2 x 2 16 gauge - OK for 15+ gallons?

[sandyeggoxj]

Generally your adjustments are Voltage (the obvious one) and Amperage (known as WFS on a mig/FCAW). The thing is you can't just add amperage, wire feed speed, without the appropriate voltage.

Look inside the door of the wire wheel and find the settings for your material. That should be pretty damn close to what you need.

I would highly recommend cutting all your scraps up and practice welding all the joints you are going to have before you get to the real deal. Do it until you are happy.

 

[user 246304]

On the wire feed, that intuitively seemed weird to me but yep, that's what he said. I don't get it, but I'm not surprised. I have enough coupon material to mess with parameters, so my thought is to keep one parameter set and monkey with the other, then reverse - fix the other and change the other....? One thing I got was guidance from Miller's site - thanks on the idea. They don't have the exact thickness, my metal is 5/64 and the closest they have is 3/32, but seems like a good guide. For .035" flux core (what I'm using), they offer 145-155 ipm, 110-125 amps, and 14-15 volts.

Problem I'm having, for this machine, is nothing in the manual nor so far, what I can find elsewhere, correlates the wire speed or voltage setting (1-4) with their respective actual speed or voltage. Am I right in thinking that's how MIG works, they don't usually just say "150 ipm = dial setting 6", etc.? Any thoughts on a machine with 0-10 wire speed, and 1-4 voltage settings?

 

[ancientmariner52]

Good plan for practice welds. No way to figure what the numbers on your machine actually mean. The only use for them is, once you find the sweet spots, you can repeat the setting in the future. If you still want to weld after all this.

 

[Dog House Brew]

As you look at your weld, if it is building up, turn up the heat. If it is spattering like mad, slow down your wire. Remember your not just using the wire to glue it together. The metal has to get molten enough to flow and mix with your wire to an extent. I would rather you blow a hole in your test metal and turn the heat down, than stack it up with no penetration. When you get the setting right you should hear a steady sizzle, like and egg frying. When you find a place w the right electric and get it set up, run some beads and take some pics. People here can help you get it right.

 

[day_trippr]

That pile of blobs would tell me you need to up the power at least and get a decent puddle going.
Keep the stickout short, up the power without changing the wire speed and see which direction you move.
btw, are you running solid wire with gas or flux core without? Not sure what you settled on...

Cheers!

 

[Dog House Brew]

He is running flux/no gas

 

[day_trippr]

So that plastic tube has been foresaken?

I'll confess I've never tried flux core on my MIG, started out with 25%/75% gas and never looked back.
But I don't think that matters wrt the basics of getting a puddle going and dragging/pushing it around.
Wire speed and temperature might be slightly different for optimal penetration but we're looking at Ground Zero right now...

Cheers!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

What machine do you have?

 

[day_trippr]

Moi? The predecessor to the current Lincoln PowerMIG 180C.
Same machine, updated marketing brochure. Mine is ~5 years old.
Love it, it's a pleasure to use a metal squirt gun that's so easy to dial in...

Cheers!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Sorry I was asking the OP. @Gadjobrinus What machine do you have?

 

[Dog House Brew]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0008JHB5A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

This welder

 

[user 246304]

Hey guys,

My son's 17th last night (not at all ready for him to be 18!). Thank you for your incredible help! My worthless memory, I'll have to work to incorporate some of your suggestions in to practice as I truly suck (see below). Angles, distance, etc. I believe I have the parameters going pretty well - perhaps you'll have some thoughts. I monkeyed around with both wire speed and voltage, isolating variables, then finally found with the wire speed fixed where it was and voltage goosed all the way up, I think I'm getting good penetration without burn throughs or other issues of overheating. If that's correct, from what you see, and the machine is now good, I need to work on a lot of technique because I'm getting a lot of rough fits and starts in the arc as I travel, and it seems to be cleaned up better as I change angle. Interestingly, Clarke recommends 45 Deg., where I've seen a usual 5-15 deg. from the surface - right? Well I found as I became more oblique relative to the surface, the arc tended to clean up and I got that nice, even, bacon sizzle. But I don't know if that was it.

Where the start is in the wrong place, yeah, I was blind. There's a lot of stops midway because the circuit blew (I thought I'd resolved it - was able to get some run time switching to another circuit. But I need a 20 amp breaker, I think).

My helmet is nominally 10, but I have to say, I'm absolutely blind. Is that just me, not used to this? I try to freeze in place while I drop my helmet but inevitably I can't see anything whatsoever and have to start an arc, and equally inevitably, it's somewhere in foreign territory and I have to come back to the joint - which I can't see well anyway, nearly blind, despite the arc. Is this me, practice, etc., or would you suggest dropping down to a 9 or even 8?

