Advice on all grain equipment.

Lefou · Jul 5, 2017

Matter of fact, my last ale was brewed on May 6. I bottled exactly three weeks later and waited until the first week of summer to pop a cap.
To tell you the truth, I'd love to lager but it's sort of difficult fitting a 6 gal glass carboy in a refrigerator you don't have. I've started buying kegging gear, but my ales have done well so there's no real hurry for me to buy extra stuff just for lagers that take longer.

Remos112 · Jul 5, 2017

I do have a fridge with custom thermostat and heating but it was in use for a Hoegaarden Clone. This brew was mostly for getting used to the all grain methods and gear.I have quite a few brews planned this summer. so the fridge will see plenty of action. I have been challenged to make a pilsner so will definetely need it for lager fermentation temperatures soon.

Lefou said:
Matter of fact, my last ale was brewed on May 6. I bottled exactly three weeks later and waited until the first week of summer to pop a cap.
To tell you the truth, I'd love to lager but it's sort of difficult fitting a 6 gal glass carboy in a refrigerator you don't have. I've started buying kegging gear, but my ales have done well so there's no real hurry for me to buy extra stuff just for lagers that take longer.

dyqik · Jul 5, 2017

Remos112 said:
Took another hydro sample and the beer fermented all the way down to 1.004 og was 1.060, I am very pleased with this result. The manual says siphon it to a secondary and put it away in a cold spot for a few weeks to "lager". I don't have a strong desire to do this as it could airrate or infect the beer. Would putting the primary in a cooler place for a week be a good idea? Or should I just let it be and bottle it after 3 weeks primary like I usually do.

If you can move the primary somewhere colder for a week or two, that won't hurt anything, and will help it clear and partially lager. You shouldn't have a problem with carbonation after a short cooler lager period. Or you can bottle and carbonate and then lager in the bottles if you have the cold storage for a couple of cases of bottles.

Remos112 · Jul 5, 2017

dyqik said:
If you can move the primary somewhere colder for a week or two, that won't hurt anything, and will help it clear and partially lager. You shouldn't have a problem with carbonation after a short cooler lager period. Or you can bottle and carbonate and then lager in the bottles if you have the cold storage for a couple of cases of bottles.

The fermenter is now in a livingroom corner with temps between 18-22C, not ideally. But like I said this was a proof of concept all grain brew and the temperature controlled fridge was occupied. I can move the fermenter to a basement wich should be nearer to 8-12 C I think I will put it there for a week or 2 and then bottle it. Thanks!

Remos112 · Jul 8, 2017

Did my 2nd all grain brew today and it went MUCH better. It was another 20L kit brew. but this time I was better prepared. I milled the grains the night before and I used 20L strike water and 14 liter sparge water so no lack of water this time.

I also checked the acidity with ph strips and was able to correct it perfectly with a few tablespoons of lactic acid. Then came the sparging and I overshot a little there and ended up with 25 L instead of 24.
Took a sample for specific gravity and after cooling it down it was a whopping 1.055 not dissapointed by that at all. Since I needed 24L in the kettle I decided to boil of some before adding the hops. That worked perfectly!
I ended up with precisely 20L as planned in the first place.
Then came the cooling, This time I hooked the hoses up right and this helped a lot too, The wort came out at 18" C into the fermenter. Finally checked the OG and it was 1068 and the recipe called for 1.066 so at least no bad infusion. Pitched the (lager) yeast and the oak chips and put it in the temperature controlled fridge set at 15"c the recipe says to crank it up to 20"C at a later stage. All in all I am satisfied and I can't wait to fast forward and taste this beer.
For the curious the ingredient list states:
Munich malt
Pale malt
CaraHell malt
Wheat malt light
tettnang hops
perle hops
Ultramoss
yeast Fermentis Safale S-189
and oak chips to put in primary during fermentation.
OG. 1065 (I got 1068)
FG. 1010
ABV 7,4%
18 IBU
18 EBC
This will be my last kit beer. Next will be a kwak clone and if anybodY has another good recipe I am open for suggestions after that one

z-bob · Jul 8, 2017

Glad it's going well. 2 Tbsp is a lot of lactic acid! (assuming it's 88%) I'm about to brew a 4 gallon batch of witbier and it's going to take 10 ml of lactic acid (I have very high bicarbonate water) and I'm concerned about using that much.

mongoose33 · Jul 8, 2017

Just something to consider:

If you keep trying different recipes and kits, you'll never have any sense of whether the product is getting better.

