1 dry yeast packet not enough for 3 gallon batch? - Brewer's Friend

[jeeppilot]

I'm trying to gain a greater understanding of those little workhorse bugs we use. I have always just pitched a rehydrated dry yeast pack for any 5 gal batch under 1.060. Two packs for anything over 60. But for education's sake I started looking at Brewer's Friend yeast calculator. I see for my 3 gal batch of wort at 1.067 OG, that a full pack of dry S-04 isn't enough??? 29 billion cells short it says, using .75 million/ml/P. And since this batch is over 60, if I use the 1 million/ml/P rate, I need just short of 2 full packets. Can someone tell me how this is? Have I been under pitching that severely? It seems so many people have told me that a single packet is fine for a 5 gallon batch under 60.

 

[brewshki]

I'm trying to gain a greater understanding of those little workhorse bugs we use. I have always just pitched a rehydrated dry yeast pack for any 5 gal batch under 1.060. Two packs for anything over 60. But for education's sake I started looking at Brewer's Friend yeast calculator. I see for my 3 gal batch of wort at 1.067 OG, that a full pack of dry S-04 isn't enough??? 29 billion cells short it says, using .75 million/ml/P. And since this batch is over 60, if I use the 1 million/ml/P rate, I need just short of 2 full packets. Can someone tell me how this is? Have I been under pitching that severely? It seems so many people have told me that a single packet is fine for a 5 gallon batch under 60.

one packet is generally enough. it is really more a guideline/generalization. just like one liquid vial is "enough."

 

[brewshki]

to learn more about yeast in general, I would buy the yeast book from brewer's publications. it is written by chris white and Jamil. I really learned a lot from it.

 

[Smellyglove]

It's because Brewersfriend operate with an other number as to how much viable yeast cells are in one pack than what resembles a real world situation. One pack is usually enough for 20+ liters of a "normal" strenght beer.

 

[jeeppilot]

@brewshki and @Smellyglove... I guess what I'm trying to rectify is what is ideal vs what will "just get the job done." Sure, one packet will complete the job, but it would appear to be far from ideal? I have made several batches that have had a mild "soapy" element to it. This, as I understand, can be a symptom of underpitching. Also, if I miss my FG, it tends to be on the high side, not the low side. So this is where I'm trying to take my brew to the next level.

 

[Nebraskan]

Yeast are dynamic little fungi that manage to bud (produce a daughter cell) about every 80 minutes, given optimal conditions. In theory, only a very small amount, say, 0.01mg of yeast could ferment a 100 gallon batch of anything, given that you could grow it up enough before adding to the main batch. This link give wonderful insight on yeast as well. https://www.morebeer.com/articles/how_yeast_use_oxygen

 

[brewshki]

@brewshki and @Smellyglove... I guess what I'm trying to rectify is what is ideal vs what will "just get the job done." Sure, one packet will complete the job, but it would appear to be far from ideal? I have made several batches that have had a mild "soapy" element to it. This, as I understand, can be a symptom of underpitching. Also, if I miss my FG, it tends to be on the high side, not the low side. So this is where I'm trying to take my brew to the next level.

I would then recommend that you look into building starters. I use the Beersmith yeast pitch calculator to figure out how big a starter I need and then build up my yeast with that. I have a stir plate, but these aren't necessary. I love starters as I know I have more yeast than I started with and they typically take off like rockets. I very rarely miss my FG high and when I do, it is maybe a point or two, which I don't worry about.

 

[JohnSand]

What was your preference in BrewersFriend? There are pitch options including "Professional".
I find the pitch calculators very cautious, with low viability estimates and high pitch rates.
I accept the manufacturer's recommendation. One pack is plenty for three gallons.

 

[dmtaylor]

I'm trying to gain a greater understanding of those little workhorse bugs we use. I have always just pitched a rehydrated dry yeast pack for any 5 gal batch under 1.060. Two packs for anything over 60. But for education's sake I started looking at Brewer's Friend yeast calculator. I see for my 3 gal batch of wort at 1.067 OG, that a full pack of dry S-04 isn't enough??? 29 billion cells short it says, using .75 million/ml/P. And since this batch is over 60, if I use the 1 million/ml/P rate, I need just short of 2 full packets. Can someone tell me how this is? Have I been under pitching that severely? It seems so many people have told me that a single packet is fine for a 5 gallon batch under 60.

One pack in 5 gallons is an overpitch. One pack in 3 gallons is a major overpitch.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=27438.0

 

[jeeppilot]

What was your preference in BrewersFriend? There are pitch options including "Professional".
I find the pitch calculators very cautious, with low viability estimates and high pitch rates.
I accept the manufacturer's recommendation. One pack is plenty for three gallons.