Anyway, as embarrassing as they are, some just finished work after settling on this parameter. Very grateful guys, learning alot.

Oh, forgot. Tried to destroy the T and it held strong, despite being unfinished. So that's encouraging, again I think, in that I'll probably get a working frame out of this regardless of my ineptitude.

(ugh..prettyy bad, enlarged like this).

 

[sandyeggoxj]

try putting a real bright light on the work area. Should allow you to see your start a little better and might help during the weld too.

#10 isn't too dark. I only go that light when I'm Tigging small gauge stuff. I can adjust because I have an auto hood but still, darker is nicer for the eyes. Less strain.

 

[user 246304]

OK, thanks, Sandy. I didn't know if added light would somehow make things worse, glare. But I have a strong work light downstairs, on my (former) reloading table.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Not too bad, considering. Being in a comfortable position helps. I bet you are holding your breath, also. Gotta relax to get smooth results.

If this is a 120v machine, you may need a heavy duty extention cord. I had breaker trouble with my 120v plasma cutter until I got a 20 amp cord.

 

[user 246304]

Excellent, ancient, I'm almost positive you nailed it. I'll watch to see if I'm holding breath, tense, etc.

I have a table, a long one, but it's not a wood top - whatever that fake wood skin is. I'd thought to use that as a work surface but I'm almost positive that's unsuitable - ? So I'm on the ground, using other scrap 2 x 2, so far, as supports to work. And my body, being in pretty bad shape, isn't a fan. So I'm positive I'm tensing up everywhere.

And thanks too on the extension chord. I don't know the amp rating on the chord but the machine is a 120v and the chord is 16 gauge, I believe? It might be a 14 gauge, have to look at it. But either way, I see that is way inadequate. Maybe a 12, or 10, from HD?

 

[ancientmariner52]

I just took a look at my cord, it's 12AWG. I don't recall where I bought it, but HD or Lowe's should have them.

I hear you about the body issues. If I get on the ground, I have to crawl to a tree to hoist myself back up. You might consider a pair of folding sawhorses and an adjustable stool to get yourself off of the ground. Your table would probably be ok, as long as you don't mind lots of little pits from spatter.

I'm heading for a mountain top to watch the meteor shower, so that's all from me tonight. Good luck!

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I screwed a sheet of 14 gauge steel to an unfinished solid wood door and set it across saw horses when I fab'ed my frame.
Made for a nice level surface to set up angles using mag braces.

It was an investment for sure - and a heavy one at that - but it sure made things easy...

Cheers!

 

[user 246304]

I just took a look at my cord, it's 12AWG. I don't recall where I bought it, but HD or Lowe's should have them.

I hear you about the body issues. If I get on the ground, I have to crawl to a tree to hoist myself back up. You might consider a pair of folding sawhorses and an adjustable stool to get yourself off of the ground. Your table would probably be ok, as long as you don't mind lots of little pits from spatter.

I'm heading for a mountain top to watch the meteor shower, so that's all from me tonight. Good luck!

I'm sorry you have to suffer with that, ancient. I hope whatever regime you've got going helps you.

Thanks on the cord (I just realize I typed "chord" above....yeah, used to play gypsy swing alot I guess.... lol). Yep in looking through HD (we don't have Lowe's anywhere near us, which bums me out a bit as it's an option), they have a ton of 12 AWG. Great thought, thanks. Mountain top viewing - sounds awesome!

 

[user 246304]

fwiw, I screwed a sheet of 14 gauge steel to an unfinished solid wood door and set it across saw horses when I fab'ed my frame.
Made for a nice level surface to set up angles using mag braces.

View attachment 549704

It was an investment for sure - and a heavy one at that - but it sure made things easy...

Cheers!

Thanks trippr. As usual, you present such an elegant solution. That is a great one to tuck in for down the road, if I want to continue welding. Afraid for now, I'm at the end of my "preparing" stage and just really needing to build this thing before I go bonkers, you know? I'm hoping to get a imperial stout in for conditioning to give to my friends in this neighborhood, most of whom are dark ale fans. I'd love to give it to them by early next month and I need to brew, man, lol!

Your angle cube is seriously cool. But if I were to be totally honest, the first thought that came to mind is how much it would show me what a loser I was in using the abrasive saw, lol. I have to go back on the two top-tier side pieces and re-miter them by a hair, as it turns out. Help me, brother, wave a wand and let this cutting and welding be done, so I can smell some mash again!

