☕ Coffee ☕: Ingredients, Roasting, Grinding, Brewing, and Tasting

[TallDan]

Tried Intelligentsias Black Cat espresso last night at a place where they sold double shots for $2.75 (good price, right? Or is my baseline out of wack?)

First time since I really understood coffee that I tried that espresso and I really liked it. I couldn't really put a finger on the flavors I tasted, but the wife was quick to identify - it was a proud moment for me haha.

If it's good espresso, I just tell them to take my money. I have no baseline.

So, time for a home espresso machine to try to chase the elusive perfect shot?

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Haha man I'm still trying to figure out how to roast consistently well for drip!

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Okay, so I was on vacation last week and had some coffee related thoughts and observations:

1) When you travel, especially to an area without many roasters, it makes you realize how accustomed you have become to good coffee. Whether it was the hotel coffee, gas station coffee, or even coffee from a smallish state-wide chain - just about all of them truly suck.

2) There are roasters dominating local markets who are roasting very bad coffee, but nobody locally knows any better because it's all they have had.

3) The roaster from bullet point #2 sells Kona and Jamaican Blue Mountain for $42/lb. Both beans were pretty dark - definitely taken at least to 2nd Crack, and sitting in an open bin. For $42/lb...

4) Found a place with coffee from the Dominican Republic of CONGO. I've NEVER seen this before; apparently they have some connections there so they are able to source beans from the country, despite the crazy politics going on there. It was pretty decent.

5) When you go to a coffee shop, and ask "what coffee are you pouring today?" and they give you a crazed look, you should probably just walk out.

5.1) When you clarify, and ask, "What is the coffee's origin?" and they respond, "Ohio", you should probably just run out.

 

[jammin]

^HA! All true!

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Have any of you tried ordering from Happy Mug? They have a Yemen which I'm curious to try; they also have some very honest descriptions for their beans, which is nice to see. Haven't tried them yet though.

 

[TallDan]

I was out of town this weekend, and generally just count on not having a decent cup of coffee when I'm traveling. Free coffee at the hotel wasn't as terrible as some, but only worth the price paid.

I was also just about out of coffee since i forgot to roast before I left, which meant roasting this morning, then brewing just as soon as I was done. About a third of the beans for this coffee were Burundi that were roasted a week ago, and the other two thirds Guatemala beans roasted this morning. I expected some sort of off flavors with coffee that had no rest, but this isn't bad at all.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I expected some sort of off flavors with coffee that had no rest, but this isn't bad at all.

What I've noticed with super freshly roasted coffee is just that it's a little muddled - I can't get any distinct flavors out of the cup, but the flavors are all there still.

Update on that super light roast Nicaragua I'd mentioned a few times. I tried it again this morning, after it rested about 2 weeks now, and it was probably the best cup from that roast so far. Very very creamy - you'd have though I added something to it. It was pretty good; figures it was the last of that roast.

 

[TrickyDick]

Finally roasted up some of Klatch's Aceh Gold Sumatra today using the profile jammin posted a few pages back. Probably won't get around to drinking a cup until Saturday morning though as I still have a pot worth of gedeo worka to clear out tomorrow.

Care to refresh our memory on how these turned out and how you roasted? Have 1# aceh and 2# gedeo and want to roast these next.

Thanks!!

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

Colombia Timana La Florida Verede

Bought 5# of these, never roasted a columbian before. Any suggestions on where to start??

Need to start keeping a log book of roast strategies for every origin bean.. This is more complicated than brewing beer!!!

TD

 

[jammin]

Colombia Timana La Florida Verede

Bought 5# of these, never roasted a columbian before. Any suggestions on where to start??

Need to start keeping a log book of roast strategies for every origin bean.. This is more complicated than brewing beer!!!

TD

its a soft bean so go easy on it. shoot for a light city. shouldnt need an extended stretch as the acidity is generally mild

 

[TrickyDick]

Ended up roasting the Klatch Sumatra Aceh Gold tonight. split the #1 into two batches. The Artisan app kinda glitched on the second batch though, the display and auto event marks don't appear. Not really very suave at managing uploading stuff as it turns out. It will not let me upload the miniscule files from artisan, 13 and 16 KB, but will probably let me upload graph in jpg that are 5 times the size...

anyways, will see how the roasts tastes...