The selection I was using was “Pro” which uses .75 billion/ml/P as the pitching rate.

I started looking closer at my pitching rate because I feel like my biggest and most common fluctuations in beer quality can be attributed to fermentation. My temp control is spot on using BrewPi so that’s not the issue. So, yeast health and quantity is really the only other avenue to explore.

 

[JohnSand]

That is valid. Certainly you are wise to try to address the various elements.
Has anyone else tasted the flaw in your beer? Has anything else in your process changed?
I certainly don't think a starter or an over-pitch will hurt. Let us know what you do, and if it works. I have had some bad streaks in brewing, but always come back. You will too.

 

[Lefou]

While I love Brewers Friend's various calculators, the yeast pitching calculator is the one I typically ignore. One 11.5 gram packet/sachet of dry yeast in even a small .5l liquid starter pitched into 3 gallons of good wort is never an "under pitch". Viable cells contained in one packet are usually far more (10-15% more), and the manufacturer (Lallemand and Fermentis) is very generous with their product. See their yeast information data sheets on the websites for more info and take the calculator data with a grain or two of salt.

 

[1Floydbrew]

The soapy flavor you talk about can be yeast related however if your water is very alkaline it can cause the same issue. You did not say if your were brewing extract or all grain. If you use the same water high in alkalinity it can cause various problems when mashing sparring, or topping up. That being said do you just primary ferment or do you use a secondary vessel? When you leave dying or dead yeast in a fermenter too long yeast die and start to secrete enzymes from eating whatever they can find and this includes dead yeast. The protoletic enzymes they excrete from eating dead yeast can do this also. Typically when your airlock is bubbling less than a minute primary fermentation is over. I feel at this point and in my experience that it is time to get the good beer off the dying material. This means racking to a clean sanitized secondary bucket, glass carboy whatever is food safe. I hope you can clear the issue. But one pack of yeast in a 3 gallon batch is fine . I have pitched the same in over 5 gallons and had great results. I don’t recommend it always but I think you have other things to consider versus over pitching. Cheers, Floydbrew

 

[jeeppilot]

The soapy flavor you talk about can be yeast related however if your water is very alkaline it can cause the same issue. You did not say if your were brewing extract or all grain. If you use the same water high in alkalinity it can cause various problems when mashing sparring, or topping up. That being said do you just primary ferment or do you use a secondary vessel? When you leave dying or dead yeast in a fermenter too long yeast die and start to secrete enzymes from eating whatever they can find and this includes dead yeast. The protoletic enzymes they excrete from eating dead yeast can do this also. Typically when your airlock is bubbling less than a minute primary fermentation is over. I feel at this point and in my experience that it is time to get the good beer off the dying material. This means racking to a clean sanitized secondary bucket, glass carboy whatever is food safe. I hope you can clear the issue. But one pack of yeast in a 3 gallon batch is fine . I have pitched the same in over 5 gallons and had great results. I don’t recommend it always but I think you have other things to consider versus over pitching. Cheers, Floydbrew

I brew all grain. My water is pretty neutral (7.2) and typically don’t need to make any pH adjustments to get it in the normal mash range. Some really dark beers I may thin the mash a little if the pH is projected to be below 5.3. My normal ale fermentation process is to primary for 5-7 days at the specified temp. Once I see the Krausen begin to drop I bring the temp to 68F for 3 days to let the yeast “clean up”. After that I cold crash for 48 hours then transfer to keg. Depending on the style I may carb it then or let it sit and age at 68F before carbing. So typically I’m at less than 14 days before it’s in a keg and off the yeast cake/trub.

Do those who went from dry yeast to liquid yeast with a starter really notice a difference in their beer? I hear so many say that starters have made a big difference.

 

[jeeppilot]

While I love Brewers Friend's various calculators, the yeast pitching calculator is the one I typically ignore. One 11.5 gram packet/sachet of dry yeast in even a small .5l liquid starter pitched into 3 gallons of good wort is never an "under pitch". Viable cells contained in one packet are usually far more (10-15% more), and the manufacturer (Lallemand and Fermentis) is very generous with their product. See their yeast information data sheets on the websites for more info and take the calculator data with a grain or two of salt.

Yeah, I was so surprised by the numbers it was giving me. I couldn’t imagine how a packet isn’t enough for 3 when it’ll do 5 gallons in most cases.

If doing a liquid yeast with a starter, how does one determine how big a starter to make? I often see a 2L starter for 5 gal batches, but what about 3 gallons? I’m beginning to do more and more of those.

 

[JohnSand]

I think the yeast calculators will accommodate batches of different sizes and gravities.
I use vitality starters.