2 x 2 16 gauge - OK for 15+ gallons?

[user 246304]

Thanks for all your help, and thanks for your sharing your story as well, Dog House. In isolation, one can feel like a bit of a dumba$$ (or, one is just a dumba$$, lol); it helps to know even you experienced guys had to learn at some point.

Thanks again. Frustrating waiting out this cold, but what are you gonna do?

 

[user 125772]

I recon building your first brew stand is a lot like broken bones.
...hard to imagine surviving the first one ... course after you've had one, it was no big deal.
Keep plugging Paul, and happy new year.

 

[user 246304]

Thanks buddy. Supports came off relatively easy as it turns out, with the recip and bimetal. Had to find the right technique to start getting some grab. Ground down smooth and the remaining side member is rough-cut (the chop saw isn't great on giving a true 45 deg., so I cut large and grind down). Still sub-zero, so pretty brutal but I wore my old hunting base layer and was pretty much good to go, lol. I think it's going to go fast from here (I shouldn't say that), just won't be pretty with the miss on heat distortions and tacking, etc. She'll work. Christened Ugly Betty II.

Thanks for everything and again for the support. And best of years to you too, Sleepy.

 

[Dog House Brew]

Show off some pictures of Ol’ Betty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

 

[user 246304]

Show off some pictures of Ol’ Betty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

Hahahah, well man, afraid you've busted me, buddy. I'm EMBARRASSED to show her to you master craftsman, lol!!

OK, I'll try to snap a shot and show...er, her...to y'all. I suspect by all my protests so far, you guys probably know how much I want to be done with this phase, and be starting with that other phase, and I count brewing and drinking as one phase, btw...!

I'll try to get a couple shots that show this but it seems there's kind of a line of warping on a diagonal, for some reason - if you rock it, you can rock the left front leg or rear right leg up. If I shim the rear right up, the rig itself is level, but then that side member is ridiculously lifted. And I re-measured to make sure I didn't do something truly stupid (the build itself has just been, "significantly stupid") and mis-measure the leg. All verticals result in 2' length, so it's not mis-measured/mis-cut.

I just thing it's badly warped because I'd forgotten what happens along a long beam when welding, if you don't do it right. Can you cold-clamp with a pipe clamp, something like that, to true something like this? Or do you have to heat it? Or, after seeing this - like you said, Stealth, no pretense to doing this even halfway right! - just go and brew?

I'm writing too much and posting too few pics, sorry. I'll get a couple up in an hour or two and hope they show what I mean. Much appreciated guys. Still brutally cold here so I hope everyone is well and warm.

 

[user 246304]

Temps and light dropping, prudence said, get on it, lol. Hope these give something. Be kind...!

Looking at it again, at the first tier (not really featured here - lower level; you can see it in the last pic below), there's a lot I really blew it on. Next time....or maybe this time, as it's kind of driving me nuts to even brew on this, if I can....all cutting, grinding, jigging, first; making sure the thing fits and looks perfect before ever getting to a weld, and then, the entire thing tacked. All this perfect before one bead laid down.
I obviously didn't do that this time.

Anyway, the far member is the one I'm talking about (it's not yet tacked - I am waiting to possibly recut or try another way in). That vertical leg is the right length, and welded at the same level as elsewhere, but it's lifted way out of whack, which you can see.

 

[Dog House Brew]

So it looks like your miter is too long no?
You could have picked a little more difficult and intricate stand to build, lol!! I think it looks pretty freaking good. I was expecting ugly Betty to be like FUGLY Betty. Looks like an easy fix to me. Nice job so far IMO.

 

[user 246304]

So it looks like your miter is too long no?
You could have picked a little more difficult and intricate stand to build, lol!! I think it looks pretty freaking good. I was expecting ugly Betty to be like FUGLY Betty. Looks like an easy fix to me. Nice job so far IMO.

Wow, I was girding up for all the laughing to die down first, didn't expect this, Dog House. Very kind and many thanks man.

The miter is definitely toast, I'll have to cut another one. It wasn't fitting well initially and I went gonzo with the grinder, not even sure what I was thinking at the time, anymore, lol.

I'll just do what I can to make this thing work, and I'm really grateful to you and to everyone else as there's no way I could have done even this without all your help. Cheers guys. I'll post something of it when it's done. And I promise, well, almost promise, it won't be this:

 

[user 246304]

Hey guys, I indicated I'd post some pics once it's completed but I realized I have an additional question. I'm going to mount the heat shield with screws, but the pump mounts I have come from BrewersHardware, are stainless and are much thicker than the heat shield so my guess is that screwing them on the frame is probably not going to work. Right?

