20 gallon SS Brewtech Infussion mash tun

[helibrewer]

Did a 12 gal batch of Kolsch. Was not impressed with the heater add-on. My strike water was preheated to 160F through the night using a 1000W heat stick on a controller so the MT was certainly pre-heated. Lost about 20 degrees during dough-in which really surprised me.....also, the heater unit could not maintain my strike temp of 160.

I will be using my RIMs tube, and I did start using it about 10 minutes into the mash since the dough in dropped the temp so much.

EDIT: Things I do like: Construction, geometry, manometer, easy to clean, no dead space
Things I don't like: Add-on temp unit pigtail too short, add-on heater too weak, recirc port needs bushings to adequately tighten, no "on-off" for digital thermometer

Overall all I like it better than my Igloo and am glad I have it.

 

[sredz]

Did a 12 gal batch of Kolsch. Was not impressed with the heater add-on. My strike water was preheated to 160F through the night using a 1000W heat stick on a controller so the MT was certainly pre-heated. Lost about 20 degrees during dough-in which really surprised me.....also, the heater unit could not maintain my strike temp of 160.

I will be using my RIMs tube, and I did start using it about 10 minutes into the mash since the dough in dropped the temp so much.

EDIT: Things I do like: Construction, geometry, manometer, easy to clean, no dead space
Things I don't like: Add-on temp unit pigtail too short, add-on heater too weak, recirc port needs bushings to adequately tighten, no "on-off" for digital thermometer

Overall all I like it better than my Igloo and am glad I have it.

Thanks for reporting back. I agree with you on all fronts. My experience with the heater was the same. I've tried it several times now and it simply cannot maintain temperatures in this thing. I believe I mashed in at 166 to hit a mash temp of 148 so I had similar heat loss on the dough-in. To date, I've been losing 3 -4 degrees over an hour even with the heater. SS Brew Tech support is pretty insistent that their testing shows otherwise and that they are consistently able to hold temps within a degree. My experience just doesn't support that though. Looks like I'll need to move to a RIMS or HERMS to get more consistent temps.

 

[augiedoggy]

. Looks like I'll need to move to a RIMS or HERMS to get more consistent temps.

That kinda defeats the whole purpose of an insulated mash tun?

 

[Sconnie12]

Did a 12 gal batch of Kolsch. Was not impressed with the heater add-on. My strike water was preheated to 160F through the night using a 1000W heat stick on a controller so the MT was certainly pre-heated. Lost about 20 degrees during dough-in which really surprised me.....also, the heater unit could not maintain my strike temp of 160.

I will be using my RIMs tube, and I did start using it about 10 minutes into the mash since the dough in dropped the temp so much.

EDIT: Things I do like: Construction, geometry, manometer, easy to clean, no dead space
Things I don't like: Add-on temp unit pigtail too short, add-on heater too weak, recirc port needs bushings to adequately tighten, no "on-off" for digital thermometer

Overall all I like it better than my Igloo and am glad I have it.

Thanks for reporting back. I agree with you on all fronts. My experience with the heater was the same. I've tried it several times now and it simply cannot maintain temperatures in this thing. I believe I mashed in at 166 to hit a mash temp of 148 so I had similar heat loss on the dough-in. To date, I've been losing 3 -4 degrees over an hour even with the heater. SS Brew Tech support is pretty insistent that their testing shows otherwise and that they are consistently able to hold temps within a degree. My experience just doesn't support that though. Looks like I'll need to move to a RIMS or HERMS to get more consistent temps.

I guess I'm confused. You drop close to $650 on a item that is suppose to hold temps (+/-1F?) and it drops 5F over an hour even with the heat? I also read you need to pre-heat the vessel too!? Now you're going to drop more money on a RIMS or HERMS, which aren't cheap, because the unit doesn't work as advertised? I'd return it instantly! If nothing else why not exchange it for a standard 20gal kettle and save like $300?

Am I missing something?

 

[geoffey]

I guess I'm confused. You drop close to $650 on a item that is suppose to hold temps (+/-1F?) and it drops 5F over an hour even with the heat? I also read you need to pre-heat the vessel too!? Now you're going to drop more money on a RIMS or HERMS, which aren't cheap, because the unit doesn't work as advertised? I'd return it instantly! If nothing else why not exchange it for a standard 20gal kettle and save like $300?



Am I missing something?

Totally agree with this. If the damn thing doesn't work close to advertised then you should get a refund. But I gotta say, it's really hard to believe and insulated mash tun like this can't hold temps better than what you're experiencing. Especially with that heater. There has to be something else to this story we aren't getting.

