Vessel(s) for 5-gallon batch

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jsulmar

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I've brewed smaller batches, but I plan a 5 gallon batch next. I'd like to use a single vessel for mash/boil. What size boil kettle is recommended for 5 gallon batch? John Palmer in "How to Brew" states "The BIAB method needs a larger kettle than the Mash Lauter Tun method, but a 15 gal. vessel should work for both". I wonder if 15 gal. is overkill.
 
I have an Update International 10-gallon stainless pot. I am a little disturbed to read that it's too small for heavy beers, because I had no problem making a few. Now I'm wondering if I'm living in a simulation or something. I moved to it from my Braumeister because the Braumeister is not good for heavy beers. I got to around 1.085 with no sugar added. Just grain.

I know Bobby_M is a serious brewer, so I take what he says seriously, but the pot seems to work fine. What am I missing here?
 
It has a lot to do with how much wort you want to put into the fermenter. A 5 gallon batch isn't always a 5 gallon batch. Some people put 5.25, 5.5, 5.75, 6 gallons into the fermenter based on how much sampling they plan to do or how much trub they want to dump. Some people leave more or less wort in the kettle to keep as much trub out of the fermenter. Etc. You probably don't have any losses.
 
Yeah, that makes sense. My last batch started with 9.5 gallons of water and almost 18 pounds of grain.

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I ended the boil with 7 gallons and put 5.75 into my 7 gallon fermonster fermenter.

If I reduced that whole thing by exactly 1 gallon of starting water and put almost all of it into the fermenter, it would have JUST fit into 10 gallons. It was only a 7% abv beer so if you do an imperial stout at 10%, no dice at 10 gallons.
 
I never really thought about maxing out the pot. The most grain I have used was 16.4 pounds, and that took around 7 gallons of mash water. It fit. Brewer's Friend seems to think I should have used closer to 5. I'm using 6-gallon Torpedos as fermenters.

As for sparging, I just squeeze the bag. I thought avoiding the sparge was part of the beauty of BIAB, so I chose not to do it. I've been back at this for two years. I moved to BIAB one year ago, and I haven't sparged since.

Until just now, I had no idea what "boil rate" was. I looked it up. I didn't know it mattered. No idea what mine is. I keep the kettle boiling, but just barely. I use Fermcap.

It wasn't until last month that I made any effort to figure out how to measure the volume of the wort. I use a tape measure. About 1.15" is a gallon. I used to hit my number and then pour whatever I had into the fermenter.

Usually, I end up with a wort that's a little heavy and not quite 5 gallons, so I dilute it with hot water until I get my number. I just figured that was the way. At least once, I've had a little wort to spare.

It usually seems to work, so I haven't been motivated to change anything. For that matter, I use my HBS's crush, I never ask how far apart the rollers are, and the gravity seems to come out right. I've seen people here talking about the importance of getting the crush just right. Maybe I'm really lucky. I did miss on the low side with a heavy ale last year. No idea why.
 
This is interesting, because when I got my water tested, I didn't take the results and multiply them to account for the water I'm boiling off. If a given figure is 5 units, and I'm boiling 7 gallons down to 5, then the water that ends up in the beer has 7 units.
 
It sounds like a 10-gallon pot works for a lot of heavy beers, with room to spare, but may be marginal for some. I have three beers that use table sugar, so they don't take up a lot of room.

I think I would rather struggle with a 10-gallon pot, 22 pounds of grain, and 7 gallons of water than disrupt my whole life with a bigger pot. Things are really convenient with the pot I have. It fits on my kitchen stove, and it's not too heavy to deal with.
 
I’m doing it on my stove top with an 8 gallon kettle. I generally shoot for 5.5-6 gallons into the fermenter. It’s definitely not ideal. Fortunately I haven’t tried anything over about 1.060. My brews are usually in the mid 1.050’s. For me that’s 12-14 lbs grain mashed in about 6 gallons of water. Then when I pull the bag, I start a stock pot with about 1.5 gallons and when it’s boiling I add that to the kettle to bring me to pre-boil volume. As you might guess, my efficiency is not great either. Usually around 65-68%.
Like I said, not ideal, but for now it works. I think I would be fine with a 10 gallon kettle, but I have yet to fine one that will fit between the stove top and microwave above.
 
I have been using a 10 gallon Gas One kettle as both my mash tun and boil kettle and it has worked well for 5 gallon batches for me. My ABV's are usually between 5.5 and 6.5. I think anything bigger might be overkill, but I have never used anything else so I don't know. I do agree that having a bit more room gives you the flexibility but for me, the 10 gallon worked out perfectly.
 
I use a 10 gallon (MegaPot) BIAB system. Most of my brews have an upper end ABV of 6.5-6.8%, full volume mash (no sparge), 5.25-5.5 gallons into the fermenter and 70% BH efficiency. Never had an overflow issue... usually have a couple of inches of headroom to spare. If you plan to brew much higher AVB beers, go with a 15 gallon kettle.
 
I do 10 gallon + batches most of time - the aim if to fill 2 corny kegs (either 2 fives or one 6.5 + 3) which works out to about 11 gallons for the batch if I want to account for loss in trub and grain absorption.

It can be done... But your life is easier with a 14+ gallon kettle or AIO pot or system. I use a Brewzilla and the extension makes life much easier for bigger batches or super strong imperial brews.
 
A 15 gal. kettle would probably be the best choice. Enough room to brew higher abv beers if so desired. I use a 15 gal megapot for my 5 gal batches, usually 10 or 11 lbs of grain and 7.3 gal of water for a 5or 6% beer. No boil overs.
 
I'm a long time advocate of the 3X rule...

Buy a kettle 3X your standard batch size. This will allow you to brew ANYTHING, even very high OG beers at the 5 gal batch size.

If you will never make a 5 gal high OG or RIS type beer or only do like half batch/2.5 gal on the high OG stuff....then you can get away with 2X your standard batch size as you can do a high OG 2.5 gal batch in a 10 gal kettle.
 
I wonder if 15 gal. is overkill.
I did BIAB with a 10 gal kettle for several years and felt that was a very good size. I target 5.5 gallons into the fermenter, and found I could get up to around a 1.070 beer with a full volume mash (higher gravity for styles where sugars are added into the boil). If I wanted a higher gravity wort or wanted a bit more volume (say to make up for loss for heavily dry hopped beers) I would add in a dunk sparge step. I could also brew a smaller batch size. I was able to make 5.5 gals of wort for an Imperial Stout in the 1.120 range with a dunk sparge (it was a bit of work moving around that grain bag).

I acquired a 15 gallon kettle from a friend with a ball valve (my 10 gallon did not have a ball valve). For most batches, I found the 15 gallon kettle to be overkill. It is rather big and heavy to clean. It does give flexibility for doing full volume mashes for bigger beers. Also, I have been able to brew a few split batches of 11 gallons of wort with that kettle. I have been wanting to drill my 10 gallon kettle and add a ball valve, but I picked up a 10.5 gal Anvil Foundry a few months back, and that will likely be what I use for making 5 gallon batches.

Note that this discussion does depend a bit on process specifics such as efficiency, grain absorption, boil off rate, and kettle loss.
 
A 3 lb bag of Briess Golden Light DME replaces 4.5 lbs of generic 2-row base malt (at 80% lauter efficiency*), and I build that into all of my higher gravity (1080+) recipes.


* he typed, without bothering to double-check his recipes, and after drinking a 12% belgian-quad bomber from my favorite nearby brewpub :rock:
 
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