Just wondering how I'd weld them on, when I don't have gas shielding (flux core only), and we've got mixed stainless on mild. Probably not possible? Any suggestions?

BTW, primary welding of frame is completed and I'm pleased to report I survived, as did the frame. It has this "twist" warp in it but I was able to get the second and final miter set filed and set together well enough, and we're on. I'm just going to shim for now, and improve it over time. I put one of my Spike vessels on each area and everything checks out really well, vessel is seated, steady, and level, with the exception of that far miter/side member, which is a very minor issue, functionally, a non-issue I think.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Glad to hear things are going your way. I tried to find the pump mounts you mention but came up empty. Why does being thicker prevent you from screwing them to the frame?

 

[user 246304]

Glad to hear things are going your way. I tried to find the pump mounts you mention but came up empty. Why does being thicker prevent you from screwing them to the frame?

Hey ancient, thanks for such a quick reply and for the good wishes. The mounts are here, but it looks like they don't have pics up, can't recall if they ever did. In addition to the 4 pump mounting holes, there's a fairly large hole at one end, and I don't know what it's used for. Perhaps the March? Can't see the purpose on my Chuggers, at any rate.

On screwing, just betraying my ignorance it seems. Totally unaware you can use sheetmetal screws to join two pieces of metal like this - only because the heat shields are fairly thin, so I presumed with the mounts, it's too thick. Good to know, many thanks. Dumb question but I presume this also means flux-core like I'm using, for stainless, is a non-starter, right?

Oh, and my drills are both corded and cheap, no great way to slow them down/torque either one up. Is that a requirement for doing this (never used self-tapping screws before)?

Thanks again.

Edit: This image is pretty close, just imagine maybe a 3/8" hole between 2 corner mounting holes at either end.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Well, if you can't slow the drill down, just be sure not to run the screw tight under power, it'll snap off 9 times out of 10. You'll have to drill oversize holes through the mounting plate, then use the plate as a guide to drill the screw holes. When the threads catch, tighten the screws with hand tools.

With a high speed drill, you'll want to drill in short bursts, giving the bit plenty of time to cool. Easy to do, hard to describe. Just experiment on scrap.

Will the screw heads interfere with the pump? You might need to countersink the holes and use flat head screws.

It's late, and I'm sort of wandering here. Hope this is helpful.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Just remembered I have an unmounted Chugger on hand. Does yours have the square opening in the base? If so, locate your screw heads there. If not, you can use stacks of washers under the corners to raise the base clear of the screws. Probably easier than countersinking and using flatheads.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

On a pump mount like that you could still weld it from the bottom with your fluxcore. It wouldn't be stainless right in the weld zone but that would be okay.

 

[user 246304]

Well, if you can't slow the drill down, just be sure not to run the screw tight under power, it'll snap off 9 times out of 10. You'll have to drill oversize holes through the mounting plate, then use the plate as a guide to drill the screw holes. When the threads catch, tighten the screws with hand tools.

With a high speed drill, you'll want to drill in short bursts, giving the bit plenty of time to cool. Easy to do, hard to describe. Just experiment on scrap.

Will the screw heads interfere with the pump? You might need to countersink the holes and use flat head screws.

It's late, and I'm sort of wandering here. Hope this is helpful.

It is helpful, thanks very much ancient. And yep, the base of the pump raises it clear of the mount screws, I believe.

 

[user 246304]

On a pump mount like that you could still weld it from the bottom with your fluxcore. It wouldn't be stainless right in the weld zone but that would be okay.

Hey Sandy, thanks for coming in. And sorry to have to say, I'm a welding idiot.

Can you tell me what you mean by welding it from the bottom? Do you mean, vertical welds, dragging upwards? And I'm sorry, but I do want to learn more (even though the job is ugly, I learned a lot and am very interested in learning more - my friend said "just hold on to the mig till whenever, spring's fine, etc.". So can you talk a bit more about the stainless in the weld zone idea? Do you mean, I'll basically just be joining with filler and mild?

 

[sandyeggoxj]

If you lay that plate on the square tube and weld the bottom side that you can't see from the top then you have a flat area to bolt the pump.

All I was saying is that when you weld stainless to mild you lose the stainless nature in the weld area. But that isn't a real concern since it isn't in a "food grade" area.

 

[user 246304]

If you lay that plate on the square tube and weld the bottom side that you can't see from the top then you have a flat area to bolt the pump.

All I was saying is that when you weld stainless to mild you lose the stainless nature in the weld area. But that isn't a real concern since it isn't in a "food grade" area.