 

[augiedoggy]

Maybe the stainless is somehow conducting the heat out of the mash instead of acting as an insulator? seems plastic does have One advantage... I use a 16 gallon bayou kettle now for a mashtun but even when I used my igloo beverage cooler alone I did not see those kind of drops... I wonder if the insulation material is to blame too..
Are you guys brewing out in the freezing cold or something? I guess I shouldnt assume that nice equipment like this would only be found in an indoor brewing setup.

 

[sredz]

Well, at this point, I am just trying to determine if there is something in my process that I am doing wrong or can change to better hold temperatures. My basic process has been to heat my mash water 20 degrees over my target strike-in temperature, transfer it over to the room temperature mash tun (60 degrees) let it fall naturally to strike temp (thus preheating the tun) and then dough-in (60 degree grain). I brew in my basement and the temperature in the room (this time of year) is usually right around 60 degrees. I emailed SS Brew Tech support again to see if they have any other advice. They suggested the following:

A few additional tips that might help you reduce heat loss over 60 minutes.

1. If you are not using the upper recirculation port, that is a point where heat escapes, swap it out for the silicone boot or plug the whole with aluminum foil until you ultimately decide to use it for recirculating your mash.

2. Thoroughly inspect your lid seal to make sure that no heat is escaping there. The silicone gasket should be completely resting on the rim of the mash tun creating an air-tight seal. We see this with users all the time, typically there is a sweet spot for mating the lid to the tun, run your hand along the upper rim to insure that you don't feel heat escaping. If you do, rotate the lid 45 degrees and recheck it.

3. Remove the lid as little as possible. Removing it allows all the residual heat from the grist to escape, then even more heat is pulled away from the grain bed to re-stabilize the temp inside the tun. When we run our tests, we never remove the lid, that is how we are able to achieve heat loss statistics of around 1 degree per hour. It may sound trivial, but this is one of the biggest reasons users don't hit their numbers; they are always unnecessarily stirring and checking their mash temp. That is precisely why we put an LCD temp gauge and thermowell on the outside, so you don't need to remove the lid.

4. Thin out your mash, if you are mashing thick at 1.2 qts/lb, thin it out to 1.5 qts a lb. The specific heat of water is very high, and a larger water volume helps to stabilize temps.

Believe it or not, just these four factors should be good for another 1-2 degrees over 60 mins. Give them a try!

 

[geoffey]

How many more degrees higher are you mashing in than your targeted mash temp? For example, if you target a 155 temp for your mash, and you are transferring your strike water over at 175, you probably lose 10-12 degrees in the transfer and as the tun heat up. You're going to lose an additional 5-10 degrees at mash in due to the temp of the grain. So you might need to mash in at 165 to hit 155. And if your water temp has lost more than 10 degrees already after transferring to the MT then you're already behind.

 

[augiedoggy]

How many more degrees higher are you mashing in than your targeted mash temp? For example, if you target a 155 temp for your mash, and you are transferring your strike water over at 175, you probably lose 10-12 degrees in the transfer and as the tun heat up. You're going to lose an additional 5-10 degrees at mash in due to the temp of the grain. So you might need to mash in at 165 to hit 155. And if your water temp has lost more than 10 degrees already after transferring to the MT then you're already behind.

I heat my water to 163 degrees before transferring it to my uninsulated MT before doughing in once I've added the grain I'm usually around 150 and then I start my rim recirculation so with 165 degree water should get him around 152 degrees at room temp environment..

 

[augiedoggy]

Well, at this point, I am just trying to determine if there is something in my process that I am doing wrong or can change to better hold temperatures. My basic process has been to heat my mash water 20 degrees over my target strike-in temperature, transfer it over to the room temperature mash tun (60 degrees) let it fall naturally to strike temp (thus preheating the tun) and then dough-in (60 degree grain). I brew in my basement and the temperature in the room (this time of year) is usually right around 60 degrees. I emailed SS Brew Tech support again to see if they have any other advice. They suggested the following:

A few additional tips that might help you reduce heat loss over 60 minutes.

1. If you are not using the upper recirculation port, that is a point where heat escapes, swap it out for the silicone boot or plug the whole with aluminum foil until you ultimately decide to use it for recirculating your mash.

2. Thoroughly inspect your lid seal to make sure that no heat is escaping there. The silicone gasket should be completely resting on the rim of the mash tun creating an air-tight seal. We see this with users all the time, typically there is a sweet spot for mating the lid to the tun, run your hand along the upper rim to insure that you don't feel heat escaping. If you do, rotate the lid 45 degrees and recheck it.

3. Remove the lid as little as possible. Removing it allows all the residual heat from the grist to escape, then even more heat is pulled away from the grain bed to re-stabilize the temp inside the tun. When we run our tests, we never remove the lid, that is how we are able to achieve heat loss statistics of around 1 degree per hour. It may sound trivial, but this is one of the biggest reasons users don't hit their numbers; they are always unnecessarily stirring and checking their mash temp. That is precisely why we put an LCD temp gauge and thermowell on the outside, so you don't need to remove the lid.