TD

 

[Bensiff]

Care to refresh our memory on how these turned out and how you roasted? Have 1# aceh and 2# gedeo and want to roast these next.

Thanks!!

TD

I did my best to duplicate Jammin's posted profile. I have a Gene Cafe roaster so I don't have the control or temp readings he does. The Gene Cafe takes an average heat temp between two probes IIRC and is based off air temp. So, after preheating I roasted 200 grams (where the Gene Cafe seems to settle in nicely) with the temp set to 482 degrees. If well preheated this will get me to first crack around 9.5 minutes. Once I'm solid into FC I dropped the temp down to 430 and ride out the rest of first crack which isn't very long, maybe 10 seconds longer after the air temp hits 430, then I drop again to 400 and let it ride out for 3 minutes, for the Gene Cafe that is cool enough that the beans never hit 2nd crack. Anyway, I tried both of them running them at full temp all the way through and then dumping without the 3 minute stretch at the end and I will say the 3 minutes makes for a much better cup. Better and more subdued acidity. The Gedeo has a very overripe banana smell as a green coffee and roasted if you don't do the 3 minute stretch. I do not like that character, so I do the stretch at the end every time now with both of the coffees. I also had my 2 year old distract me on one batch of the aceh and I ended up with some nice French Roast. Made a pretty good espresso, well as good as my crappy espresso machine can make it...but, good enough for me to start wanting to buy a respectable espresso machine.

 

[TallDan]

What I've noticed with super freshly roasted coffee is just that it's a little muddled - I can't get any distinct flavors out of the cup, but the flavors are all there still.

After having the same coffee again this morning, I'd say it's more like the flavors are toned down than muddled. Yesterday's coffee was less flavorful and almost seemed a little thinner in mouthfeel.

 

[TrickyDick]

Drinking a Burundi mpembe(?) I think today 9 days rest, enjoying it very much. My sinuses are still jacked up from surgery, but I think I'm starting to get the hang of this roasting, at least to the point where I'm starting to be able to pick out some of flavor notes in the descriptions.

Need to start keeping a better log of my roasting strategy compare that to the flavors I'm tasting. I think that can all be done in the artisan app.

TD

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I think burundi coffee is a little underappreciated. I really like the flavor from that bean a lot, they're just a bit harder to find.

Flavors are funny when tasting coffee. I roasted one I thought had a sweet, creamy, citrus flavor but a friend told me they thought it tasted like hazelnut.

I was cupping at La Colombe once and the roasters were telling me how they all know how each other describe certain beans, even though a lot of times their description words aren't the same. Same thing can absolutely be true with beer.

 

[TrickyDick]

^thats huge. Looking forward to hearing your progress w/the roaster upgrade.

Really interested to hear how the TDS meter works out. The original coffee specific meters were very spendy

So the TDS meter from Amazon cannot read coffee directly without dilution using distiller water because coffee TDS is too high for these inexpensive meters. When performing the dilution, the meter reported only 10% of the expected value, and furthermore, the resolution and accuracy is insufficient for testing brewed coffee I have concluded. It is useful for checking your water however, and might prove useful in brewing.... Maybe.

I emailed VST about refurbished models. Well the long and the short of it is that I now have a coffee lab 2 (the newest is the three but they still have some older models available.). They made me a deal too good to pass up. So far, I've discovered that in brewing my coffee its way over extracted, if the results are to be believed. I think I need to make grind more coarse, and that the settings on my vario with the steel burrs inserted are skewed a click or two towards fine due to differences in the height of the steel vs ceramic burrs. I'll shoot them an email to ask about this.

Fun rabbit hole I jumped down into. Next thing I'll be wanting a pressure profiling espresso machine and a VST filter and tamper and a pressure transducer to dial in the tamping force. This is worse than homebrewing....
TD

 

[TrickyDick]

Roast'n some Guat this morning


Artisan roast profile

Reviewing this thread to dig through Jammin's roast profiles. This one is hard to read, but now that I understand a little bit better about roasting, I must say that I am very impressed with the ability you have to hold the stretch so tightly for 2:30 with only 9° temp rise! Was that final temp 398 it looks like?

 

[jammin]

^thanks. It was my only hope to tame that super fast development. I believe it finished very close to 400 but it's quite hard to read in that pic.

