh shields with adequately-sized fluid and vent holes, as illustrated here. Available for vertical, horizontal (side-mounted) and multi-point switches with full-size or miniature floats, these slosh shields can be supplied in stainless steel, brass, polypropylene, PBT or Kynar.

 

[Rad-Rabbit]

Photobucket account problems so I re-uploaded them directly to HBT.

 

[P-J]

Rad-Rabbit,

Looks great. Go for it.

P-J

 

[jeffmeh]

I had the indicators in series but P-J said that they wouldn't carry enough current to energize the contactors. When they were in series they would have done what I wanted IF they would have been able to Carry the current. I might as well only have one in the current setup because if any coil gets power they will all come on. I'll make the corrections.



Kid, you are correct, the 240v indicator is there just to know the element are cycling and to point out if the float switch is having any problems at which point it can be bypassed by the bypass switch.
I do have concerns about the float switch and turbulence but they have been used in other commercial boil kettle applications so I would hope they would function correctly. The float switch is good up to 150C, 256F.

OK. Just make sure that the LEDs are 240v ones, and in parallel with the element receptacles (one hot from the SSR and the other from the contactor, just like the element receptacles). Looks great.

 

[P-J]

OK. Just make sure that the LEDs are 240v ones, and in parallel with the element receptacles (one hot from the SSR and the other from the contactor, just like the element receptacles). Looks great.

He has it right. His choice is noted in the Legend as a 240V unit.

 

[MudduckBrewing]

Your Thanks are Welcomed.
Just keep us updated on your progress.
Pay it forward by inspiring the next eBrewer and lend your experience/knowledge when asked.

Oh, and we demand pics(brew rig porn) as payment . . . . .


'da Kid

I love this thread. My business partner and I are currently raising funds for what we plan on being a 3bbl electric. This thread is proving to be a great resource.

 

[Rad-Rabbit]

I'm glad you like my thread. It's been a lot of sleepless nights in the making.

I'm putting together the build list as we speak. With so many design revisions, I have to revise the build list as well. I'll update soon as I can.

Cheers!

 

[Rad-Rabbit]

So I'm going through some of the parts I already have laying around Nd it appears that I have a new VFD sitting in a box. Looks like the Grant pump might have speed control on top of liquid level sensing. I guess I'll be putting one more revision up sometime soon if it something I'm going to use.

 

[Jaybird]

Rad
Is there any way you can load the diagrams like P-J does so I can click on them and print? Love this thread! I am currently in the process of building a 3 BBL electric system and even though I am an industrial electrician its nice to have a place to start from a collective group of master minds to pull from! I will probably make minor changes as I am going to be using a grant with a simple 2 float switch control with start/stop relay and a float controlled fly sparge system but for the power to the HLT and the BK at this point you guys saved me a CRAP LOAD of time and for that, the first beers for you guys are on me!

Cheers
Jay

 

[Rad-Rabbit]

Rad Is there any way you can load the diagrams like P-J does so I can click on them and print? Love this thread! I am currently in the process of building a 3 BBL electric system and even though I am an industrial electrician its nice to have a place to start from a collective group of master minds to pull from! I will probably make minor changes as I am going to be using a grant with a simple 2 float switch control with start/stop relay and a float controlled fly sparge system but for the power to the HLT and the BK at this point you guys saved me a CRAP LOAD of time and for that, the first beers for you guys are on me! Cheers Jay

Hi Jay,
I'll see what I can do for you. My Photobucket account was having problems so I put then up like this so they would still be available until I worked it out.

I actually was thinking about going to a 2 float switch for for the grant but I've used the conductivity setup when brewing on the specific mechanical 10bbl at IronHill Brewery, it works well and there isn't really anything to clean. However, unless find a good deal on the probes I might go to the cheaper float switch.

 

[The10mmKid]

Hey Rad,
You have made no mention of an external sight glass, but we are using these capacitive sensors on a couple nasty chemical tanks at work. They are just performing a 'watchdog' function at present, not maintaining level.

http://www.gemssensors.com/en/Produ.../~/media/GemsNA/CatalogPages/CAP-100-cat.ashx

The sensor is mounted (strapped basically) to the sight glass.
(No tank perforation)

'da Kid

 

[The10mmKid]

Here they are at Automation Direct:
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...ty_Sensors/Rectangular_(CR1_Series)/CR1-00-2A

'da Kid

 

[Rad-Rabbit]

Thanks Kid, but that isn't what I'm talking about, its not a big deal, I can basically make them with some 304l rod if I have to. It's just two probes, one for high level, one for low and a common to the tank.

Edit: boy do I suck at typing on my phone.