4. Thin out your mash, if you are mashing thick at 1.2 qts/lb, thin it out to 1.5 qts a lb. The specific heat of water is very high, and a larger water volume helps to stabilize temps.

Believe it or not, just these four factors should be good for another 1-2 degrees over 60 mins. Give them a try!

Are you saying your not recirculating? I would think that necessary with the heater or your gonna have a concentrated area by your heater that up to temp and uneven lower temps everywhere else.. Where is the temp probe for the heater? If its near your heater that's likely what's going in (if your not recirculating)

 

[helibrewer]

The silicone heating pad is on the bottom of the MT, the temp sensor is in the thermowell, 6-7" above the bottom.

 

[helibrewer]

Brew in the garage, about 60F......

 

[sredz]

How many more degrees higher are you mashing in than your targeted mash temp? For example, if you target a 155 temp for your mash, and you are transferring your strike water over at 175, you probably lose 10-12 degrees in the transfer and as the tun heat up. You're going to lose an additional 5-10 degrees at mash in due to the temp of the grain. So you might need to mash in at 165 to hit 155. And if your water temp has lost more than 10 degrees already after transferring to the MT then you're already behind.

I use Beersmith to help me calculate this based on mash tun temperature and grain temperature. Typically, I will need to dough in about 12-14 degrees over my desired mash temperature. So if I'm trying to hit 148 for example, I would transfer 175 degree water over, let it sit until it drops to about 160 or 162 then mash in to hit 148.

Are you saying your not recirculating? I would think that necessary with the heater or your gonna have a concentrated area by your heater that up to temp and uneven lower temps everywhere else.. Where is the temp probe for the heater? If its near your heater that's likely what's going in (if your not recirculating)

I have not been recirculating throughout the mash. I only recirculate at the end of the mash for about 20 minutes to clarify the wort. If I remember right, I beleive my temperature bumped up a degree when I started recirculating, but then lost a couple more degrees by the end of the 20 minutes. The heating pad is only 60 watts, so it does not throw off an incredible amount of heat.

 

[helibrewer]

My ideal MT would be a dual wall SS without insulation....so I could run hot water through the "jacket" for temp control.....probably only need lower 1/3 jacketed

 

[augiedoggy]

I use Beersmith to help me calculate this based on mash tun temperature and grain temperature. Typically, I will need to dough in about 12-14 degrees over my desired mash temperature. So if I'm trying to hit 148 for example, I would transfer 175 degree water over, let it sit until it drops to about 160 or 162 then mash in to hit 148.




I have not been recirculating throughout the mash. I only recirculate at the end of the mash for about 20 minutes to clarify the wort. If I remember right, I beleive my temperature bumped up a degree when I started recirculating, but then lost a couple more degrees by the end of the 20 minutes. The heating pad is only 60 watts, so it does not throw off an incredible amount of heat.

Thats your issue... you need to recirculate of the temps will never even out ... your temps are jumping around because things are all unven and it takes a while to even out the layers of temps in your mash..

 

[helibrewer]

Here are the issues with recirculating:

1) SS Brewing says you don't need to, with or without their heater
2) You can't recirc without an external heat source, the 60 watt MT heater cannot support the heat loss of recirculating.

So unless you are going to use a RIM's or HERMs system, recirculating only accelerates heat loss. I have always used a RIM's and will just continue to with this MT....I may even add a mash mixer.

 

[geoffey]

Here are the issues with recirculating:



1) SS Brewing says you don't need to, with or without their heater

2) You can't recirc without an external heat source, the 60 watt MT heater cannot support the heat loss of recirculating.



So unless you are going to use a RIM's or HERMs system, recirculating only accelerates heat loss. I have always used a RIM's and will just continue to with this MT....I may even add a mash mixer.

SSBrewtech FAQ says not to recirc with this mashtun unless you do herms or rims because as you say, that heat pad cannot sustain the heat loss of recirculating.

It sounds to me like the MT in question here is missing the insulation or something.

 

[ccfoo242]

I heated up some water to use for cleaning the mash tun and cycled it through. I took some photos with a friend's Flir camera to see where heat losses were:

Here you can see the SS Brewtech mash ton on top. Blichmann 15 gallon pot with boil coil heating the water on the bottom. Heat losses are the silicone tubing (it's the thick walled kind), ball valve, and a little bit where the thermometer is. Lots of heat coming out of the bottom pot, I didn't have a lid.