I roasted that same bean again and finished at 391, just barely City. I like there a lot better. SM said city+ and up, but I don't agree. I did have a much slower progression though which really helped develop the bean.


Edit: wow, didn't realize you were referring to an old post . My post was based on a recent roasting of some guat i shared.

 

[TrickyDick]

^ive literally spent thousands on coffee equipment over the years from espresso to drip.

The grinder is the key piece of equipment no matter the preparation (spro/drip). I've used almost all the baratza grinders and the Virtuoso is about the best for drip. I'm currently using a Vario-W with upgraded Ditting burrs. I pair that with a digital kettle for very consistent results.

Check with Kyle at baratza for a refurb Virtuoso - it will be the best money you've ever spent. If you get one - Id be happ to send you some home roast

I think one of the big differences between the virtuoso and my grinder (vario) is the conical vs flat burrs. I recently switched to steel burr set (since I don't brew espresso). I think I still need to adjust my grind. That seems to be a likely culprit in my over extraction. Maybe it's time to do some test brewing over the weekend and get her dialed in proper .. Finally..

 

[TrickyDick]

Agreed. Lots of conflicting opinions on the best way to add coffee to beer.

Mmm... Espresso...
View attachment 230240

There is a KBS and Breakfast stout thread in HBT where there are detailed discussions about adding the coffee, including much insanity about sterilizing the coffee, etc. I think the slim majority consensus was use cold brewed coffee in a sanitized carafe with boiled and cooled brewing water, and don't sweat the potential infectious agents on the coffee grounds.
I believe was also added to secondary as well.
I wonder how a really bright coffee would taste in a stout. One way to experiment of course, would be to blend a favorite stout with brewed and cooled coffee.

 

[TrickyDick]

Also, I never stir the grounds in the technivorm. Back when I first got it, I found that i easily preferred the flavor of the coffee when i didn't stir vs. when i did. I use a swiss gold filter and usually don't make a full pot, if either of those make a difference.

Interesting. I've only recently begun to do this. It does increase extraction. It also gets the high and dry grounds back into the game. Tomorrow I will push them down and no stir. I've tried the steep and stir trick too. Too many forgetful moments and whoops, coffee everywhere. Read that Tom at SM suggested this, though my TV doesn't have the switch. Sliding the pot under after the cone has filled can occasionally make for a mess even when I do remember to slide the pot under before the cone overflows.... Wondering now if stirring could be contributing to my overextraction too....

TD

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I think one of the big differences between the virtuoso and my grinder (vario) is the conical vs flat burrs. I recently switched to steel burr set (since I don't brew espresso). I think I still need to adjust my grind. That seems to be a likely culprit in my over extraction. Maybe it's time to do some test brewing over the weekend and get her dialed in proper .. Finally..

I don't know about the Virtuoso, but with my Encore I had to calibrate the grind settings to get anything remotely close to what I expected with the guide-numbers Baratza included. Also, I was able to get a much finer grind.

Maybe it was because the Encore is the base model, but it came to me from the factory waaaaaay out of calibration. Like, so far out you have to wonder what the heck kind of quality control (none) they have. It's a fine product, but that left me sour.

Anyways, I had found a video from Seattle Coffee Gear on how to calibrate it, and it was about a 15 min job. Made a huge difference. Not sure if this would help, but perhaps.

 

[TrickyDick]

This helps a tad bit: the SCAA Water Brewing Standards, http://www.scaa.org/?page=resources&d=water-standards

As I understand, the SCAA guidelines are the ones being followed for the roasting facility I mentioned.

I'd really like to know if there is any bottled water which is good for brewing at home. It's frustrating for me to take coffee beans to my parents place and make okay coffee, but then take the same beans 30 mins up the road and brew fantastic coffee.

Here is some other information I found:

Source 1- they sell commercial water prep equipment for coffee brewing and also offer a two part concentrate for adding to I assume distiller water to achieve perfect brewing water for coffee.
TDS 150 or less
Chlorine and iron 0 ppm
Total alkalinity 20-30
Total hardness 4 grains (what the heck is that in Ppm )
pH 8

Source 2- writes books about making coffee
TDS 120-130
T. Alk 50
PH 7
T. hardness 70-80

 

[TrickyDick]

Oh you're gonna love this then....

Artisan allows you to enter project 1C temp as a setting(same with drying and 2C). Artisan will then give you real time estimates of when this will occur as the roast develops.

