☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

[HarborTownBrewing]

Have you guys seen the new Behmor (not the black 1600)? I can't seem to find a link from Vimeo to share here....

They are having some issues with the Vimeo link right now, it says "Private Video". I think it got "leaked" one way or another, but they are formally releasing it tomorrow at the expo in Boston.

It's basically an Aillio Bullet. It will have a faster motor and will be 110 volt; not sure how it's powered yet; it uses Artisan. Pricing to be released tomorrow as well. They are talking about it being ready in early to mid 2020, so still a ways out.

King of industrial-chic.

 

[jammin]

^thats a Behmor!?

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Sure is. As I recall it is going to have a 1 kg capacity as well.

I know they worked on the Connected model for a while, and it was supposed to be the next "big" thing for the company. Joe Behm has been very upfront about the issues they've had with it, from government certifications to issues with cloud response times, and it sounds like they canned it until the technology can catch up enough to be cloud-compatible. It was probably a horrible decision to make it cloud dependent.

The shift they took in introducing this instead was probably the best decision they could have made, and probably what they should have done all along rather than the Connected. Obviously no one will know until they've messed around with it, but they took it back to basics and made a roaster that won't rely on cloud technology (bad idea for the Connected) and intense NEMA certs (I think it was NEMA that slowed down other models).

I'm REALLY interested to see where their pricing puts this. I am going to guess $2,300 but I wouldn't be surprised to see it priced anywhere between $2-$3k.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

@TallDan that looks pretty sweet! Did the seller say why he was getting rid of it? I'm curious if he was upsizing or downsizing.

 

[TallDan]

@TallDan that looks pretty sweet! Did the seller say why he was getting rid of it? I'm curious if he was upsizing or downsizing.

Upsizing, but some of what they told me didn’t quite make sense. It sounds like they’re trying to start a roasting business as a side gig, but haven’t got it off of the ground yet. Somehow, they determined that the roaster doesn’t have the capacity they need though. They don’t have a replacement roaster yet, so not sure how that works. They’re also in a garden apartment/condo in the city, so my best guess is that neighbors complained and they can’t really roast in any volume there.

 

[MaxStout]

Working on my heatgun roasting method and trying to think of ways to more efficiently air-cool beans right after roasting. Dumping back and forth between 2 pans takes a while to get them cooled down and I think the roast creeps up while the beans remain hot. I've been stopping right at the beginning of second crack, shooting for something around full city, but end up with it more like Vienna. I was watching a few YouTube videos on heatgun roasting yesterday and one of them gave me an idea: a downdraft box to draw air from above and cool the beans. The YT guy used an old hat box with a colander mounted atop and he attached a shop vac. He dumped the hot beans in the colander, powered the vac and stirred the beans with a whisk while it drew air down through them.

I made my version from a pop carton. Will try it next time I roast.

 

[shelly_belly]

I did the same thing. It works great! I'll grab a pic next time I roast.

 

[applescrap]

Working on my heatgun roasting method and trying to think of ways to more efficiently air-cool beans right after roasting. Dumping back and forth between 2 pans takes a while to get them cooled down and I think the roast creeps up while the beans remain hot. I've been stopping right at the beginning of second crack, shooting for something around full city, but end up with it more like Vienna. I was watching a few YouTube videos on heatgun roasting yesterday and one of them gave me an idea: a downdraft box to draw air from above and cool the beans. The YT guy used an old hat box with a colander mounted atop and he attached a shop vac. He dumped the hot beans in the colander, powered the vac and stirred the beans with a whisk while it drew air down through them.

I made my version from a pop carton. Will try it next time I roast.

View attachment 621600

I use that same colander with the smaller one on top. I hold them together with my left hand while hitting it with blower in right. Easy and quick. Then I use battery operated blower to clean chaff and gun. It's a tricky fish you are well on your way. I am sure there is a pic on this thread somewhere of that.

 

[TallDan]

Super interested in the details on the new Behmor roaster. Yeah, I just bought a roaster, but still interested.

