34/70 fermentation help

[VV_Wildcatfan]

I'm brewing my first lager this morning (a Marzen) and using two packets of 34/70. I know I've read before about pitching at 50F and holding there for two weeks before raising to 60F for a d-rest, but I can't seem to find it with a search . I was wondering what the forum's thoughts were on this schedule? Is two weeks an appropriate d-rest? Can I fine with gelatin and cold crash in primary right after d-rest and then transfer to keg for lagering?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Sammy86]

Since 34/70 has in my experience been a quick worker...I let my lager sit 61° for 5 days then upped the temp to 68° for the d-rest. I had reached FG on day 8...as far as gelatin that would work!

 

[passedpawn]

I brew lots of lagers. I use W34/70 fairly often.

• 2 weeks @ 50F will get it within 5 points of FG
• + 5 days @ 60 will finish it.
• + 2 or 3 days @ 32 with gelatin will mostly clear it, and another 3 weeks @35 in the keg, on gas, will get it carbed and clear enough for a marzen. Even more time, or filtering, is good for a pilsner.

 

[tennesseean_87]

You need to do the d-rest before you hit terminal gravity, so measuring your progress is key.

 

[VV_Wildcatfan]

Thanks! I'll start checking gravity early next week and bump it up around 1.020 or so. Sounds like I need to only keep it at 60 for 5-7 days?

 

[brewbama]

http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/ start raising the temp after ~ 5 days.

 

[booth74]

My experience with 34/70 has been great, typically 1.050 beers are down to 1.020 within 4 days then I ramp up to 65-68 for another 4 days
gelatin in the primary for 2 days then into the keg

 

[Morrey]

I brew lots of lagers. I use W34/70 fairly often.

• 2 weeks @ 50F will get it within 5 points of FG
• + 5 days @ 60 will finish it.
• + 2 or 3 days @ 32 with gelatin will mostly clear it, and another 3 weeks @35 in the keg, on gas, will get it carbed and clear enough for a marzen. Even more time, or filtering, is good for a pilsner.

I like your proposed schedule. I have decided to use more 34/70 since it seems simple to rehydrate (no hassle w/starters), long shelf life, no summer shipping concerns to speak of plus is a bit less expensive than a comparable WLP 830 which I understand is a similar strain.

I ask you this considering your brewing experience with lagers and 34/70. My tastes are varied, but I tend to shy away from malt heavy beers like Vienna Lagers which tend to get a bit cloying (to me) at times. Do you happen to have a house recipe for a good Pilsner that is nicely balanced and has a crisp, refreshing profile using 34/70? I surely appreciate any link you may provide.

I am doing a Grolsch clone this weekend with WLP 850, and as stated, looking for a house Pilsner that shines with 34/70.

Thanks!!!

 

[passedpawn]

I like your proposed schedule. I have decided to use more 34/70 since it seems simple to rehydrate (no hassle w/starters), long shelf life, no summer shipping concerns to speak of plus is a bit less expensive than a comparable WLP 830 which I understand is a similar strain.

I ask you this considering your brewing experience with lagers and 34/70. My tastes are varied, but I tend to shy away from malt heavy beers like Vienna Lagers which tend to get a bit cloying (to me) at times. Do you happen to have a house recipe for a good Pilsner that is nicely balanced and has a crisp, refreshing profile using 34/70? I surely appreciate any link you may provide.

I am doing a Grolsch clone this weekend with WLP 850, and as stated, looking for a house Pilsner that shines with 34/70.

Thanks!!!

I do. I make a pilsner with only pilsner malt and tettnang. Keep the OG under 1.050 if you like it crisp.

 

[Upthewazzu]

Here's some technical data straight from the horse's mouth: http://www.fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Saflager-W-3470-en.pdf

FERMENTATION TEMPERATURE: 9-22°C (48.2-71.6°F) ideally 12-15°C (53.6-59°F)

I'm brewing a PL/IPL this weekend. I plan on fermenting at 53° and then ramping to 65° after about 2 weeks.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

I've been brewing a lot w/ 34/70 lately after the Brulosophy stuff and stumbling onto the warm fermented lager thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/592169/. I love that this yeast can produce clean lagers at ale temps. My fermentation chamber seems to have crapped out during a move and I haven't had the time or $ to fix or replace it yet. I've fermented at 65-70 with great results! Not saying that's best practice, just saying that it is a flexible yeast strain that doesn't throw a lot of esters at higher temps.