 

[The10mmKid]

Oh, I know . . . . . . the probe is the cheap part.
That darn controller is a triple digit budget slayer. $$$

Just throwing some insight out there. I'm fortunate (and cursed) by the high tech stuff we are exposed to at work.

Kinda neat I get to work with milliamp sensors/controllers all the way up to 100's of amps of 3-phase 480V. From scary to delicate . . . . that's my life!

Enjoying watching your system grow from 'napkin' to that first glass.

'da Kid

 

[Rad-Rabbit]

I've got the unit I need picked out. I found a good deal on it. It'll cost me just under $35.00 shipped. It should be costing about $170.00 though. ;-)

 

[Rad-Rabbit]

Ok, I just made the 3 hour trip to my dad's workshop in NEPA. I'm building the 1/3rd bbl pilot E-System this week and then the panel for the 3bbl next (hopefully). I brought both of my welding machines (TIG & MIG). Pics to come.

 

[oldschool1]

Rad,
What's new?
I forgot to mention on Thursday morning that I may have a Gig or two of server space to host pictures for you.

 

[P-J]

Ok, I just made the 3 hour trip to my dad's workshop in NEPA. I'm building the 1/3rd bbl pilot E-System this week and then the panel for the 3bbl next (hopefully). I brought both of my welding machines (TIG & MIG). Pics to come.

Rad,

It has been a while and I sincerely hope all is well with you.

Please let us know and also please E-Mail me the final diagrams as attachment files and I'll post them for you in my usual way.
Use this E-Mail addy: deadspam < click it...

Many thanks and wishing you the very best.

P-J

 

[torque2]

I would be very interested in seeing the final drawings for your set up as well.
I am setting up a 2 1/2 bbl electric system, but am going to go with three 5,500w elements. in the hlt and bk. If I'm not doing back to back batches is there a way I could set up my panel with just three outputs that I can unplug from my hlt and plug into my bk and back again? Sure would cut down on my parts/labor.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Excellent thread.......subscribed.

 

[stevehaun]

Torque2:
I have a one barrel system with two 4500 watt elements in both the HLT and BK. I don't run them simultaneously. I have a 50 amp control panel with two outlets. During the mash the HLT is plugged in. During the boil, the BK is plugged in. Simple and way cheaper.

 

[torque2]

Thanks for the response. Are you running PIDs for your set up(single or two)? I built a control panel for my 10 gallon system with 1 PID and a switch to move from HLT to BK, but after building it I realized I could have just swapped plugs and utilized the auto/manual on the PID(which I have to do anyway.) Only downside now is my panel won't be near as impressive, but "panel envy" probably shouldn't be my concern:cross:
I'm working on a plan to utilize some solar hot water collectors I've had sitting around to heat my HLT via heat exchanger.

 

[Sweet_Asylum_Brewing]

Photobucket account problems so I re-uploaded them directly to HBT.

Hey Rad,

I know this thread is a little old but I have been searching on here for a 3 BBL system build and you seem to have as close to what I want as I can find. I was wondering if this was the final wiring diagram you went with? If so, do you mind either uploading the printable one or sending it to me via email? Also, if you have any pictures of your panel that would be cool to see. I am in the process of planning my nano and I want to build before buy a control panel. I have my own thread as well if you'd like to post it there.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=537589
Thanks!

 

[Rad-Rabbit]

Hey guys, sorry I've been away from the forum for a while. I'll get the pics up for you all soon. I think my dad has them on his computer still. I've been really busy working on the brewery. It has so little to do with brewing and so much to do with code enforcers, permits, plumbing, electricians, licensing etc.
I work on getting them up in a few day for all of you.

 

[DevildogJn]

So I just sat here and read this whole thread for the first time. I too am in the planning stages of a 3bbl nano brewery. The electrical stuff is what I lack the most knowledge in. My main question is about the power feeds, Is that diagram from PJ showing 4 power lines coming from a fuse box to the control panel? I obviously wont be doing any of this without talking to a contractor first.

Does anyone know what would change in the wiring process if I choose to use a raspberry pi instead of a pid?

 

[Rad-Rabbit]

First, These are not PJ diagrams but he did help. Second, your contractor won't likely be able to tell you anything because these are plans are likely not in his skill set. That said, it should be up to NEC code as is. You can swap the PID for any controller you choose. I don't have experience with raspberry pi but a PLC would be an easy swap for me. If I can find the original drawings I'll post them up but what I already poster seems clear enough to read IMO. What you see is 2 x 60a circuits being split into 4 x 30a for each element with the most redundant safety of any drawing up to the point it was posted. I haven't been posting much since I'm getting pretty deep opening my brewery.