120v blichmann boil coil

[jcs401]

I am wondering if anyone has used a 120V 10 gallon version 2250 boil coil? And was it able to bring 6-7gallons of wort to a rolling boil?

 

[bcltoys]

I have the 2000 watt in a 5.5 gallon pot and it will boil 5 gal's but it is a very slow boil 3/4 of a gallon a hour top's.

 

[jcs401]

So the 10g 2250 watt version would not get a 5 gallon batch (6-7g pre-boil) volume to a rolling boil??

 

[johnsant]

I have this system form High Gravity http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/BIAB-Electric-Brewing-System-120V-269p4647.htm it has the Blichman 2250 brew coil and it works with my 11 gal. kettle my last brew was 7.25 gal. pre boil it gave me a good boil for my money I would say it would work for your kettle.

 

[jcs401]

Anyone know where I can get a assembled temp control or say pre assembled on so I can hook to this boil coil and control my HLT temp? I'm not great with electrical so I want to be sure it would be right. Anything I can get to do this that isn't a fortune? I have a Johnson temp control but was told it would t support the boil coil and would need a relay??

 

[augiedoggy]

Anyone know where I can get a assembled temp control or say pre assembled on so I can hook to this boil coil and control my HLT temp? I'm not great with electrical so I want to be sure it would be right. Anything I can get to do this that isn't a fortune? I have a Johnson temp control but was told it would t support the boil coil and would need a relay??

for a 120v 20a boilcoil this is your best value as far as I can find... does everything the other popular controllers that sell for more do.
http://jaggerbushbrewing.com/PID-110-VOLT-CONTROLLER-2000-WATT_p_64.html

If your really concerned about budget I would skip the boil coil all together and use a 2000w heating element or 2 4500w ULWD elements wired on 120v (for 2250w with biult in upgrade capabilities later if you get 240v power).. The easily removable cord is the only real advantage of the boil coil as far as I know. and for $140. vs $20-50 thats kind of an expensive feature...

 

[jcs401]

Does anyone know if Home Depot/lowes or somewhere in Texas that sells 1500 watt heating element that would be ok for my kettle? I see Home Depot has some but are zinc plated and what not. Does it have to be stainless?

 

[augiedoggy]

Does anyone know if Home Depot/lowes or somewhere in Texas that sells 1500 watt heating element that would be ok for my kettle? I see Home Depot has some but are zinc plated and what not. Does it have to be stainless?

it does not have to be stainless but ULWD element are much safer and easier to clean... your best bet is to buy a 5500w 240v element and just run it on 120v making 1375w or use 2 of them...the small short 1500w elements are more likely to scorch things.

 

[jcs401]

I wasn't aware I could do that. So I could buy a 240 volt element and just wore it for 120? Is that safe??

 

[BrunDog]

Yes, but if you are running at 120, why not get a legit 2kW element on 120VAC such as https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element2000.htm

 

[augiedoggy]

Yes, but if you are running at 120, why not get a legit 2kW element on 120VAC such as https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element2000.htm

Well thats a LWD element not ULWD so while it will work there are steps that have to be taken to ensure scorching doesnt happen... for example unless you stir the wort really good prior to turning the element on, any protiens that are it the beer and may have started settling will land on to of the element and are likly to scorch to the element causing off flavors... This is more likely to happen on bigger beers with more proteins in them. or when someone turns off their element for a short time for some reason and then turns it back on.. (basically these are the type of elements that are responsible for electric the scorching /off flavor Rap)

ULWD elements are a safer gentler /better option (like the ripples) which is why they are more often recommended for a boil kettle. (Its also why ALL the bolicoils are super ULWD with a lot of surface area spreading the heat out)... A 240v elements ran on 120v would be super ULWD as well making scorching impossible and cleaning the elements very easy.

The original question I was responding to was in regards to 1500w elements jc2401 asked about... I agree if your looking for 2000w you need to go with 2 5500w or 4500w elements... The advantage here though is you will have 2500w (or 2250w with 2 4500w elements) and they will each run on normal 15amp circuits instead of dedicated 20a circuits...

 

[wilserbrewer]

Does anyone know if Home Depot/lowes or somewhere in Texas that sells 1500 watt heating element that would be ok for my kettle? I see Home Depot has some but are zinc plated and what not. Does it have to be stainless?

While stainless is nice, an element does not HAVE to be stainless. Lots of people have used the inexpensive 1500 or 2000w 120v, high density elements w/ success. I have used them for years and still do.