Speaking of buying things...

After the last one was DOA, but supposed to be good, then got lost by USPS on the return to the seller, I somehow decided that it made sense to try again. I bought an "untested" behmor brewer on ebay for $20 (+$13 shipping). Seems to work just fine! Updated firmware, ran calibration, and am doing a test brew right now.

Working on my heatgun roasting method and trying to think of ways to more efficiently air-cool beans right after roasting. Dumping back and forth between 2 pans takes a while to get them cooled down and I think the roast creeps up while the beans remain hot. I've been stopping right at the beginning of second crack, shooting for something around full city, but end up with it more like Vienna. I was watching a few YouTube videos on heatgun roasting yesterday and one of them gave me an idea: a downdraft box to draw air from above and cool the beans. The YT guy used an old hat box with a colander mounted atop and he attached a shop vac. He dumped the hot beans in the colander, powered the vac and stirred the beans with a whisk while it drew air down through them.

I made my version from a pop carton. Will try it next time I roast.

View attachment 621600

I've seen it done with a plastic bucket instead of the box. It should work pretty well. You could also just use a big fan instead of the shop vac. The cooling tray for the Mill City is just a relatively small fan below a flat bottom colander.

 

[applescrap]

Watch out picasso. This pic sucks.

 

[Sbe2]

Watch out picasso. This pic sucks.View attachment 621625

Have you lost weight? You look great in that picture!

 

[Br3w4u]

Watch out picasso. This pic sucks.View attachment 621625

You aren’t supposed to put that thing near hot stuff! It will hurt! Oh wait I might be interpreting this picture wrong....prevert.....

 

[jammin]

@TrickyDick did you (or anyone else?) roast the Guji Guracho from the GCBC? I ground a dose today for an iced coffee and the dry berry aroma was very strong. Did not translate well to the cup, perhaps bc it’s iced? It’s there no doubt, but wow from the aroma

 

[TallDan]

@TrickyDick did you (or anyone else?) roast the Guji Guracho from the GCBC? I ground a dose today for an iced coffee and the dry berry aroma was very strong. Did not translate well to the cup, perhaps bc it’s iced? It’s there no doubt, but wow from the aroma

I didn't buy any, but it looks like it's still available. Sounds like it's worth picking up 5lb...

 

[TrickyDick]

I use that same colander with the smaller one on top. I hold them together with my left hand while hitting it with blower in right. Easy and quick. Then I use battery operated blower to clean chaff and gun. It's a tricky fish you are well on your way. I am sure there is a pic on this thread somewhere of that.

I’ll have to take a picture of my cooling apparatus. The bullet comes with one of its own, but I disliked it. Instead I used the cooling basket, basically a colander, and carved hole in a homer bucket lid and affixed a shop vac to a hole in the bottom. It works extremely fast for cooling the whole bean mass. I had installed a motor to stir the beans in the colander, stir bar I made didn’t work well so I disconnected that part until I get a better idea. I stir by hand now..
TD

 

[applescrap]

Sounds pretty clever. Would love to see it. Love to see the bullet in action too. Are you getting through the stash? Here is a pic I found from a ways back. The blower is ryobi battery operated. The beans stir with the air and on a cold rocky mtn day cool instantly also cleaning them beautifully from the agitation. You can see in the pic the blower is off. The beans settled on the side they fly up. I then blow the deck and most importantly the hg and bm. Done. No cords, nada. Then carry the beans in, in the collander.

That guat geisha is meh at best. The bl guji maho is better. Maybe I should try to take it a pinch darker. It's easy to roast and certainly superior to where its from but when compared against a quality yirg it is wanting.

 

[TrickyDick]

Not working through the stash. Going to get rid of everything older than 2017. Except on bag of EYC Janbar. Going to see how that is. Have another bag of it. What a schmuck I feel like. Got about 25-30 lbs. fits in a beer case. Anyone wants it pays for shipping, give me a shout. I can put together a list of what I have. Probably great for people who like char bucks.