Oh, forgot to mention, ancient (and trippr), dumb of me to forget something so simple, but the table in the garage is just a folding laminate table (in excellent shape - flat). Aesthetically, couldn't care less what happens to it; so long as nothing poisons the weld or metal surface in upcoming welds. Just confirming - OK?

One thing in re-watching the Weldfever flux-core video: this globular buildup. He seems to fly, relative to how fast I'm going. Is it possible I'm just going too slow? That if I pull the voltage back to "3" out of 4 but up the wire speed and travel faster, I can achieve good penetration but a cleaner bead?

-and sandy, sorry, I think it was you. But I do have the Mig Welding Tips and Tricks and going through those. Thanks for directing me there. Maybe before I hit the machine again I get this stuff down better.

 

[user 246304]

OK, learned a couple things from Jody at Welding Tips and Tricks.com, as well as from a search on the web and wonder if you guys might offer a thought on this. First of all, the company recommends starting with a WFS of 6/10, then adjusting. For my metal's thickness, they'd recommend a voltage setting of 3/4 on the machine.

Now, taking Jamie's way, which sounds great to me, if I go with the WFS based on metal thickness (.078) and amps needed, that gives me 78 amps, and with .035 wire and burnoff rate of 1.6, that gives me about 125 ipm needed.

I haven't yet found what the max WFS is on the machine. Whether it's 700 ipm, or 800 ipm, using this 125 ipm need, that brings me way down below a starting speed of 6. Assuming the machine tops out at 700, that's a setting of 1.8/10 ipm, and if 800, about 1.6.

If I start this low, am I not in danger of possibly welding back to the tip?

These parameters are much lower than I was playing at. It did occur to me - man, maxing the voltage up to 4 and going into 6-7 out of 10 on speed; isn't that just a bit nuts, given I'm only on 14 gauge, not even 11 gauge tubing? So I may have been going in the wrong direction - so try maybe recommended voltage 3/4, but pull speed back to 2.5/10 or so?

Oh - something else I learned. This machine is old, and there's a good amount of rusting in the guide tube, other internal parts. The 10# flux core wire is itself sort of lightly streaked with rusting. The ground clamp is not in great shape though I presume contact is copper, right (it's outside, and I need to look again tomorrow to check its condition), so whatever rusting is happening elsewhere on the clamp isn't really an issue? And after today's session, the nozzle and tip are both looking pretty ugly. I also didn't know any better when replacing and tightening both the wire wheel knob, and the tension knob. So I may have under or overtightened either or both, when re-feeding wire prepping today.

Now that I have learned this from Jody - it seems like many of these things can result in a pretty crappy weld, right? Fits and starts, even if everything else is set great, they can cause these little time-gap misses that can make for a bad bead? Suggestions?

Finally, duty cycle. Knowing what it might be (e.g., 20% at 100 amps. Just example), how do you guys deal with that in terms of welding and resting time - this is manual, right? You weld a bead, keeping in mind about how long you've been running, and then rest it according to the cycle?

Thanks. Jamie's vids are great, thanks again, sandy.

Edit: "Jody" not "Jamie."

 

[sandyeggoxj]

If you overheat then it will shut off. HAHA. Just try to keep in mind how long two minutes of welding in a 10 min period. I've had to deal with it on small welders and I've overheated them as well. It happens but it isn't great for the machine.

On the settings I'd start with the 3/4 and 6/10 settings and run some test beads and show us the pictures. Those are pretty close to what you want I'd bet. I have actual readouts on my MIG so I can see real welding voltage and WFS. If I use the machine settings from the chart it welds way better than the "calculators" that you find online or slide charts.

 

[ancientmariner52]

I'm just speculating here, but would a light gauge power cord affect welder output? As if feeding an engine with a too-small fuel line?

 

[sandyeggoxj]

It would have a higher resistance which would lower input voltage and lower the welder performance. So, yes.

 

[user 246304]

OK, thanks guys. I grew impatient (dumb) and started in on the frame itself. I dropped the speed down to 3/10, so everything was 3 - 3/10, 3/4.

Here's the weird thing - I was getting better beads. Stickout was very small, and I have the tip actually protruding just a hair, per Jody/Mig Welding Tips and Tricks. I'm pretty frustrated that at one point, near the end for some weird reason, I got burnthrough in fact, on the - what do you call them, just T joint, the joints next to the fillet joints?

I watched Jody and saw that a simple drag actually got a slightly better weld than any circular technique, etc. I don't need a stack of dimes, just want to have this thing strong, and done, so I can begin brewing. Truly bummed about the burn through and I'm afraid I already know the answer - but it seems the rest of the welding is sufficient. Can I ignore that, and keep it?