OK, many thanks, Sandy. I don't know if this is an easy answer and it's a rider to this question, but while I find I'm getting there on fillet welds, in any position, my welds - don't know what they're formally called - where an open end is joined to a cross member along it's length, I almost never can avoid burnthrough. I've tried increasing stickout, crossing back and forth and moving quicker, not much help. Also, discovered when I was laying them down with full welds, the ends of the vessel supports lay across a horizontal member. I'd have thought this was an easy weld as the fit is tight, at least visually. But it seemed almost no matter what angle I was shooting, I'd get cold lapping along the horizontal member and the vessel support section would look virtually untouched....?

Don't trouble yourself Sandy, or guys, on these things, if it's a bother. I'm fine with as ugly as she is as I do think she's safe and functional. I'll research over time but I find it curious.

 

[user 246304]

OK, well, this one I do want to bother you guys on, lol.

I think I've decided to either tack or stick weld the pump mounts. They're actually 11 gauge ss, whereas the frame is 14 gauge mild, and given my inexperience, never mixed metals (dealt with above - thanks), much less thicknesses, so any guidance would be much appreciated. I don't have any great means to drill through these to do a self-drilled screw mount. I will be doing the screw mounts for the heat shield.

Now: It's still cold here, though like spring compared to last week. Talking coatings. Just a quick and dirty:

1. Powder, hired out
2. Hi-Temp paint (can you even do this in cold weather?)
3. iron oxide, because I want like crazy to get going brewing.

Thoughts? Oh, did I say I'd pay off anyone who provides a cogent defense of option (3)?

 

[ancientmariner52]

A few weeks ago I hiked out to an 1898 steel railroad bridge. They leave 'em out in the weather, ya know.

120 years old, not a lick of paint, carries heavy freight and passenger excursions every day. Iron oxide is fine with me. Just call it organic.

 

[user 246304]

A few weeks ago I hiked out to an 1898 steel railroad bridge. They leave 'em out in the weather, ya know.

120 years old, not a lick of paint, carries heavy freight and passenger excursions every day. Iron oxide is fine with me. Just call it organic.

Ha! That's a testament. One happy brewer one step closer! Thanks ancient!

 

[ancientmariner52]

You are welcome. I should probably mention, I live 500 miles from salt water. If you are near the sea that would change things a bit.

 

[user 246304]

You are welcome. I should probably mention, I live 500 miles from salt water. If you are near the sea that would change things a bit.

Thanks ancient. I was raised by the ocean, and miss it, but nope, square in dairy country, WI. There might be an issue with methane, but that's about it.

 

[user 246304]

Well, ugly or not, we're very close. Heat shields and pump mounts installed. If I thought my welds on the mild frame were bad, this joining of mild to stainless is really bad and does bring some concern. I stayed with the voltage I had, which was a dumb move, on the shields. You can see the nasty destruction, where I just wanted to tack weld. I stayed with the voltage on the pump mounts, because they are 11 gauge, thicker than the mild. Yet they, too, didn't like that much heat.

Anyway, ugly, and I know they're going to start corroding, but I knew that going in. Already checked my local metal supplier on stainless (they only offer 11 gauge), $9/ft so that's a "way down the road."

Here it is, in all its ugliness. Getting some pump bolts from sandy, member here, and when they arrive, the burners and pumps will be attached, and frame is, I hope, done:

 

[day_trippr]

That'll work!

 

[Dog House Brew]

Get some fire hooked to Betty and get rock’n. [emoji41] I like it

 

[Dog House Brew]

Oh and as for the paint, I used high temp spray bombs. I just did some work on the rig and painted it for the first time since building. Way cheaper than powder that will get burnt anyway. My $.02

 

[user 246304]

Wow, you don't know how much this means to get a vote of confidence from guys in the know like yourselves. It's really appreciated. It's just going to be a bit before acquiring the final Spike vessel for the HLT, so I thought I'd do something I've never done, a no-sparge or parti-gyle bit of play. Can't wait.

A guy reaches out to shake your many hands, lads. Thank you, thank you.

 

[user 125772]

Doesn't look that bad ... but if that was mine , I'd hide it .


...Nah, JK Gad
I'd knock down any high spots and sharp edges with a grinder, hit it with some metal-prep (phosphoric acid) and shoot some high-temp paint on it, prolly look like a million bucks.
Brew on!

 

[user 246304]

Oh, I probably will get high-falutin' with it, sleepy. We all could use someone to grind down our hard edges, and give us a better pair of clothes to sport around town in. But I hate having to change her name.