Close up of the ball valve:

The hard part about getting a thermal image of the mash tun is that it reflects heat. I walked all around it and couldn't find any hot patches. Just reflections of hotter objects in the room. Even around the lid there were no visible hot spots:

Close up of the thermometer area. The thinnest parts leak some heat:

Looking down into Mt. Doom, Frodo doesn't want to let go of the Ring just yet:

Finally, the pump loses heat:

I still haven't brewed with the dang thing. I think once I get my brew stand built and have a more permanent setup I'll probably insulate the tubing.

 

[augiedoggy]

SSBrewtech FAQ says not to recirc with this mashtun unless you do herms or rims because as you say, that heat pad cannot sustain the heat loss of recirculating.

It sounds to me like the MT in question here is missing the insulation or something.

I dont see how the grain stays at even temp with the heating pad at the bottom and no recirculation myself... You would need to constantly stir which would also cause huge temp losses. Otherwise you would have a hotspot down by the heater. Ask people that direct heat their mash tuns, this is why some put them in the oven to maintain temps.
Using a rims or herms makes the whole insulation bit pointless as was discussed in the smaller infussion thread.. Its just more costly more work to clean, redundant and not practical.

Not trying to be negative here but dont you think after paying so much for the insulated kettle and then all the work insulating hoses and such it would have honestly been better to just us a rims or herms? and by that same token if you use a rims or herms there will be no advantage of the insulated mash tun so why spend extra for it and deal this the additional bulk and hassle cleaning it?

In any case the stainless has to be working as a heatsink or the insulation itself may be inferior since from my experience with a regular beverage cooler it holds temps better with no heater or recirculation, and In my opinion SS should have done some engineering to make it work at least as good as a cooler...
Functionality shouldnt have to take a back seat to the cosmetics of stainless.

 

[madscientist451]

Interesting thread and good to see what others are brewing with. After following this and similar threads for years, and sampling beers made with expensive rigs at my brew club, I can't say for sure that a complicated brewing set up really makes better beer. But to each his/her own, Its fun to get new stuff and for some, the challenge of getting everything working right is part if the fun.

Guess I'm just simply a cheapskate, but spending $650 for a mash tun and then having to fuss with it to get it to work right doesn't seem like a good value.
I'm sticking with my cheapo cooler that holds the mash temp within a few degrees while the mash is doing its thing, doesn't recirculate, doesn't need heat and the beer comes out consistently better than the "craft beer" made in million dollar breweries.

 

[augiedoggy]

Interesting thread and good to see what others are brewing with. After following this and similar threads for years, and sampling beers made with expensive rigs at my brew club, I can't say for sure that a complicated brewing set up really makes better beer. But to each his/her own, Its fun to get new stuff and for some, the challenge of getting everything working right is part if the fun.

Guess I'm just simply a cheapskate, but spending $650 for a mash tun and then having to fuss with it to get it to work right doesn't seem like a good value.
I'm sticking with my cheapo cooler that holds the mash temp within a few degrees while the mash is doing its thing, doesn't recirculate, doesn't need heat and the beer comes out consistently better than the "craft beer" made in million dollar breweries.

Coming from someone who is guilty of having and wanting the toys and the joys of engineering a brewery (which is a fun hobby for the aspiring engineer at heart) I have to say I agree with you on this point. Thats pretty much what I was trying to say. For some reason I believe many of the owners of these will choose to see it differently though.. And I understand at that point.

Craft breweries have different motivation though (financial gain) and thats likely why your beers are better. You can make the same beer consistently with better equipment (and consistent mash temps) and thats important for some.

 

[geoffey]

I dont see how the grain stays at even temp with the heating pad at the bottom and no recirculation myself... You would need to constantly stir which would also cause huge temp losses. Otherwise you would have a hotspot down by the heater. Ask people that direct heat their mash tuns, this is why some put them in the oven to maintain temps.
Using a rims or herms makes the whole insulation bit pointless as was discussed in the smaller infussion thread.. Its just more costly more work to clean, redundant and not practical.

Not trying to be negative here but dont you think after paying so much for the insulated kettle and then all the work insulating hoses and such it would have honestly been better to just us a rims or herms? and by that same token if you use a rims or herms there will be no advantage of the insulated mash tun so why spend extra for it and deal this the additional bulk and hassle cleaning it?

In any case the stainless has to be working as a heatsink or the insulation itself may be inferior since from my experience with a regular beverage cooler it holds temps better with no heater or recirculation, and In my opinion SS should have done some engineering to make it work at least as good as a cooler...
Functionality shouldnt have to take a back seat to the cosmetics of stainless.

My guess is that the heater doesn't give off enough heat to make enough of a difference between the top and bottom of the mash. Remember, heat will travel up so there should be some natural convection happening here.