 

[Dog House Brew]

Burn through is no big deal. At least you know your getting penetration. I would just go to your hole and use the gun like a spot weld and fill it.
You should not have to be doing any weave or circle stuff. I would just do a simple drag and pause, drag and pause. When I say pause, I mean a fraction of a second. It will keep you from dragging too fast and stacking up your weld.
.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

You done good, with burn through, on a 110 volt Mig, with a suspect supply circuit!

 

[user 246304]

OK, awesome, thanks so much guys. I have to admit, just doing this simple little bit, it's got me wanting one of my own. Lots of "necessary" builds ahead!

 

[user 246304]

Hey all -

Been AWOL while I work on this, and I'm afraid to say I don't believe it's going well at all. It's funny, because I don't recall having this much trouble the last time (20 years ago, lol), unless I was just clueless as to accepting what would be unacceptably weak welds then, and I was just lucky.

You've all been extremely helpful in this thread, and I know especially without pics (I hope to post some), you can't do much more. I am grateful but I'm feeling like I blew it, and given the ease with which FCAW is to dive in and do, I feel like a rube.

I continue to get issues with burnthrough whenever doing a tee joint. I have tried to increase stickout and lower heat, and it's still almost bankable that I hear that "air tube" and sure enough, a hole or many. I'm sure this is wrong, but I've allowed to cool, and tried to just overlay more wire, weaving to get it to fill in. Often, it just makes the hole worse. Dog House, I know you mentioned treating it like a spot weld and I probably shouldn't have been too embarrassed to ask. I've got a lot of tee joints with undercutting and burnthroughs.

Fillets don't have this problem. Despite bringing light down to bear, I still can't see well and often get a start by sticking the wire in the joint, pulling back a measure, bringing helmet down (not at all happy with this HD helmet, but I'm in at this point), and giving it a whirl. Sometimes OK, sometimes it looks like cold lapping on the bottom member, with little inclusion on the upper member, and nowhere near the proper looking bead I had even on day 1. I don't get why I'm having such an issue with burnthrough on the Tee Joint, and having an issue - I think - with a good, strong bead on the fillets. I even have resorted to minor circling to try and draw the puddle up more on the vertical member. Basically, I still can't see. I won't do it at this point, one because it feels like the kind of thing of "it worked forever, without needing it," but Jody on the website strongly urges getting an auto-darkening helmet from Northern Tools, for currently $60. "Ensures good starts," and right now, it feels like this noob could use all the help he can get. Anyway, worse welding than on Day 1, and I can't figure it out.

Finally, though I've tried to tack diligently and watch for heat distortion effects, whatever they're called, I've...blown that one, too. Horizontal vessel supports, struts, for instance, that "rest" on the rear horizontal member, are off by as much as, 3/8" or so I'd say, so that rear support is useless in terms of supporting vessels. I'd thought to try and clamp the crap out of everything when I finish all main parts, assembling them together (meaning, forcing any misaligned parts by mere clamping and welding, if possible) but then I'd imagine all I have are - what would it be called, internal stresses? - so that's a further weakening.

Anyway, pretty frustrated with myself because I honestly feel like my rig of 20 years ago was a better rig, with 1 x 1, and I knew literally nothing then. I don't get why this one blows as much as it does, unless it's some combination of my body (pretty messed up by end of day - pain:tension:bad welding?), vision less than it once was....but I know that's probably b.s., since I know alot of you are pros who continue to weld, though I might be many years your junior.

Sounds like excuses reading it, but just half tempted to keep this all for scrap, buy another 3 x 24', and try again, as an expensive lesson. The other half says forget it, pay a welder, and learn for next time via a course (found out our local tech has definitely changed policy, and all classes are open to outside students not in the pro track program). I'm not sure this rig is safe, though at 20 gallons it's little more than my previous 1/2 bbl keggle system.

Thanks for reading a rant, I guess I'd call it, and for all your generous help, guys.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Grind your welds and put your support back on. You have to use a small tack on one side in the middle. Go to the other side and tack on each side. When the weld cools it will draw you support and get it out of wack. Your tacks on the other side will draw it back straight.
You should be able to tack w/o being able to see. I usually hold my gun right where I want it, close eyes, pull the trigger for about a second, let off. On your Tee joint problem. Why run a bead? You can just get it all tacked, and repeat tack welding it in a line. Your getting it too hot when running your bead. Why not just put the gun right where you want it and put a nice tack weld, and repeat?