 

[waldoar15]

I just put a lager into D-rest after only 7 days because it was within a few points of finishing.

2 packs 34/70 on a 1.049 beer fermented @ 52*. I doubt if it needed the rest, but I might be one of those people that can't detect diacetyl all that well. Still going to leave it 21 days in primary.

 

[passedpawn]

I've been brewing a lot w/ 34/70 lately after the Brulosophy stuff and stumbling onto the warm fermented lager thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/592169/. I love that this yeast can produce clean lagers at ale temps. My fermentation chamber seems to have crapped out during a move and I haven't had the time or $ to fix or replace it yet. I've fermented at 65-70 with great results! Not saying that's best practice, just saying that it is a flexible yeast strain that doesn't throw a lot of esters at higher temps.

I've been doing just the opposite. I've been brewing all my ales as lagers, with lager yeast and at lager temperatures. I have a IPA on tap right now made that way. I like the beers hoppy without too much body.

 

[Steveruch]

2 packs 34/70 on a 1.049 beer fermented @ 52*. I doubt if it needed the rest, but I might be one of those people that can't detect diacetyl all that well. Still going to leave it 21 days in primary.

I've used 34/70 a lot, including an imperial pilsner, and have never needed a d-rest.

 

[Morrey]

Like I mentioned in post #8, I am looking for a dry lager yeast alternative to liquids, and feel 34/70 may be my best choice. In fact I bought 12 packs so I'm pretty well invested at this point.

I'll probably fermenter these 34/70 Pilsners at 55F which seems to be in the sweet spot for this strain. Andrew likes 50F so that is right inline with my Lager range also. I usually bump temps up a shade for a D rest to encourage completion, but I'll see.

Question: Does this strain produce lots of horrible smelling off gasses during the first part of active fermentation? I just finished up a Lager with Papazian's Cry Havoc Lager yeast, and that smell was so acrid I had to run vent fans. I left it in fermenter an extra week and the beer is surprisingly clean considering where it started. Any harsh odors with 34/70?

 

[friarsmith]

I like your proposed schedule. I have decided to use more 34/70 since it seems simple to rehydrate (no hassle w/starters), long shelf life, no summer shipping concerns to speak of plus is a bit less expensive than a comparable WLP 830 which I understand is a similar strain.

I ask you this considering your brewing experience with lagers and 34/70. My tastes are varied, but I tend to shy away from malt heavy beers like Vienna Lagers which tend to get a bit cloying (to me) at times. Do you happen to have a house recipe for a good Pilsner that is nicely balanced and has a crisp, refreshing profile using 34/70? I surely appreciate any link you may provide.

I am doing a Grolsch clone this weekend with WLP 850, and as stated, looking for a house Pilsner that shines with 34/70.

Thanks!!!

I brew mainly with WLP850 and 34/70 and done at least a dozen 10 gallon split batches of German Pils, International Pale Lagers, Dortmunders (all with pellet hops), and several basic 10 gallon "Americany" IPL's and pale lagers with home grown hops with both yeasts.

In side-by-side comparisons, with both fermenters handled the same, 34/70 is always more balanced-to-malty than WLP850. And 34/70 takes a week or so longer to clear out in the keg, even with gelatin, in my experience. So if you're trying to make a "crisp" pale lager with 34/70, consider bumping up the IBU's by 5 ish and perhaps adjusting your water to increase the perceived bite. Mashing for fermentability and shooting for a FG of 1.008-1.010 is a good idea too for your intended result.

FWIW, a year or so ago, I made an "Accidental Bitburger" clone with 34/70 because my mash rest at 146* went 30 minutes longer than expected due to a neighbor needing help. The beer finished at 1.006 and was hella-spritzy and hoppy. So you can coax out the malty-leaning nature of 34/70 with process adjustments.

