When to use US-05 vs. S-04?

StophJS · Dec 22, 2011

After brewing several batches with both US-05 and S-04, one distinct thing that I've noticed about the 04 vs. the 05 is that the 04 compacts incredibly well and practically paints itself to the bottom of bottles. So I'm wondering, has anyone found any styles of beer where they really feel the US-05 is a much better choice? Otherwise I might just stick with the S-04 from now on.

Edit: Sorry, wrong forum section.

C-Rider · Dec 22, 2011

StophJS said:
After brewing several batches with both US-05 and S-04, one distinct thing that I've noticed about the 04 vs. the 05 is that the 04 compacts incredibly well and practically paints itself to the bottom of bottles. So I'm wondering, has anyone found any styles of beer where they really feel the US-05 is a much better choice? Otherwise I might just stick with the S-04 from now on.

Edit: Sorry, wrong forum section.

I use 04 for British Ales and 05 for American Ales. Never got more technical than that. :tank:

HomebrewMTB · Dec 22, 2011

You'll get more bready yeast flavor with the S-04 where the US-05 is more clean. You might try Nottingham as well. It floccs well but still fairly clean but maybe not quite as crisp.

NordeastBrewer77 · Dec 22, 2011

C-Rider said:
I use 04 for British Ales and 05 for American Ales. Never got more technical than that.

04 attenuates lower and will leave more residual sweetness. Also produces esters typical of English yeast.
05 is pretty clean, attenuates very well, thus drying out the beer.
Both floc pretty well, given enough time, but being English, the 04 will drop like a brick when it's done (or sometimes not quite done).
Hope that helps.

Diver165 · Dec 22, 2011

I've never noticed a bready flavor from S-04. I haven't really paid much attention. I like darker beers and it fits my palette. Now on the other hand, I use a lot of S-05 for my american style beers.

I tend to stick with what I like and the Fermentis S-04 and S-05 have worked well for me.

HomebrewMTB mentioned Nottingham. Never tried it in beer, but it makes a kickass cider! I make gallons of it each year. SWMBO and I love the way it always turns out.

ayoungrad · Dec 22, 2011

I previously thought S04 attenuates less than US05. But looking back I get close to 80% attenuation on beers mashed close to 150 with both strains.

I use SO4 if I want a little contribution to the malt/ester profile. But, for some styles like bitters, SO4 is too highly attenuating for me.

StophJS · Dec 22, 2011

Thanks for the responses. I do really love the flocculation of S-04 but I could see how US-05 would be more appropriate for some styles.

duckmanco · Dec 22, 2011

I'm thinking about switching from us05 to using Nottingham st 59f or so for American ales where I don't want any esters... I'm running into a peachy estery thing once in a while with us05 and id like to take that out of the equation.

sudsmcgee · Dec 22, 2011

Us-05 tastes much better above 68 degrees than s-04 if thats an issue.

HomebrewMTB · Dec 22, 2011

Diver165 said:
I've never noticed a bready flavor from S-04. I haven't really paid much attention. I like darker beers and it fits my palette. Now on the other hand, I use a lot of S-05 for my american style beers.

I tend to stick with what I like and the Fermentis S-04 and S-05 have worked well for me.

HomebrewMTB mentioned Nottingham. Never tried it in beer, but it makes a kickass cider! I make gallons of it each year. SWMBO and I love the way it always turns out.

Bready probably isn't the best description but it's generally a little more noticeable flavor than US-05. S-04 is supposed to be a bit less attenuating but that can vary. As always it depends on the fermentation temp on exactly what you get out of the yeasties. I've mostly used S-04 in stouts where the flavor is less noticeable, than say a pale ale. It's not a huge night and day difference though. If doing all grain, you could adjust mash temps a bit to get whatever attenuation range you want but with extract, you get what you get.

Schnitzengiggle · Dec 23, 2011

Notty can demolish a beer, so if you are trying to shy away from dry, be wary. Like others have said US-05 for American styles, and for that matter Notty is versatile, but fairly clean at lower temps and can attenuate well. US-04 is an English strain that will finish sweeter, and add some esters especially at the higher end of the temperature range. I just pitched a 10 gallon split batch of lower gravity IPA with Notty in 5 gallons, and US-05 in the other 5 gallons.

Cellarbrau · Dec 23, 2011

Since no one has mentioned it yet these yeasts are from very iconic breweries, S-04 is Fullers strain and US-05 is from Sierra Nevada.

The formulation of SNPA vs ESB is not far off (in terms of hopping rate, gravity, grist) either so that really showcases the difference between these yeasts.

Schnitzengiggle · Dec 23, 2011

Cellarbrau said:
Since no one has mentioned it yet these yeasts are from very iconic breweries, S-04 is Fullers strain and US-05 is from Sierra Nevada.

The formulation of SNPA vs ESB is not far off (in terms of hopping rate, gravity, grist) either so that really showcases the difference between these yeasts.

Citations please.

Although these yeasts may have come from the same original source, is there any information to indicate that these are indeed the exact same strain?

Cellarbrau · Dec 23, 2011

Um... you got me. A brewer in the UK told me so.

I think the US-05 being from chico is pretty well established.

Schnitzengiggle · Dec 23, 2011

Cellarbrau said:
Um... you got me. A brewer in the UK told me so.

I think the US-05 being from chico is pretty well established.

I have heard over and over that the strain is of the same origin, but at this point for them to be identical would be a stretch. WLP001 for instance probably wouldn't do too well at 60°F. However, I am unfamiliar with the Wyeast 1056 version which is supposed to be the same exact strain (over a dollar more in my area, so I opt for the WLP version [having said that, I used dry yeast fro my last brew day because I did not have time to make a starter before brewing].)