I think there's value, after every brew, asking what could have been done to make the process or the recipe better....and then, if the beer is something one likes, then seeing if it can be reproduced.

When I started brewing I offered an acquaintance the chance to sample my brew. She said, somewhat unkindly I thought, "I'll be happy to when you can brew the same thing repeatedly."

I thought it was rather rude, but there was a grain of truth in it, specifically, that one really hasn't mastered (if that's the word) the craft of brewing if one can't repeat a result.

Something that's worked well for me is to use a process of continuous quality improvement. I try to do something better every time....and over time, I believe that's made a huge impact on what I'm able to produce.

So if you can find one of these recipes you like, see if you can reproduce it or, better yet, improve it. Bouncing from recipe and kit to recipe and kit is less likely, IMO, to give you meaningful feedback.

My 2 cents. Brew on!

*******************

Nine days ago I brewed a dark lager that has a grain bill somewhat similar to yours: 5# Maris Otter, 5# Munich, 6 oz 20L Crystal, 6 oz Chocolate Malt, 4 oz Chocolate Wheat, 3 oz Cara 8, Hallertau hops. I'm using an accelerated fermentation schedule such that I'm now in the crashing mode, down to 32/0 degrees. When I checked gravity at the end of fermentation I poured the hydrometer beer into a clear glass. Yum! Offered a taste to my wife who took three swallows (!) and pronounced it good. I can't wait for it to be cold and carbed.

Remos112 · Jul 8, 2017

z-bob said:
Glad it's going well. 2 Tbsp is a lot of lactic acid! (assuming it's 88%) I'm about to brew a 4 gallon batch of witbier and it's going to take 10 ml of lactic acid (I have very high bicarbonate water) and I'm concerned about using that much.

I used 1 Tbsp to achieve ph 5.5 for my 20L strike water, and the rest along the way with a total of 34L /9Gallon of water. no idea if this is a lot or not, but it is what the recipe called for and what the ph strips told me. It was 80% lactic acid. Does this make more sense to you now?

Remos112 · Jul 8, 2017

mongoose33 said:
Just something to consider:

If you keep trying different recipes and kits, you'll never have any sense of whether the product is getting better.

I think there's value, after every brew, asking what could have been done to make the process or the recipe better....and then, if the beer is something one likes, then seeing if it can be reproduced.

When I started brewing I offered an acquaintance the chance to sample my brew. She said, somewhat unkindly I thought, "I'll be happy to when you can brew the same thing repeatedly."

I thought it was rather rude, but there was a grain of truth in it, specifically, that one really hasn't mastered (if that's the word) the craft of brewing if one can't repeat a result.

Something that's worked well for me is to use a process of continuous quality improvement. I try to do something better every time....and over time, I believe that's made a huge impact on what I'm able to produce.

So if you can find one of these recipes you like, see if you can reproduce it or, better yet, improve it. Bouncing from recipe and kit to recipe and kit is less likely, IMO, to give you meaningful feedback.

My 2 cents. Brew on!

*******************

Nine days ago I brewed a dark lager that has a grain bill somewhat similar to yours: 5# Maris Otter, 5# Munich, 6 oz 20L Crystal, 6 oz Chocolate Malt, 4 oz Chocolate Wheat, 3 oz Cara 8, Hallertau hops. I'm using an accelerated fermentation schedule such that I'm now in the crashing mode, down to 32/0 degrees. When I checked gravity at the end of fermentation I poured the hydrometer beer into a clear glass. Yum! Offered a taste to my wife who took three swallows (!) and pronounced it good. I can't wait for it to be cold and carbed.

Very good point and spot on with my exact thoughts. I used these 2 kits to get familiar with my equipment and that seems to go quite well. I have already stockpiled +/- 30 kg of stuff for my "real" brew. The plan is to make a Kwak clone and to make it 4 more times, consistently
Thanks for your comment though makes a lot of sense!