 

[TallDan]

Not working through the stash. Going to get rid of everything older than 2017. Except on bag of EYC Janbar. Going to see how that is. Have another bag of it. What a schmuck I feel like. Got about 25-30 lbs. fits in a beer case. Anyone wants it pays for shipping, give me a shout. I can put together a list of what I have. Probably great for people who like char bucks.

I’d take some. I have a roaster to learn.

 

[MaxStout]

Sounds pretty clever. Would love to see it. Love to see the bullet in action too. Are you getting through the stash? Here is a pic I found from a ways back. The blower is ryobi battery operated. The beans stir with the air and on a cold rocky mtn day cool instantly also cleaning them beautifully from the agitation. You can see in the pic the blower is off. The beans settled on the side they fly up. I then blow the deck and most importantly the hg and bm. Done. No cords, nada. Then carry the beans in, in the collander.

That guat geisha is meh at best. The bl guji maho is better. Maybe I should try to take it a pinch darker. It's easy to roast and certainly superior to where its from but when compared against a quality yirg it is wanting.View attachment 621833

I like that concept, Scrappy. Two colanders together then move some air through it. Do you clamp them together somehow or just put one on top of the other?

I wouldn't need the blower with the winds blowing like they've been here lately.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I stopped by one of the La Colombes today and they have this beauty sitting in the back corner. A shame to see this thing going unused.

I had a Burundi. Definitely not the best I've had. It's unfortunate how much their quality has gone down over the years.

 

[applescrap]

I like that concept, Scrappy. Two colanders together then move some air through it. Do you clamp them together somehow or just put one on top of the other?

I wouldn't need the blower with the winds blowing like they've been here lately.

They fit inside one another and I use the left hand to hold both from top, never tried a clamp. I use a potholder and dump from bm into big collander. Put little one on top and hold blower in right hand. I know when they are cool by feel with my left hand. As the air blowing off them changes. Blow bm and put away about 15 minutes per pound start to finish. I figure it locks in the roast level. Don't know if that's a thing.

 

[jammin]

@applescrap - nice yrg zone posted @ the GCBC. I grabbed 5lbs. Sounds like a good, fruity Ethiopian


Link for anyone interested
https://www.greencoffeebuyingclub.com/index.php?topic=21486.0

 

[applescrap]

Looks super nice. I need to see what I have. That damn geisha arghh would rather be drinking banko natural. Might have to pick some up regardless.

 

[TallDan]

Behmor has pics and some information about their new roaster on their website. Looks quite nice. No price yet.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Behmor has pics and some information about their new roaster on their website. Looks quite nice. No price yet.

$2,495.

 

[TallDan]

$2,495.

Right in line with the bullet then. Not bad.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

If anyone is curious about the new Behmor roaster, "Jake", you can see more here: https://behmor.com/jake-kilo-roaster/

If anyone wants my take:
I'm getting hung up on the electrical, especially because that's a big component and probably the ONLY real issue people have had with the original Behmor 1600. This roaster requires 20 amp 120 volt service. Many older homes don't have 20 amp outlets unless they did a quality renovation. That's even the case with builder-grade newer construction too - a lot of homes are run with 15 amp outlets (cheaper/easier). That said, that's something to consider because the average Joe isn't going to run their own dedicated 20 amp outlet for this on their own.

Being that it requires 20 amp service, it's worth noting it also uses 2000 watts of electric. 2000 watts is over the upper-limit of recommended load on a 20 amp outlet, even if it's dedicated, because typically you don't want to exceed 75 to 80% of your circuit. 75%-80% of 20 amps is between 1800 and 1920 watts.

I can't tell what kind of heating system it uses, but it doesn't seem to be induction if it's 2000 watts. For comparison, the Bullet maxes out at 1,500 watts at maximum power.

They note minimum roast times of 12 mins. I wonder if that's the case even with a 1/4lb charge. That's a long roast.

