180 minute IPA

[zbfelt]

I am brewing a 180 minute IPA. I used a high gravity yeast and a booster, but some friends have said I will want to pitch another vial of yeast soon. However, when I asked the owner of our local homebrew shop, she said I should pitch another vial just a few days before bottling so it is fresh for the carbonation.

I just put it in the secondary fermenter after two weeks in the primary. It will be in the secondary for another 30 weeks. It seems that I should use more yeast but, I am looking for some kind of consensus as to when I should pitch the second vial.

I will post the specifics of the recipe later today to give you more information.

This is a $100 beer and I don't want to mess it up! Thanks for any input.

 

[discgolfin]

Recipe would help but I am assuming this was a big beer with lots of hops..if so... I would have kept in primary longer but thats a mood point. As for the yeast if you leave in secondary that long some fresh yeast before bottling would be a must....a whole vial is not needed..I like to use S-05 dry yeast and just rehydrate 1/3 of the package and add into bottling bucket when I bottle. It is fresh and ready to eat the sugar for bottling.

 

[broadbill]

yep, need the recipe.

Are you "feeding" this thing?

 

[fetishforethics]

K. Here's the recipe

Malt: 20 lbs Pale LME, 2.5 lbs Pilsner LME
1.75 lbs Crystal Malt

Hops: .44 oz Amarillo, .12 oz Nugget and Simcoe

Dry hop: 2 oz Amarillo, 1 oz Nugget, Simcoe

Yeast: Super High Gravity Yeast WLP099

I don't recall how much or what the yeast booster was, but I did use some sort of yeast booster.

Broadbill, what do you mean by "feeding"?

 

[fetishforethics]

Oh, also the initial gravity reading was 1.1356. I don't know if that information factors into anything, but I thought I would include it.

 

[fetishforethics]

Sorry, the wort hops that I posted must be the doses that were added 24 times over the course of 3 hours. That wouldn't make sense for it to be that low.
So....
10.56 oz Amarillo, 2.88 oz Nugget and Simcoe.

 

[phished880]

If you did not make a starter and some sort of O2 you will get no where close to the potential of that yeast. Incremental feeding would also aid in a more full attenuation, but from the sound of it my advice is a bit too late. When the yeast poops out (which it will), and probably too early for you, make a "starter' with some of the fermenting beer. that will help get it going or consider some wine yeast. good luck

 

[broadbill]

+1 to Phished880's comments. If you only pitched a vial of yeast into this monster then I would predict a stuck fermentation for sure. The high gravity will stress the yeast, causing them to attenuate prematurely. Pitching more yeast isn't going to help, because you'll be pitching into a partially fermented wort (high gravity AND alcohol now)...you'll just end up with more stressed yeast.

The other issue is aeration. It sounded like you do much/any so that will also lead to stressed yeast. From my reading about people doing high gravity brews, its not uncommon for them to aerate each day for a week after brewing, not just at pitching.

My best reccommendation at this point is to get another vial of yeast and make the biggest, baddest starter you can and try to get it into the fermenter ASAP. Heck, make 2 or 3 of them and keep dumping them in.

A way to get around the stress of high gravity wort is incremental feeding, as I and Phished 880 alluded to. But you are bit late for this. It entails making a lower gravity wort to get the yeast started in, then feeding the fermenting wort over a period of time with more fermentables. It keeps the yeast healthy by not pitching into a super high gravity wort, and it keeps them happy by a constant supply of fermentables.

Also some reading for you. They folks were making a DFH 120 minute clone and it was 2 weeks of baby-sitting it...doing incremental feedings and by incremental dry-hoppings. Its not for the faint of heart....good luck!

http://www.homebrewchef.com/120minuteIPArecipe.html

 

[Calder]

You racked to secondary. What was the gravity?

I'll bet it was high.

If this was 5 gallons, the OG should have been around 1.165 with that ingredient list. 5.5 gallons would be about 1.140. I suspect your gravity reading is incorrect; the LME not fully mixed could do this.

NOTE: LME is very predictable. 1 lb of LME will give you 36 points (or a gravity of 1.036 in 1 gallon). You had 22.5 lbs of LME which equals 800 points. Plus the Crystal, probably in the region of 30 points = 830 points. 830 divided by 5 (gallons) = 166, or a gravity of 1.166.