..

Remos112 · Jul 8, 2017

This is the recipe I found on here that I am planning to brew several times:

Batch size 5 gallons
Boil size 6.47 gallons
Boil time 90 minutes
Grain weight 15.47 pounds
Efficiency 75%
Original gravity 1.084
Final gravity 1.021
Alcohol (by volume) 8.3%
Bitterness (IBU) 22
Color (SRM) 11.8°L
Yeast 3 liquid packs Wyeast ****1762 Belgian Abby Ale II

Grains/Extracts/Sugars 15.47 pounds
Pilsen ****36ppg, 1°L 11.73 pounds ****75.9%
Dry Candi - Clear ****32ppg, °L 1.6 pounds ****10.3%
Munich (Light) ****34ppg, 10°L 1.6 pounds ****10.3%
Special B ****30ppg, 140°L 0.53 pounds ****3.4%

Mash
45 minutes, 8.4 gallons Strike ****Target 158°F
5.2 gallons 170°F 45 minutes (+0)
Sparge
3.2 gallons 172°F

Boil
90 minutes, 6.47 gallons

Challenger hops ****8%, Whole 0.8 ounces 60 minutes
Goldings (Styrian) hops ****5%, Whole 1.07 ounces 15 minutes
Challenger hops ****8%, Whole 0.27 ounces 3 minutes (+57)
Saaz hops ****4%, Whole 0.27 ounces 3 minutes (+57)

Ferment
14 days @ 65-75°F

Remos112 · Jul 15, 2017

Bottled my first all grain brew today, it was super clear with a very subtle yeast cake and nearly no trub. It smelled totally delicious and another surprise, I managed to fill 60 0,3cl bottles so precisely 20L as per recipe. I am very pleased. Put one bottle in the fridge for some taste testing later and the rest will be kept at room temps for 3 weeks and then 4 weaks basement before further tasting.

z-bob · Jul 15, 2017

You're going to open one immediately? I usually open a bottle at one week, but really ought to wait at least 2. Bottle-conditioned beer usually doesn't hit its stride for 3 or 4 weeks.

Glad it went well

Remos112 · Jul 15, 2017

z-bob said:
You're going to open one immediately? I usually open a bottle at one week, but really ought to wait at least 2. Bottle-conditioned beer usually doesn't hit its stride for 3 or 4 weeks.

Glad it went well

Yes it was half a bottle so I figured instead of letting it prime I'd have a taste. I always do this with partial bottles out of curiousity. Wow this was a blast. What a flavour bomb. If anything I would like to have it have a bit more pungent taste(higher abv) but as this is still very very fresh no doubt it will turn out fine! I am axcited. The 2nd all grain batch seems to be stuck at 1018 will be starting a thread about that one.

z-bob · Jul 15, 2017

Partial bottle makes a lot more sense. I always drink whatever is leftover after filling the bottles. Carry on!

BTW, is this batch the recipe you posted here? https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=8040174&postcount=40

You can save a little money next time; clear Candi sugar is the same as plain table sugar. (the dark is something totally different) And you don't need 3 packs of liquid yeast. One is enough, but 2 is probably better. I brewed a dubbel a couple of years ago and pitched one packet of 6 month old 1762 and fermented too cool; it did okay (I got lucky) It is a very robust strain of yeast.

Remos112 · Jul 15, 2017

Funny you mention this recipe for this brew is planned for next week. No this was a store bought package called Duvels nat (The devils juice) The recipe you quoted will be my first all grain without the training wheels of a storebought package. thanks for the advice on the sugar and as the yeast concerns. I smacked 1 pack today and was planning to ceate a starter tomorrow (brew day is next saturday) do you suggest making a smaller than calculated starter? Thanks a lot so far!

z-bob said:
Partial bottle makes a lot more sense. I always drink whatever is leftover after filling the bottles. Carry on!