Can you tell me where to enter the project 1C value?? Can't find...

 

[TrickyDick]

my SM order showed up today; just in time i might add.

i roasted 2 batches of the guat. 1st one went really well and i got totally side tracked on the 2nd. nearly got away from me so we'll see how it cups. I blended them both post roast and saved enough for 1 cup of each to compare. similar curves, but roast 2 hit all marks slightly quicker and finished 2 degrees higher.

How did this turn out by the way? I don't recall your mention of tastings..

 

[TrickyDick]

^thanks. It was my only hope to tame that super fast development. I believe it finished very close to 400 but it's quite hard to read in that pic.

I roasted that same bean again and finished at 391, just barely City. I like there a lot better. SM said city+ and up, but I don't agree. I did have a much slower progression though which really helped develop the bean.


Edit: wow, didn't realize you were referring to an old post . My post was based on a recent roasting of some guat i shared.

Ok. Yeah I was going through the thread today and taking some notes and looking closely at your graphs, now that I understand a little better some of the advice you were giving me that was sort of over my head even just a few weeks back.

Seems another way to record roasting data is mark time and temp of three or four points: end of drying (300°), 1C start, 1C end, drop (and if your into 2C then those points too).

Seems darn near all your graphs show incredible control of the stretch ROR. How do you manage that? I sort of wish that the HotTop let you dial in a temp instead of a %power for the heater. This is where the art meets the science I guess.

In case tall couldn't tell I've commented on several older posts today!

TD

edit- I think I have stockpiled nearly a years worth of various green coffee. Still looking for a nice 5-10 lot of Kenyan without a murderous $ tag. I bought 2# of the Kirinyaga Kiangoi at SMs. Tons of ethiopians and Guatamala stuff and a smattering of others. Half wish I hadn't got the sampler pack when I ordered the roaster, some of the descriptions (esp the Zimbabwe Chipinge) are not something I'd have chosen myself in retrospect.

 

[jammin]

^as i read about others here logging data points by every 30 seconds it reminded of myself in my early stages of learning to roast. eventually it dawned on me that the data wasn't helpful and what really mattered was the power settings, charge temps and what times I finished drying, hit 1C and finished the roast. Thats what really helps you control the roast and get what you want.

People get so caught up making micro-adjustments that they don't actually know what settings point the roast in the proper direction. It's takes time, practice and patience... and a few pooched roasts

How did this turn out by the way? I don't recall your mention of tastings..

after a few days rest, not half bad. nothing special by any means. it did let me know the bean needed more development and a lighter roast.

this is why i always recommend guats to beginner roasters. they are incredibly forgiving on so many levels. the coffee is almost always caramely and chocolatey and who's gonna complain about that?

 

[jammin]

FYI on the Baratza Virtuoso...

There was a report published a few years ago about grind particle consistency and test done on a few different grinders. The study targeted grind particle size focused around drip range, maybe more so towards Press if my memory serves me correctly. The upshot of the study was that large, planar (flat burr) grinders yielded the most consistent grind particles. The best of the best being Mahlkoenig and Ditting's shop line offerings.

What was surprising about the study, was that the humble Virtuoso helds it own among titans. It wasn't the best, but it was DAMN close. After several pounds of both the Vario and Virtuoso, I much preferred the less expensive grinder (although the steel burrs on the vario helped close the gap). It was impressive how little "dust" the virtuoso made. If you like press pot - i'd highly recommend that grinder

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

Speaking of press pot, I tried a Harrar in the press this morning and it was boring as heck. In the Chemex it sang and had great flavor.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

So this morning I was making coffee for 10 people, fresh roasted from Wednesday specifically for this weekend. To be prepared I brought my grinder and chemex, plus a scale, just to try to get the best flavor.

So I get up this morning to make it and realize the place we are staying has no way too heat water for the pour over. Thus, drip machine it is.

Not a fancy one, it's a cheap Hamilton Beach 12 cup. I'm kind of flustered measuring out the coffee for this thing actually. But I decide to not take it so seriously and kind of wing it.

It brews and everyone tries it - love it. I myself can't believe how well it tastes. Actually it may be better in the coffee maker than when I made it in chemex. Rich caramel, chocolate, and a creamy sweetness.

So, I may have just found a go to coffee pot bean, which I've struggled to find the last year or so.