I totally agree on your point here though regarding getting this and using it for rims or herms setups. If that's what's required to maintain temps the. It defeats the purpose of the thing completely. I'm baffled at the reported performance of this (granted that's one user so far) compared to what's been touted by the manufacturer.

 

[augiedoggy]

compared to what's been touted by the manufacturer.

I think you mean marketing distributor . SS brewtech is in California I believe and their different products are made by different manufacturers in china for them. (This is how the bru gear conicals are made by the same people) They may or may not have a hand in drawing up the engineering plans for these (My guess is they do and that why they have good products) Usually after a period of time though, the manufacturers are allowed to implement their engineering advancements in their own products. Which is likely why bru gear was allowed to use the same base conical to improve on and all the other conicals like brewers hardware and glacier sells where exclusive for a while but now available direct form china or other distributors elsewhere. even the smaller stout conicals are available from "moonshiners" store on ebay now, identical in every way.

SS is likely going to continue to make improvements on this product if reviews and sales suffer...

This is the way it works with a lot of "stuff" being sold now

Because SS brewing usually has good quality products everyone keeps choosing to ignore where and who makes it and gives ss full credit. Yet with other products like stout I hear over and over how they are made in china which makes them inferior and stout just sells them however it the same exact scenario in reality.

If I had about 30 grand to start with I would consider ordering a bunch of pallets of gear like this built to my specs, and starting a business selling them as my own too... Many members here have done well with similar ventures..

This is also why I dont believe you always get what you pay for anymore either...

 

[dthompson79]

I thought I would post my experience from last Sunday. Made a best bitter 15 gallon batch. Mashed at a 1.5:1 ratio with a total mash volume of approx 13 gallons. I did not purchase the mash heater. Transferred 10 ish gallons of strike water to the cold tun at 175 degrees. temperature stabilized about 166. I tried waiting for the temp to drop but it was taking too long. Opened her up and stirred to drop the temp. once it fell to 161 I doughed in and hit 151.4 with room temp grain. mashed for an hour in a 38 degree garage. Temp only fell 2 degrees. There was still roughly 8-9 gallons of dead space in the tun so I feel this loss is well within reason. In similar conditions my igloo 10 gallon would lose 3-4 degrees. When I did recirculate at the end of the mash to vorlauf at the end temp fell very quick. but it was inconsequential at this point.

I did buy this with the intention of going to a full electric RIMS system in the future and I do believe the insulation will still hold value at that point for quicker response for any type of step mashing I do.

 

[Sconnie12]

I think you mean marketing distributor . SS brewtech is in California I believe and their different products are made by different manufacturers in china for them. (This is how the bru gear conicals are made by the same people) They may or may not have a hand in drawing up the engineering plans for these (My guess is they do and that why they have good products) Usually after a period of time though, the manufacturers are allowed to implement their engineering advancements in their own products. Which is likely why bru gear was allowed to use the same base conical to improve on and all the other conicals like brewers hardware and glacier sells where exclusive for a while but now available direct form china or other distributors elsewhere. even the smaller stout conicals are available from "moonshiners" store on ebay now, identical in every way.

SS is likely going to continue to make improvements on this product if reviews and sales suffer...

This is the way it works with a lot of "stuff" being sold now

Because SS brewing usually has good quality products everyone keeps choosing to ignore where and who makes it and gives ss full credit. Yet with other products like stout I hear over and over how they are made in china which makes them inferior and stout just sells them however it the same exact scenario in reality.

If I had about 30 grand to start with I would consider ordering a bunch of pallets of gear like this built to my specs, and starting a business selling them as my own too... Many members here have done well with similar ventures..

This is also why I dont believe you always get what you pay for anymore either...

You're an idiot. The things you spew boggle my mind. Starting a business is so easy! I'll just get $30k and call up China. "Hey China send some equipment my way." Ok! Forget any engineering, design work, R&D, marketing, QC, accounting, having a warehouse, shipping, staff, etc, etc, etc, etc. You'd be pumping out the same crap that's on eBay right now. No testing, no QC, no R&D; just a design rushed to market made as cheaply as possible. That's not a business. SS has a business.

Should't have clicked the view post button. Dohhhh :smack::smack::smack:

 

[augiedoggy]

You're an idiot. The things you spew boggle my mind. Starting a business is so easy! I'll just get $30k and call up China. "Hey China send some equipment my way." Ok! Forget any engineering, design work, R&D, marketing, QC, accounting, having a warehouse, shipping, staff, etc, etc, etc, etc. You'd be pumping out the same crap that's on eBay right now. No testing, no QC, no R&D; just a design rushed to market made as cheaply as possible. That's not a business. SS has a business.

Should't have clicked the view post button. Dohhhh :smack::smack::smack:

Not surprising considering most of your posts are negative and to bash people here.. As opinionated and arrogant as I can be your even more pompus.
Which is probably why you despise me so much for some reason.