BTW, is this batch the recipe you posted here? https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=8040174&postcount=40

You can save a little money next time; clear Candi sugar is the same as plain table sugar. (the dark is something totally different) And you don't need 3 packs of liquid yeast. One is enough, but 2 is probably better. I brewed a dubbel a couple of years ago and pitched one packet of 6 month old 1762 and fermented too cool; it did okay (I got lucky) It is a very robust strain of yeast.

Lefou · Jul 15, 2017

If your second all grain batch seems stuck, you might try boosting the fermentation temperature a little bit. I had a small batch of winter brewed amber bock stick around 1.016 and assumed it was done. Went ahead and primed the bottles but after four weeks the carbonation wasn't right. The batch got put away and forgotten and the temps got warmer.
Evidently the yeast liked the warmer temps and decided to finish the job. The amber bock is good, but way over carbed so I've put the rest in the refrigerator for now.

Remos112 · Jul 15, 2017

Lefou said:
If your second all grain batch seems stuck, you might try boosting the fermentation temperature a little bit. I had a small batch of winter brewed amber bock stick around 1.016 and assumed it was done. Went ahead and primed the bottles but after four weeks the carbonation wasn't right. The batch got put away and forgotten and the temps got warmer.
Evidently the yeast liked the warmer temps and decided to finish the job. The amber bock is good, but way over carbed so I've put the rest in the refrigerator for now.

Precisely what I did today. The brew is in a temperature controlled fridge and I turned it up from 19c to 20c to see if this helps. Thanks for your reply

z-bob · Jul 15, 2017

Remos112 said:
Funny you mention this recipe for this brew is planned for next week. No this was a store bought package called Duvels nat (The devils juice) The recipe you quoted will be my first all grain without the training wheels of a storebought package. thanks for the advice on the sugar and as the yeast concerns. I smacked 1 pack today and was planning to ceate a starter tomorrow (brew day is next saturday) do you suggest making a smaller than calculated starter? Thanks a lot so far!

I don't have much experience with making starters. I usually just smack one pack of Wyeast liquid yeast, or use dried yeast. Lately I've been experimenting with harvesting yeast and repitching it.

I think making a starter with one pack of liquid yeast and pitching that is a fine idea.

Remos112 · Jul 22, 2017

Posted in the wrong topic sorry for that.
Did the Kwak Clone recipe today so the first time brewing in non kit-form.
It went excellent!.The maish went perfectly and I managed to sparge to exactly the desired volume. kept the PH figures nice between 5.5 and 5.2.
Also took notes of everything. I managed to get a mashing efficency of 77,74 % and the recipe was based on 75% so very pleased with that.
Boiled hopped cooled and ended with the precisely right volume. Took a hydrometer sample after cooling and it read 1.084, where the recipe called for 1.086. Overshot be a little but all and all I must say, quite a succesful day of brewing. Wil post some tastenotes when it's done!

Remos112 · Aug 5, 2017

Conclusion after 4 brews.:
The kettle is just big enough for 20 L batches, and the temperature control works pretty great. The filter tun with filter hex works great for parial mash as well. From sparging to boil takes about 40 minutes ( I insulated the kettle) but once boiling it doesn't have a problem with keeping the boil rolling. The bigger plate cooler I order is excellent too, I get 20 L of off boil wort to about 20"celsius in half an hour. I guess the mill does a great job too, the last few brews got me a mash efficiency of 77,7 and 77,4% so not to bad either. Would I upgrade in the future? Most likely, but all in all this makes a great starter kit!

augiedoggy · Aug 6, 2017

You can use the water tap but controlling the wort flow gives you more performance out of the chiller...

Also in regards to the 2000w being enough... A lot of people miss the fact that taller narrow kettles are more efficient when it comes to boiling and evaporation/heat loss... You can't really compare performance in a large wide kettle to the latter.

Remos112 · Aug 6, 2017

augiedoggy said:
You can use the water tap but controlling the wort flow gives you more performance out of the chiller...

Also in regards to the 2000w being enough... A lot of people miss the fact that taller narrow kettles are more efficient when it comes to boiling and evaporation/heat loss... You can't really compare performance in a large wide kettle to the latter.

I noticed this. I open the cooling water and don't mess with it after that and regulate temperature by further opening and closing the spigot on the boiler. This works pretty damn well

Advice on all grain equipment.

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