Are they the best option....No
Will they work.....Yes
Are they fashionable / popular....No

Clean well b/w batches to avoid scorching. Perhaps also best to stir up any trub while coming to boil, as it is the proteins that have a tendency to stick to the element and scorch.

I have scorched one batch out of very, very many...I believe it happened because I paused my brew session after the mash, all of the trub settled around the element and scorched badly when I fired the kettle an hour later. Other than that one time, no problems at all w/ HD elements scorching. You can scorch with lower watt density elements if unusual conditions occur as well...just sayin.

Is a $10 home depot element the best way to proceed....No

Will a $10 home depot element work...IME yes

 

[augiedoggy]

Yes to be clear I didnt wnat to imply they wont work... just as wilserbrewer stated they are not AS ideal for reasons stated..
also the zinc coating comes off quickly in the beer leaving a copper element which turns black/ oxidizes and is harder to keep clean.

Due to the unusually low heat density of the "Super" ULWD elements such as boil coils and 240v ulwd elements ran on 1/4 power output I dont think its even possible to scorch with these. I have heard or rare cases where scorching occured with normal 240v ULWD ripples ran on 240v..

Also regardless of what john Palmer has said I have been told that copper exposure to wort in a brewery is NOT ideal and many are phasing it out. I expect in 10 years it will no longer be allowed in commercial breweries from the conversation I recently had in Belgium with a brewery owner (coincidently with a science degree in the field related to such things) They were using a copper MLT/BK but replacing it. I have no proof of this, its just a hunch at this point.

.

 

[broadbill]

Well, I'm not a commercial brewery so I'm not going to worry about the miniscule amount of copper for my 2000W water heater element. If it oxidizes to the point I don't like it, I will buy another for $15. Its going to take quite few to get to what a blichmann costs.

And scorching? Hasn't happened to me either. I know people like to predict what could happen, but I can say it doesn't happen to me. FWIW.

 

[augiedoggy]

Well, I'm not a commercial brewery so I'm not going to worry about the miniscule amount of copper for my 2000W water heater element. If it oxidizes to the point I don't like it, I will buy another for $15. Its going to take quite few to get to what a blichmann costs.

And scorching? Hasn't happened to me either. I know people like to predict what could happen, but I can say it doesn't happen to me. FWIW.

I totally see where your coming from...
Dont you wonder though if that oxidized coating coming off in your beer doesnt effect flavor? ever lick a penny as a kid? Its a pretty nasty flavor...5 gallons is a miniscule amount of beer too in relation to the amount of copper in the elements..


a couple of the locals in Belgium were telling me Stella "used" to be looked at as a cheap and fairly poor tasting beer compared to others in the area and it coincidentally it improved dramatically about the time they abandon thier copper equipment and old breweies and switched to stainless...Just makes me wonder how much impact it may actually have on flavor, maybe coincidence and maybe not..

I wonder if commercial breweries ever notice a difference in beers they produce in both stainless and copper... I would suspect they would brew the heavier darker beers in the copper when possible then to hide it.. Good question to ask if I ever get the opportunity.

 

[broadbill]

I totally see where your coming from...
Dont you wonder though if that oxidized coating coming off in your beer doesnt effect flavor? ever lick a penny as a kid? Its a pretty nasty flavor...

I haven't really noticed any oxidation as the zinc coating seems to be holding. If it comes off, and I notice some oxidization I guess we will see.

Don't think I ever licked a penny, maybe that nasty flavor isn't from the copper and instead was is on the copper?

 

[wilserbrewer]

the zinc coating comes off quickly in the beer leaving a copper element which turns black/ oxidizes and is harder to keep clean.

The HD 2000 w elements I'm using now are holding up beautifully, the zinc / chrome is like new after many batches. In the past it has come off, not difficult to clean, I just scrub with a green pot scrubber pad and the deposits come right off...

Have you ever used HD elements auggie?

 

[augiedoggy]

Don't think I ever licked a penny, maybe that nasty flavor isn't from the copper and instead was is on the copper?

I figured you would say that right after I wrote it...
I used to use a copper sparge arm and it kept getting nasty requiring a lot of work to clean.. I admit I licked it out of curiosity and that was the last time I used it.

 

[augiedoggy]

The HD 2000 w elements I'm using now are holding up beautifully, the zinc / chrome is like new after many batches. In the past it has come off, not different to clean, I just scrub with a green pot scrubber pad and the deposits come right off...

Have you ever used HD elements auggie?