I'm not an idiot. I have customers at work that have done this. Its done quite a bit... It doesnt cost much to hire an engineer to draw you up some plans and contact a manufacturer in china... and that if you dont chose to just let them design it or market an existing product as your own which happens a lot.
Your exaggerating and over simplifying what I said to try to make your point which makes it even less credible and you less reasonable to converse with...
Perhaps you should find another outlet for you anger management issues..

You dont need a big crew This is one of the reasons SS has no phone number or actual customer service reps.. When i asked them why they didnt have a phone number and the guys was emailing me at 9:30 at night the rep from SS brewtech basically told me just that, They are a tiny operation with low overhead. Im sure they've grown since then.
all you need is some rented warehouse space and a a small crew to box and ship... 30K would be plenty to get things started. There are plenty of businesses that they can contract out the other stuff such as billing and tax paperwork. You place small order's with the manufacturers once you have secured enough orders yourself to help cover costs. which is why many offer preordering on products not yet in stock.

and I think all the complaints about damage and quality issues with this product is an indication that sometimes there isnt really enough quality control... I think the same thing may have happened to stout once they got too many orders to worry about at the time.

I never implied running such a business would be easy. I'm told from others that do this that you have to be vigilant on making sure your products quality doesnt go down hill once they try to cut corners in manufacturing and they almost always do. And some people put a lot of money and time in developing a product... Drawing up a conical or mash tun for home brewing is not one of those complicated undertakings I would say qualifies though. Especially since virtually identical products are already on the market.

 

[augiedoggy]

I thought I would post my experience from last Sunday. Made a best bitter 15 gallon batch. Mashed at a 1.5:1 ratio with a total mash volume of approx 13 gallons. I did not purchase the mash heater. Transferred 10 ish gallons of strike water to the cold tun at 175 degrees. temperature stabilized about 166. I tried waiting for the temp to drop but it was taking too long. Opened her up and stirred to drop the temp. once it fell to 161 I doughed in and hit 151.4 with room temp grain. mashed for an hour in a 38 degree garage. Temp only fell 2 degrees. There was still roughly 8-9 gallons of dead space in the tun so I feel this loss is well within reason. In similar conditions my igloo 10 gallon would lose 3-4 degrees. When I did recirculate at the end of the mash to vorlauf at the end temp fell very quick. but it was inconsequential at this point.

I did buy this with the intention of going to a full electric RIMS system in the future and I do believe the insulation will still hold value at that point for quicker response for any type of step mashing I do.

And I should share that up until this post all that was shared here was multiple complaints of temp issues. My posts and some others were based one that.. Now we have different people claiming different results..
You claim just the opposite of results from both the igloo and this product than anyone here so far.

You also say you think the insulation will have some sort of real effect on your step mash performance with a rims.

Your already appear biased against anything I have to say but.

I can offer my experience here, I had seen no such gain in performance when switching from an insulated mash tun with a rims to an insulated one... nothing I was able to see or measure.. I went from a smaller 10 gallon orange (thicker insulated one) to a larger 16 gallon bayou kettle. Maybe brewing out in 38 degree temps may make a noticeable difference but it didnt for me with my mash tun in front of a window with a fan in it during the winter to expel steam. I went with electric to avoid the extreme temps.

 

[dthompson79]

And I should share that up until this post all that was shared here was multiple complaints of temp issues. My posts and some others were based one that.. Now we have different people claiming different results..
You claim just the opposite of results from both the igloo and this product than anyone here so far.

You also say you think the insulation will have some sort of real effect on your step mash performance with a rims.

Your already appear biased against anything I have to say but.

I can offer my experience here, I had seen no such gain in performance when switching from an insulated mash tun with a rims to an insulated one... nothing I was able to see or measure.. I went from a smaller 10 gallon orange (thicker insulated one) to a larger 16 gallon bayou kettle. Maybe brewing out in 38 degree temps may make a noticeable difference but it didnt for me with my mash tun in front of a window with a fan in it during the winter to expel steam. I went with electric to avoid the extreme temps.

Well I wasn't referencing or disputing anything you said. This was my experience. Though I am biased, I like my shiny new huge mash tun, and the many benefits to me and my current and future set up, I was merely reporting my experience and the numbers I saw. I did not have any of the problems stated in the rest of the thread. I don't know if it was my particular mash tun or my process, but from the numbers I stated I think it did pretty darn good for a single infusion mash. Will it make better beer than the next guy with just a few igloo coolers and a pot with a solid process, likely not. This is my hobby, I like purpose built stainless vessels, pumps, control panels, and taking things to the nth degree. This has gone way past making good beer at an economical price. Maybe I miscalculated in thinking this thread was about telling others your experience with said product. If so I will go elsewhere.