Whatever the FG ends up being, it is going to be a very sweet (as in sugar sweet) beer. Why does anyone want a very sweet 12-15% beer. You should have cut back on the malt extract and subbed in some sugar; you would still have plenty of malt flavor and the alcohol, but would end up at a much more palatable final gravity. I'm assuming this is a 5 gallon batch; I think you would be very lucky to get below 1.045. Maybe add some Brett and let that eat away at the sugars ..... oops, too high a gravity for Brett.

After thinking about it, I would recommend you split it into 2 batches (10 gallons) of effectively 1.080 OG wort, aerate, pitch some S-05 (or similar dry yeast) and be happy with a 1.020 FG (8% abv) IPA.

 

[indigi]

This is a $100 beer and I don't want to mess it up! Thanks for any input.

No starter, no aeration, no O2, no sugar, no specifics on gravity readings throughout fermentation... Sorry to say, but it sounds like you already did. Next time you want to make a super strong beer, you should do some more research and reading. I screwed up a Russian Imperial Stout last year for basically the same exact reasons.

 

[cdburg]

This might be a good read before your next attempt:

http://homebrewchef.com/120minuteIPArecipe.html

 

[schweaty]

Wow, a three hour boil! Kudos to you my friend. Brew on!

 

[iaefebs]

You might want to call Sam at Dogfish if you figure out how to get to FG. Just saw how he dumped a batch of 120 that didn't finish fermentation.

 

[SchlazzGraft]

You might want to call Sam at Dogfish if you figure out how to get to FG. Just saw how he dumped a batch of 120 that didn't finish fermentation.

I just saw that episode and was thinking the same thing - quite a similar conundrum here. A beer this strong is bound to have some problems unless you really know what you're doing.

I'll give you credit for trying it, i wouldn't have the guts for that yet. Gravity readings would be helpful, but it might be too late at this point.

 

[zbfelt]

The initial gravity was 1.134. I just check the gravity yesterday and it's now 1.061.

We tasted it and it is indeed ridiculously sweet.

 

[zbfelt]

So, what will be "wrong" with the beer?
It might not finishing fermenting... meaning what? Too sweet? Too low abv?

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I would just get another vial of WLP-099 and make a 1 liter starter then re-pitch.

In future, you should use the Mr.Malty calculator. You need to pitch huge amounts of yeast for these types of beers.

 

[weirdboy]

Next time you try to make this beer, make a regular pale ale or lower gravity IPA, then pitch the high gravity one onto the yeast cake from that and aerate the hell out of it.

1.134 is just too high IMO. It seems unlikely you could get anything but a sweet, hoppy beer-like substance unless you really know what you're doing. I mean MAYBE if you did AG and mashed low...but even then you are getting a ton of carmelization from such a long boil. Using LME I think there's no way.

 

[pennisim]

From the book "Yeast"

1) Rouse the yeast: blow CO2 up through the bottom of the fermentation tank, or tilt small homebrw fermenter on its edge and swirl the beer. This gets the yeast back in the beer, and drives off the CO2, which may be inhibiting the yeast.
2) Transfer the beer or the yeast: taking yeast out of bottom and adding it to the top: adds O2 and ensures yeast and wort sugars are evenly mixed.
3) Increase the temperature. Higher temps increase yeast activity (within limits)
4) Add more yeast. The book suggests dried Champagne yeast but this is more for a beer that has large amounts of simple sugars remaining since champagne yeast will not consume longer wort sugars. You can also add brewer's yeast, but it is hard to restart a fermentation that stops. Only add brewers yeast from a starter that is at its peak of activity: Add yeast to a small bit of ort, let it reach high kraeusen, then toss the whole thing in your beer. If you add enough yeast at their peak of activity, you should not need to add O2 to the beer.
5) Add enzymes. If the problem was with the wort sugar composition, this will help. However, if it is a fermentation problem this will not help.

Hope that helps.

edit: Also: Adding alpha amylase to a high gravity beer can restart the fermentation.

 

[smokinghole]

If I were you I'd make a 1.060ish pale ale using WLP099. Then when that's done and ready to bottle. Wash the yeast add a little wort to get the yeast active again, then rack this entire thing on that yeast. In order to restart a stuck fermentation you need a **** ton of yeast especially with a beer at 12%ish abv. You might want to throw some amylase enzyme in for good measure since you used LME for about all fermentables. I would also say that a quick blip of O2 might do you good too because you basically have a whole beer's worth of sugar to consume left in that 12% batch so the yeast should use the 02 up and scrub the beer clean.

 

[BreckBastion]

I think the best advice here is to spend some time reading this forum and maybe a book on brewing before just trying to make a high ABV beer.