 

[Morrey]

I brew mainly with WLP850 and 34/70 and done at least a dozen 10 gallon split batches of German Pils, International Pale Lagers, Dortmunders (all with pellet hops), and several basic 10 gallon "Americany" IPL's and pale lagers with home grown hops with both yeasts.

In side-by-side comparisons, with both fermenters handled the same, 34/70 is always more balanced-to-malty than WLP850. And 34/70 takes a week or so longer to clear out in the keg, even with gelatin, in my experience. So if you're trying to make a "crisp" pale lager with 34/70, consider bumping up the IBU's by 5 ish and perhaps adjusting your water to increase the perceived bite. Mashing for fermentability and shooting for a FG of 1.008-1.010 is a good idea too for your intended result.

FWIW, a year or so ago, I made an "Accidental Bitburger" clone with 34/70 because my mash rest at 146* went 30 minutes longer than expected due to a neighbor needing help. The beer finished at 1.006 and was hella-spritzy and hoppy. So you can coax out the malty-leaning nature of 34/70 with process adjustments.

Really good information! I can usually push the beer toward my taste preference skewing towards sulfates and a lighter side of chlorides. Mashing lower at 148F for dryness, IBU...what do you say pushing 30? High enough? Straight up Pils malts targeting 1.050 OG. A shot of Carapils for head retention and mouthfeel mashing that low?

 

[friarsmith]

I think 33-40 IBU’s is about right for a crisp pils, all things considered. In the Bitburger/Jever neighborhood— but that’s my personal preference only.

Whether you decoct or not, I think a 45 min rest at 146-8 for fermentability and 15 mins at 155-158* for some body are both good ideas.

Yeah, 3-5% Carafoam or Carapils with a pils base should do the trick. Personally, I like Best Pils malt, but any good Continental maltser will work.

 

[Morrey]

Excellent^^^. This works for me!

 

[Metalhead_brewer]

My experience with 34/70 has been great, typically 1.050 beers are down to 1.020 within 4 days then I ramp up to 65-68 for another 4 days
gelatin in the primary for 2 days then into the keg

Exactly the same happened with my first lager a Rauchbier O.G. 1.053 at 59F for 4 days was down to 1.020, D-rest for 4 days at 68F and got 1.013 and now is lagering at 33F for 3-4 weeks before botling

 

[waldoar15]

Question: Does this strain produce lots of horrible smelling off gasses during the first part of active fermentation? I just finished up a Lager with Papazian's Cry Havoc Lager yeast, and that smell was so acrid I had to run vent fans. I left it in fermenter an extra week and the beer is surprisingly clean considering where it started. Any harsh odors with 34/70?

Mine was in a chest freezer and I never smell anything when I open it.

 

[Metalhead_brewer]

Question: Does this strain produce lots of horrible smelling off gasses during the first part of active fermentation? I just finished up a Lager with Papazian's Cry Havoc Lager yeast, and that smell was so acrid I had to run vent fans. I left it in fermenter an extra week and the beer is surprisingly clean considering where it started. Any harsh odors with 34/70?

It Hapened to me, first 2 days i opened the fermentation chamber to check for bubbling and i perceived a bad smell just like mead fermentation but in next 3-4 days it smelled good, like normally fermenting beer smells.

 

[elreplica]

Wow! I've never missed with 34/70 and even got (get) where I blend it with S23... never had a bad beer and last one was lagered for 8 months, kegged and was great!

 

[friarsmith]

It Hapened to me, first 2 days i opened the fermentation chamber to check for bubbling and i perceived a bad smell just like mead fermentation but in next 3-4 days it smelled good, like normally fermenting beer smells.

Yeah, 34/70 can be a little sulfury early in primary fermentation. Not as much as other lager yeasts. It will burn off...

 

[jcav]

I've been doing just the opposite. I've been brewing all my ales as lagers, with lager yeast and at lager temperatures. I have a IPA on tap right now made that way. I like the beers hoppy without too much body.

Might have to try using lager yeast on my next IPA! Thanks for the idea!

John