The long and short. This was my experience and I told you the parts of my process I felt were relevant. The numbers don't lie bias or not

 

[augiedoggy]

Well I wasn't referencing or disputing anything you said. This was my experience. Though I am biased, I like my shiny new huge mash tun, and the many benefits to me and my current and future set up, I was merely reporting my experience and the numbers I saw. I did not have any of the problems stated in the rest of the thread. I don't know if it was my particular mash tun or my process, but from the numbers I stated I think it did pretty darn good for a single infusion mash. Will it make better beer than the next guy with just a few igloo coolers and a pot with a solid process, likely not. This is my hobby, I like purpose built stainless vessels, pumps, control panels, and taking things to the nth degree. This has gone way past making good beer at an economical price. Maybe I miscalculated in thinking this thread was about telling others your experience with said product. If so I will go elsewhere.

The long and short. This was my experience and I told you the parts of my process I felt were relevant. The numbers don't lie bias or not

No, its not about my experience... I shared that because I felt that it may be beneficial to you to know I have done what you plan to do to improve your step mashing ability. That being use an insulated Mashtun with a rims, and as you say "the numbers dont lie"

I have to say though just as you are taking my experience with a grain of salt, So am I with your comments. Being that you had such poor performance of a cooler yet claim the stainless cooler works so much better (which is the opposite of a couple others here as well as my cooler experience) coupled with your "like" on the childish insults above... It almost seems that because of your bias here, you are going to "see" the opposite of what you think I would expect anyway just to argue what you want to believe.. because you think I'm against you and your choice in some way? The truth is i just feel the product should hold its own and hold mash temps at least as good as a cooler and that wasnt what the earlier feedback on two different threads has been saying up until your post.

The fact that the other owners of these things should also be positively biased in favor of them are seeing different results and not all positive makes them more credible and realistic to me. This of course is just how it looks to me and yes it may not be true... But one person seeing 4 degree or more temp loss in a room temperature room vs you stating that unlike the cooler you used before your superior stainless cooler holds temps great in a near freezing 38 degree room? Somethings missing here or someone is not reporting the facts as far as it looks to me..

The fact that you joined this forum today just to argue this point also makes me question things.. Honestly, for all anyone knows you could work for Brewtech yourself right?

 

[dthompson79]

No, its not about my experience... I shared that because I felt that it may be beneficial to you to know I have done what you plan to do to improve your step mashing ability. That being use an insulated Mashtun with a rims, and as you say "the numbers dont lie"

I have to say though just as you are taking my experience with a grain of salt, Being that you had such poor performance of a cooler yet claim the stainless cooler works so much better (which is the opposite of a couple others here as well as my cooler experience) coupled with your "like" on the childish insults above... It almost seems that because of your bias here, you are going to "see" the opposite of what you think I would expect anyway just to argue what you want to believe.. because you think I'm against you and your choice in some way? The truth is i just feel the product should hold its own and hold mash temps at least as good as a cooler and that wasnt what the earlier feedback on two different threads has been saying up until your post.

The fact that the other owners of these things should also be positively biased in favor of them are seeing different results and not all positive makes them more credible and realistic to me. This of course is just how it looks to me and yes it may not be true... But one person seeing 4 degree or more temp loss in a room temperature room vs you stating that unlike the cooler you used before your superior stainless cooler holds temps great in a near freezing 38 degree room? Somethings missing here or someone is not reporting the facts as far as it looks to me..

I didn't address your reference to the step mashing because I am not there yet. So I can't speak to that. I wouldn't say you are wrong when I have no experience there. Entropy says it will make a difference, but i may be negligible. FWIW thanks for the input.

As far as the like. The statement struck me as funny so I liked it. I have a weird (childish) sense of humor. nothing more nothing less

It may be a quality issue with the other posters mash tuns. Though I hope not. I do like the brand and want to see them do well. I actually went into the brewday with guarded expectations because of what I had read on this forum. I did notice that the stainless initially acts as a big heat sink until it reaches equilibrium (20 minutes in my case) Though RIMS would negate this effect

The comparison to the igloo was at similar temps and going from memory of last winter, It really isn't a fair comparison seeing as no drink cooler mash tun I have seen insulates their lids.

Maybe I had better luck because of my batch size, and higher water to grain ratio. I could definitely see a mash tun not performing well if the thermal mass wasn't high enough relative to the volume of the tun.

BTW sweet set up. I have lurked on here for a while and yours has given me a few ideas.

Cheers!!