I used a highER watt density element once in a rims and after scorching 10 gallons of beer after many batches with no problems I replaced it with a lower density element and havent looked back but otherwise No.. I had no reason to with 240v..

I have read a lot of posts on others experiences with them here though... They come up often in sentences about scorching usually from folks who have no idea of the differences so it kinda tells me they are less tolerant to not scorching depending on circumstances. A lot of careful brewers that are big on routine seem to have good luck with them though so...

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ok, I guess my question should have been if you have ever used 120v HD elements in a boil kettle...and NO would be the answer...

 

[augiedoggy]

Ok, I guess my question should have been if you have ever used 120v HD elements in a boil kettle...and NO would be the answer...

Thats correct... point? Does that mean your implying they arent more likely to scorch than ULWD elements?
I have to have used them to be able to comment on whats already widely known and accepted because of others that have and learned the hard way?

I also have NEVER had scorching occur in boil kettle in any of the 60+ brews Ive made in it whereas you have...

I really dont want to argue... I though were agreeing on the elements and as soon as I bring up the topic of copper contact (which I have used BTW) and that its really just my unconfirmed opinion all the sudden I'm on the offense here because I havent used a High density element to boil?

As far as the element go, put it this way... You can cook a can of soup on a high gas flame just as you can on a low flame but the higher flame takes more work and caution to avoid scorching it to the bottom of the pan right?.. Thats due to the higher heat density over the same surface area.. if you take that same amount of gas heat energy as in the low flame and concentrate it to a smaller area with say a torch tip... Then what do you think would happen?

These are the same reasons better pots and pans have heavy metal bottoms to more evenly disperse the heat gently over an wider more even surface area... One is safer to use therefore superior than the other in function...all im trying to say.

On the topic of copper, You wont find a single current cooking utensil sold new where the copper comes in direct contact with the food. Why is that? Is the food really that much more acidic than wort?

 

[broadbill]

On the topic of copper, You wont find a single current cooking utensil sold new where the copper comes in direct contact with the food. Why is that? Is the food really that much more acidic than wort?

What about all of the copper CFCs out there? I've passed plenty of hot wort through mine over the years...no copper taste. I'm sure others could attest to this as well

My electric build is a counter-top Brutus setup where the mash/wort recirculates through my CFC almost constantly. No copper taste there.

I don't know about cook-ware, I would suspect that copper is out of vogue because stainless is harder, easier to clean/keep clean and doesn't oxidize. Is it out of vogue because copper leaches into the food? I dunno, but my impression that this doesn't happen in appreciable amounts.

 

[helibrewer]

I use this in my RIMs tube.....flawless, 120V, 1650W, LWD
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000LNICCO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[jcs401]

Biggest question, can I use this(attached picture) hooked to a 120v 20amp circuit? Also what would the wattage be if it was on 220?View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1451582487.884222.jpg

 

[BrunDog]

Well thats a LWD element not ULWD so while it will work there are steps that have to be taken to ensure scorching doesnt happen...

Solid point!

As far as copper is concerned, the jury is out whether cooper contamination is a real problem or not. If scientists end up deciding it is, there will be many homes getting gutted to remove the pipe!

I wouldn't mind eliminating copper in my rig. I only have the 2 shell chillers and they have cooper coils. I was thinking of switching to plate chillers, which are stainless brazed with copper. Any idea how much copper?

 

[BrunDog]

Yes, you can power a 240VAC element with 120VAC. You just cant power a 120VAC element with 240VAC.

The wattage is nominal, so it depends on the specific element... maybe a few watts less at 220VAC... say 4200? Not enough think about it.

 

[broadbill]

Yes, you can power a 240VAC element with 120VAC. You just cant power a 120VAC element with 240VAC.

The wattage is nominal, so it depends on the specific element... maybe a few watts less at 220VAC... say 4200? Not enough think about it.

You make it sound that they will get the full 4200W from the 240VAC element when wired on 120V...I don't think that is a case.

I think you will only get 25% of the 4200W...(1125W) if I understand the equasion correctly.

 

[jcs401]

Ok so if I get this one, will it work on a 120 without scorching?

 

[wilserbrewer]

While it may not scorch, only 1000 - 1100 watts is not enough to do much of anything unless we are talking tiny 1-2 gallon batches.

 

[AnOldUR]

May be too slow to step mash, but would be fine for holding temperature in an uninsulated kettle.

Or dialing in temperature after a step infusion.


edit: I'm an idiot. Read before posting.