What's going to be interesting to me is, how are they going to support this. I've contacted Behmor support a couple times and will admit they are generally fantastic at responding to issues in a timely, thorough manner - even well outside of the warranty period. But they're going to REALLY need to step up their game to support a roaster like this. If a customer is using this to operate a small cafe, they can't wait 3 days for Bob to respond - they will need an answer right away.

I loved my Behmor 1600 but I would never spend $2,500 on this roaster; it honestly seems insane to me considering what the Bullet is priced at. I still think the Bullet is under-priced, and seeing this Behmor at $2,500 sort of justifies that in my opinion.

 

[TallDan]

If anyone is curious about the new Behmor roaster, "Jake", you can see more here: https://behmor.com/jake-kilo-roaster/

If anyone wants my take:
I'm getting hung up on the electrical, especially because that's a big component and probably the ONLY real issue people have had with the original Behmor 1600. This roaster requires 20 amp 120 volt service. Many older homes don't have 20 amp outlets unless they did a quality renovation. That's even the case with builder-grade newer construction too - a lot of homes are run with 15 amp outlets (cheaper/easier). That said, that's something to consider because the average Joe isn't going to run their own dedicated 20 amp outlet for this on their own.

Being that it requires 20 amp service, it's worth noting it also uses 2000 watts of electric. 2000 watts is over the upper-limit of recommended load on a 20 amp outlet, even if it's dedicated, because typically you don't want to exceed 75 to 80% of your circuit. 75%-80% of 20 amps is between 1800 and 1920 watts.

I can't tell what kind of heating system it uses, but it doesn't seem to be induction if it's 2000 watts. For comparison, the Bullet maxes out at 1,500 watts at maximum power.

They note minimum roast times of 12 mins. I wonder if that's the case even with a 1/4lb charge. That's a long roast.

What's going to be interesting to me is, how are they going to support this. I've contacted Behmor support a couple times and will admit they are generally fantastic at responding to issues in a timely, thorough manner - even well outside of the warranty period. But they're going to REALLY need to step up their game to support a roaster like this. If a customer is using this to operate a small cafe, they can't wait 3 days for Bob to respond - they will need an answer right away.

I loved my Behmor 1600 but I would never spend $2,500 on this roaster; it honestly seems insane to me considering what the Bullet is priced at. I still think the Bullet is under-priced, and seeing this Behmor at $2,500 sort of justifies that in my opinion.

I'm less negative, but still skeptical about it.

Two 20a circuits in a kitchen has been a code requirement for many years now, hasn't it? I don't think that 120v 20a is that big of a deal breaker. Of course, it'll be a consideration for anyone who would want to use it anywhere other than their kitchen, and given it's size, that could be most people. So you may be right.

Support is probably no worse than what Aillio can provide. I don't think the Aillio or Behmor have (or will have) a recommended monthly volume that is conducive to commercial use (other than a sample roaster) anyway. If you wanted to run much of a business using either machine as a production roaster, you'd probably need to have two of them, which of course puts you into the price range of single roasters with much better support.

As for heating type and performance (min roast time), we'll have to wait and see, just like we did when the bullet was in it's infancy. 2000w of resistive heat is quite a bit if it's efficient and well insulated. Given that Behmor still says that the 1600 roasts up to 1lb, I'm guessing that the Jake may not roast 1kg any better than the 1600 roasts 1lb. That makes the Jake's optimal capacity more around 1lb, which to me is just fine.

If nothing else, it gives Behmor a "halo" home roaster. Behmor may not even count on selling many of them. Aillio proved that there's a market for $2,500 home roasters, so why not give them some competition?

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

You've got to get on the Bullet fb page man. It's got great discussion, probably the most quality discussion I've seen on a coffee page, but it would also prove to you that just about everyone is using the Bullet in a commercial way of some sort [emoji12]

 

[TallDan]

If anyone is thinking of selling their Behmor, get it listed on ebay quick. Mine just sold for $315, and there are none on ebay right now.