 

[dthompson79]

Just to show, at least in part I didn't make this up and am really a sleeper agent for brewtech, here is a brewday pic. I know it doesn't prove anything or confirm my claims. All temps were verified with the green thermapen you see by the tun. Look at the relative fill level in the manometer. If i had to guess the other users had smaller grain bills and therefore lower thermal mass. I can see how that could effect the temp loss greatly. I did a 5g batch of a mild (roughly 7 lbs) in my ten gallon cooler and saw similar temp loss as others are stating. It is all about relative surface area, thermal mass, and dead space in the tun.

Though I do agree that the MTSS should be able to mitigate any loss regardless of these factors.

Another thing I have the recirculation manifold and I didn't recirc for a sec before i attached it to get rid of the initial grain that makes it through the false bottom and it promptly clogged the manifold. So don't do that

 

[augiedoggy]

For the record I have nothing against them or anyone else who imports good to sell..Ive dealt with them and the conicals I ordered for my friend are great! Personally I think for the money they should include all sanitary fittings but hey I dont know how much these are costing them to be made either so.. If there are issues with these I am sure they will make every effort to sort them out because that seems to be why they are excelling in this market.

I just meant to point out that there products are made to order for them and not by them since so many think otherwise for some reason and got carried away I guess.

 

[sredz]

Just to show, at least in part I didn't make this up and am really a sleeper agent for brewtech, here is a brewday pic. I know it doesn't prove anything or confirm my claims. All temps were verified with the green thermapen you see by the tun. Look at the relative fill level in the manometer. If i had to guess the other users had smaller grain bills and therefore lower thermal mass. I can see how that could effect the temp loss greatly. I did a 5g batch of a mild (roughly 7 lbs) in my ten gallon cooler and saw similar temp loss as others are stating. It is all about relative surface area, thermal mass, and dead space in the tun.

Though I do agree that the MTSS should be able to mitigate any loss regardless of these factors.

Another thing I have the recirculation manifold and I didn't recirc for a sec before i attached it to get rid of the initial grain that makes it through the false bottom and it promptly clogged the manifold. So don't do that

Thank you for posting your results! I suspect having a larger mass of grist makes a difference. I will be brewing again this weekend and making a couple of adjustments to try and better minimize my heat loss. Will report back on how it goes.

 

[dthompson79]

So, if the headspace is the issue. What always worked for me using a cooler was to put foil as a radiant barrier on top of the mash. I have also seen reflectix or foil wrapped foam board as a radiant barrier, though I don't have experience with the latter methods

Just spitballing here


edit: verbiage

 

[Ianflean]

Hi all,

Just got this delivered here in Europe. Can echo the tilt of the tap and issue with the false bottom.

It says to wash with Tri Sodium Phosphate before first use. I've looked around and i can't find it at the normal places. Any suggestions on similar cleaning agents I can use instead?

Cheers!

 

[augiedoggy]

Hi all,

Just got this delivered here in Europe. Can echo the tilt of the tap and issue with the false bottom.

It says to wash with Tri Sodium Phosphate before first use. I've looked around and i can't find it at the normal places. Any suggestions on similar cleaning agents I can use instead?

Cheers!

Any non abrasive stainless cleaning agent? I would google for one myself..
bar keepers friend works but you cant use it near the etched markings.

 

[crooow]

I'm thinking of getting this thing. Are people still having problems with maintaining temps and/or build quality?

 

[sredz]

I'm thinking of getting this thing. Are people still having problems with maintaining temps and/or build quality?

I have been able to get more stable temps by mashing in with a slightly greater volume of water and also insulating around the temp probe and recirculation valve. My last batch held temps within 1 degree. It's a big mash tun and I've found minimizing head space is key for holding temps. Here' s picture of the probe insulation, it seemed to be losing a fair amount of heat in this area.

 

[dthompson79]

Currently 5 batches in on mine. Always held within .2-1 degree fahrenheit. I do 10 gallon batches so it has always been at least half full and as much as 3/4 full in garage temps. roughly 30-65 degrees. I believe that headspace is the issue. Same is if you took a 10 gallon igloo and tried to do a 5 gallon batch of mild. i.e. mostly empty. I would say if you do 5 gallon batches get the 10 gallon model unless all you do is old ales, barleywines, Russian Imperials

 

[crooow]

Currently 5 batches in on mine. Always held within .2-1 degree fahrenheit. I do 10 gallon batches so it has always been at least half full and as much as 3/4 full in garage temps. roughly 30-65 degrees. I believe that headspace is the issue. Same is if you took a 10 gallon igloo and tried to do a 5 gallon batch of mild. i.e. mostly empty. I would say if you do 5 gallon batches get the 10 gallon model unless all you do is old ales, barleywines, Russian Imperials

This is really useful to know. I mostly do 5 gallon batches, but I occasionally do a 10. I wanted the 20 gallon because it has the recirculation port, but obviously, if I'm going to lose temps on it, it's not worth it. Thanks.