I have a split batch in the ferm chamber now with US-05 in one, and Notty in the other.

I could make a 3 gallon batch and split it using WLP001, Wyeast 1056, and US-05. I would end up with a very slightly, yet close variation, but not exactly the same. Although a very sensitive palette would be necessary to distinguish the nuances; the three beers would be different in their own.

I'm not trying to get into an argument, I am simply stating that each yeast brand is different (ever so slightly) which allows brewers even more diversity and options on brew day.

Many yeast strains may derive from a similar source, yet they have mutated into their own opposed to their origin. It can be easy to say that they are the "same" while indeed they may be "similar," but they are different.

Just sayin'

Cheers!

dannypo · Dec 23, 2011

S-04 is not from Fullers. The Fullers strain is WLP002 or 1968. S-04 is the Whitbread strain which is why many find it oddly estery.

CrookedTail · Dec 23, 2011

Personally I only use S-04 in my dark beers. Stouts, porters, and browns.

For pales ales, IPAs, and my red ale I stick with US-05.

ayoungrad · Dec 23, 2011

SO4 is the equivalent of WLP007

ArcaneXor · Dec 23, 2011

ayoungrad said:
SO4 is the equivalent of WLP007

I have read that somewhere as well, but I think it's much closer to the regular Whitbread yeast. Dry English has a more neutral flavor profile and attenuates more.

Yooper · Dec 23, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
Us-05 tastes much better above 68 degrees than s-04 if thats an issue.

That's a big deal to me!

I will often use S04 if my fermentation temperatures will be under 64 degrees, as I find that it's pretty "clean" at cool temperatures but if it gets the least bit above 65, it does get the typical English esters. Ironically, S05 can throw a few esters UNDER 64 degrees! But stays really clean over 65 degrees.

I do love the way S04 clears a beer so that I get crystal clear beer in a week using it.

I use S04 in several American IPAs, I just really have to control the fermentation temperature.

ayoungrad · Dec 23, 2011

ArcaneXor said:
I have read that somewhere as well, but I think it's much closer to the regular Whitbread yeast. Dry English has a more neutral flavor profile and attenuates more.

If you look on Mr. Malty's strain guide (Yeast Strains), he lists WLP007 as whitbread dry = dry english ale yeast. And from my experience, I get up to 80% AA.

NordeastBrewer77 · Dec 23, 2011

Cellarbrau said:
Since no one has mentioned it yet these yeasts are from very iconic breweries, S-04 is Fullers strain and US-05 is from Sierra Nevada.

The formulation of SNPA vs ESB is not far off (in terms of hopping rate, gravity, grist) either so that really showcases the difference between these yeasts.

Huh? Really?! Everyone knows us-05 is the Chico strain, but did you make the rest up as you typed it? And c'mon, have you ever drank SNPA or fuller's ESB? There's more than just a difference in yeast there.

Cellarbrau said:
Um... you got me. A brewer in the UK told me so..

Riiiiiight! Inside info noone else knows.

dannypo said:
S-04 is not from Fullers. The Fullers strain is WLP002 or 1968. S-04 is the Whitbread strain which is why many find it oddly estery.

^this is more accurate. Wyeast 1968 is practically named after fuller's and nothing like s-04 or 1098/99.

ArcaneXor · Dec 23, 2011

ayoungrad said:
If you look on Mr. Malty's strain guide (Yeast Strains), he lists WLP007 as whitbread dry = dry english ale yeast. And from my experience, I get up to 80% AA.

Still think it's closer to 1098 than 007. It normally attenuates around 75%, but does go higher on occasion. But who knows...

ayoungrad · Dec 23, 2011

ArcaneXor said:
Still think it's closer to 1098 than 007. It normally attenuates around 75%, but does go higher on occasion. But who knows...

The funny thing is that if you scroll down on that link, WLP007 is listed as equivalent to WYeast 1098.

Revvy · Dec 23, 2011

US-05 = American Styles
Us-04 = British Styles

Cellarbrau · Dec 28, 2011

As usual Revvy provides a good concise answer while everyone else squabbles over the details.

sudsmcgee · Dec 29, 2011

The details are the difference between good beer and great beer. Some of us strive to achieve a level above mediocrity. Please squabble away......

StophJS · Dec 29, 2011

sudsmcgee said:
The details are the difference between good beer and great beer. Some of us strive to achieve a level above mediocrity. Please squabble away......

Agreed. No harm in discussing these issues..

Adaman05 · Jul 2, 2013

StophJS said:
Thanks for the responses. I do really love the flocculation of S-04 but I could see how US-05 would be more appropriate for some styles.

I like the flavors I get with s-04 and I want it to floc out fast. If I finish high, that's okay by me. I also bumped up the grain bill. This is just my test run anyways, until my yg01 arrives and I can order Pearl and Apollo.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I can't get apollo at either of my LHBS's. Looks like I'll just swap it with more Columbus. I am pretty sure I'll make damn good beer, even with my substitutes. Very much looking forward to having everything on hand to do the 4.0 clone to the tee, though.

Edit: Ooops. Replied to wrong thread. Couldn't figure out how to delete it.

stz · Jul 5, 2013

I've used us-05 twice, first little rye irish red ale, second american wheat hop bomb. Spent a couple of weeks in primary, a couple of weeks in secondary and dropped out ok in both but it is easily roused in bottle I've found. I'm fermenting a s-04 best bitter now and it seems done in 2 days. Temp is easily 69-76f though so let you know how terrible the beer is. Actually I bet I'll like it, after about 3 months in bottle and a good chill (usually store cool, then fridge 3-7 days before serving) it'll be cleaner.

When to use US-05 vs. S-04?

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