22 gal pwm kettle

[defenestrate]

i have a 22 gallon kettle on the way that i plan to build as electric. i got this size for 15 gal batch capacity, but will be running mostly 5-10 gallon batches. and plan on running a pwm with 5500 watt element. i'm going to be heating the mash and sparge water in the bk and will not be running a rims/herms-i just want to use the pwm for simple boil strength control. i know the 5500 is more than enough for 10 gal and overkill for 5, but i want to have more power than needed and to help speed up mash and sparge times.

i've been spending a lot of time trying to wrap my head around all of this electrical stuff. I have a 240 v outlet for my dryer- will i be able to run some sort of extension cord from the outlet to the box for this to work?

 

[IrregularPulse]

Yes, but how long are you running it? That will be a fairly expensive cord.

 

[defenestrate]

Yes, but how long are you running it? That will be a fairly expensive cord.

15 ft if i want to brew outside. in my current townhouse i'm renting the dryer is right off the kitchen, so conceivably i could brew in the kitchen but i also would like to be able to run the cord out the door outside.

 

[IrregularPulse]

You're probably looking around 5-6 bucks a foot for the cable, then the connectors on either end.

 

[defenestrate]

You're probably looking around 5-6 bucks a foot for the cable, then the connectors on either end.

yikes. if i were to run it inside, can i have the element plugged into the wall directly?

 

[Hermit]

You're probably looking around 5-6 bucks a foot for the cable, then the connectors on either end.

I don't remember what I payed, but mine wasn't nearly that expensive at HD or Lowes. Don't remember which now.

 

[IrregularPulse]

You'll want 10g wire. Find out what you actually have power wise on the outlet. It will be between 240-220 likely. 5500W/the voltage will tell you your actual current draw. Your cable needs rated to at least this value.

 

[SweetSounds]

You need 10 gauge SO cable for that - It's not more then $1.00 a foot if you look around for it.

(Assuming your dryer is 30 amp 240v) If I were you I would build your control box (Housing the PWM) with a 25 foot 10/3 whip and the appropriate 30 amp connector on the other end.

 

[IrregularPulse]

You need 10 gauge SO cable for that - It's not more then $1.00 a foot if you look around for it.

(Assuming your dryer is 30 amp 240v) If I were you I would build your control box (Housing the PWM) with a 25 foot 10/3 whip and the appropriate 30 amp connector on the other end.

Where do you find it for less than $1/ft?

http://www.awcwire.com/Part.aspx?code=300H36H8J53

 

[SweetSounds]

Where do you find it for less than $1/ft?

http://www.awcwire.com/Part.aspx?code=300H36H8J53

Might have been $2.00/ft
Buy a 10 gauge extension cord and cut the ends off.
Lowes/HomeDepot/Menards/Etc

 

[defenestrate]

You need 10 gauge SO cable for that - It's not more then $1.00 a foot if you look around for it.

(Assuming your dryer is 30 amp 240v) If I were you I would build your control box (Housing the PWM) with a 25 foot 10/3 whip and the appropriate 30 amp connector on the other end.

would this work?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002G9TNDS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[SweetSounds]

would this work?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002G9TNDS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Yep

 

[defenestrate]

Yep

cool... so then i would have to wire that to a plug (like a dryer plug)?

 

[SweetSounds]

cool... so then i would have to wire that to a plug (like a dryer plug)?

Yep.

Which of these looks like your dryer outlet?

I'm going to guess NEMA 10-30

If that's the case, you need to get a Male cable end and a female cable end and attach them to your cable. It's really easy with a screw driver and a T-stripper...

You can find both at your favorite home store

 

[defenestrate]

Yep.

Which of these looks like your dryer outlet?

I'm going to guess NEMA 10-30

If that's the case, you need to get a Male cable end and a female cable end and attach them to your cable. It's really easy with a screw driver and a T-stripper...

You can find both at your favorite home store

yeah i'm pretty sure thats it, i'll double check when i get home from work. if so, i would use this plug with the male/female ends to attach?

http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=4745

 

[SweetSounds]

yeah i'm pretty sure thats it, i'll double check when i get home from work. if so, i would use this plug with the male/female ends to attach?

http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=4745

Yea. That's the male. That's too much money though. Lowes/Home Depot have cheaper versions. I think the male is around $8.00 and you can get a female wall mount receptacle and some cable grips for the other end. Should be around $10.00. Female NEMA 10-30 cable ends are hard to come by and not cheap...

 

[defenestrate]

Yea. That's the male. That's too much money though. Lowes/Home Depot have cheaper versions. I think the male is around $8.00 and you can get a female wall mount receptacle and some cable grips for the other end. Should be around $10.00. Female NEMA 10-30 cable ends are hard to come by and not cheap...

why would i need another receptacle? wouldnt i be wiring the plug to the 25 ft ext cable, then just plugging it into the wall outlet?

 

[SweetSounds]

why would i need another receptacle? wouldnt i be wiring the plug to the 25 ft ext cable, then just plugging it into the wall outlet?

Yep, you're right

 

[defenestrate]

Yea. That's the male. That's too much money though. Lowes/Home Depot have cheaper versions. I think the male is around $8.00 and you can get a female wall mount receptacle and some cable grips for the other end. Should be around $10.00. Female NEMA 10-30 cable ends are hard to come by and not cheap...

some quick searching turned this us for $15... not seeing anything cheaper from hp/lowes yet
http://www.steadypower.com/catalog/product_info.php?&products_id=1535&tb=specs

 

[SweetSounds]

some quick searching turned this us for $15... not seeing anything cheaper from hp/lowes yet
http://www.steadypower.com/catalog/product_info.php?&products_id=1535&tb=specs

That's a NEMA twist lock. Not what you're looking for. You want a straight blade plug.

I can't find them online, but I guarantee you they are in the store. And they're not too expensive.

 

[defenestrate]

seems too good to be true, but would this work for the pwm?

http://www.bakatronics.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=383

 

[milldoggy]

Instead of a dryer cable, this cable should work, right
4 wire, flexible, 1.42 a ft

http://www.stayonline.com/searchresult.aspx?categoryid=3295

 

[milldoggy]

This looks like a straight blade for 17

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-L1430P/p1074.html

 

[SweetSounds]

That PWM will work, but has to be modified to a longer interval. Motor controllers will switch the power on and off many many times per second. That's extremely hard on a SSR. YOu need to change the capacitor to make the on/off interval at least 1-2 seconds.

That 10-3 will work fine. You don't need 10-4 unless you plan to pull 120 volts for something. You'll find 120 volts from either hot wire to neutral. 240 is hot to hot. If it's just the PWM and the element, you can run everything at 240.

 

[defenestrate]

This looks like a straight blade for 17

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Reliance-Controls-L1430P/p1074.html

this is a 4 prong, i need a 3.

 

[defenestrate]

That PWM will work, but has to be modified to a longer interval. Motor controllers will switch the power on and off many many times per second. That's extremely hard on a SSR. YOu need to change the capacitor to make the on/off interval at least 1-2 seconds.

yeah, i saw that in another thread about switching that.

That 10-3 will work fine. You don't need 10-4 unless you plan to pull 120 volts for something. You'll find 120 volts from either hot wire to neutral. 240 is hot to hot. If it's just the PWM and the element, you can run everything at 240

this wire? http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=15113

i am considering going to herms later... do you guys think i should consider going the PID route?
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_ id=3&zenid=536b4049734604428f30ff26e1743a0e

 

[SweetSounds]

this wire? http://www.stayonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=15113

i am considering going to herms later... do you guys think i should consider going the PID route?
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_ id=3&zenid=536b4049734604428f30ff26e1743a0e

Yep - That wire.
PID is a good option if you want it. It's not necessary, though. For your BK a PID is overkill. You just need a throttle on a big element. For mashing though, PID is the only way to go.

And if you design it right, you can implement both in the same box, and use it for both mashing and the boil... All for about $45 difference (By adding the PID and a switch)

 

[defenestrate]

Yep - That wire.
PID is a good option if you want it. It's not necessary, though. For your BK a PID is overkill. You just need a throttle on a big element. For mashing though, PID is the only way to go.

And if you design it right, you can implement both in the same box, and use it for both mashing and the boil... All for about $45 difference (By adding the PID and a switch)

that was going to be my next question... if i could keep the pwm for bk control and heating off the mash water in the bk, then use a PID in a cooler for the HLT.

 

[defenestrate]

and here is the element i will be ordering

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/images/water-heater-element-02963.jpg

5500 eld, $26

 

[SweetSounds]

that was going to be my next question... if i could keep the pwm for bk control and heating off the mash water in the bk, then use a PID in a cooler for the HLT.

You can do it one of two ways...
(Disclaimer: It is my preference to use one SSR for each leg of a 240 volt load)

You can use 2 SSRs for one element hookup, and use a switch to connect either the PWM or the PID to the SSR triggers. This way you flip the switch to "Manual" or "Auto" And plug the RIMs/HERMs element in for the mash, and then plug in the BK element for the boil.

Or you can use 4 SSRs, and hook the PWM to one pair to drive the BK element, and the other pair to the PID to drive a RIMs or HERMs. Essentially, the cost difference is in the extra parts. To double the outputs, you need to double the SSRs, wire, and 240v plugs.

Both are great options, and both are used by many here. Just be aware of your load - If you go with option 2 you can never use both at the same time on a 30 amp circuit. If you want to use both, you'll need to move up to a 50 amp service - Which requires heavier wire and components.

Volts X Amps = Watts
Watts / Volts = Amps

So 5500 / 240 = 22.9 Amps - Well inside your 30 amp service
5500(BK) + 2000(RIMs) = 7500 /240 = 31.25 amps - 30 amps isn't enough
2 X 5500 = 11000 / 240 = 45.83 amps - Time for a bigger breaker, 6 gauge wire instead of 10, yadda yadda yadda

The other thing to remember (In option 2, with a 30 amp service) is that you can't even run both elements at the same time at 50% power. Because of the way pulse width modulation works...
A 50% power setting at the PWM means 100% power to the element, 50% of the time. It's the same for a PID as well.
So if both the PID and the PWM are set for 50%, and they both fire (100%) at the same time, it's a 200% load on your system.

Edit: that's probably in the top 2 most used elements here - You'll be in good company.