I was thinking about bottling mine today. It's been close to a month that it's been sitting in the secondary. How much time can a brew sit in a fermenter before you need to repitch yeast to achieve good carbonation in bottles? Also considering this is a high ABV drink.
Clone Beer Dog Fish Head - Midas Touch
- Thread starter OregonNative
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justw8asec
New Member
I just came across this old thread. How did this Midas Touch turn out in the end? I like this beer and would like to brew it this weekend.
Thanks
QUOTE=cercueil;816737]Hello All,
I went through the forum and didn't see anyone post results if they made a Midas Touch clone from the recipe in Extreme Brewing. Mine is sitting in the secondary right now and I will definitely post the results in a few months when its ready. As you know it is always hard to get the exact recipe so here is what I was able to find:
8 pounds (3.6 kg) light malt extract - (I used liquid here which was a mistake because I didn't get anywhere near the OG stated in the recipe. I now realize after researching that LME is 20% water!)
2 pounds (900 g) clover honey - (I used a local Wildflower honey)
1/2 ounce (7g) Simcoe hops - (Homebrew shop didn't carry these so I went with another DFH favorite..Columbus)
10 Saffron threads - (My brother brought back some really good Saffron from Turkey)
Fermentation
White Labs WLP001 or Wyeast 1056 ale yeast. (I went with WLP099 Super High Gravity Ale Yeast thinking that the OG would be huge)
1 quart (1 L) White muscat grape juice concentrate - (No home brew shop had this so I ordered it from Northern Brewer - Alexanders Muscat Grape Concentrate)
Process was similar to mentioned above except that I put the honey in at flame out. My OG was 1.060 and I added the Muscat after 4 days. From what I read this will only add about .005 fermentable sugar. If my FG is about 1.015 the beer will only be about 6%. Although on the brite side I might not have to condition it for as long as a 9% beer.[/QUOTE]
Thanks
QUOTE=cercueil;816737]Hello All,
I went through the forum and didn't see anyone post results if they made a Midas Touch clone from the recipe in Extreme Brewing. Mine is sitting in the secondary right now and I will definitely post the results in a few months when its ready. As you know it is always hard to get the exact recipe so here is what I was able to find:
8 pounds (3.6 kg) light malt extract - (I used liquid here which was a mistake because I didn't get anywhere near the OG stated in the recipe. I now realize after researching that LME is 20% water!)
2 pounds (900 g) clover honey - (I used a local Wildflower honey)
1/2 ounce (7g) Simcoe hops - (Homebrew shop didn't carry these so I went with another DFH favorite..Columbus)
10 Saffron threads - (My brother brought back some really good Saffron from Turkey)
Fermentation
White Labs WLP001 or Wyeast 1056 ale yeast. (I went with WLP099 Super High Gravity Ale Yeast thinking that the OG would be huge)
1 quart (1 L) White muscat grape juice concentrate - (No home brew shop had this so I ordered it from Northern Brewer - Alexanders Muscat Grape Concentrate)
Process was similar to mentioned above except that I put the honey in at flame out. My OG was 1.060 and I added the Muscat after 4 days. From what I read this will only add about .005 fermentable sugar. If my FG is about 1.015 the beer will only be about 6%. Although on the brite side I might not have to condition it for as long as a 9% beer.[/QUOTE]
ScarletBegonias
New Member
I've had this in primary for almost four weeks. Any point in conditioning it now or just strait to bottles?
cercueil
Well-Known Member
By conditioning it now do you mean secondary? You don't need to do that. Put it in the bottles and store in a cool dark place and it will bottle condition for as long as you like. It takes about 3 months or so for that hot alcohol taste to start going down. What was your ABV?
ScarletBegonias
New Member
I haven't taken a reading in a while. I'll probably measure this weekend and possibly bottle then too.
azoteman213
Member
This is how I did a 5 gallon all grain batch. I brewed it on April 18. I used 13 pounds of pale malt and mashed at 148F (I was worried about attenuation). I added .50 oz of Simcoe at 60 minutes and the 10 threads of saffron at flameout but did not add the honey in the boil. The O.G was 1.061. On the third day of fermentation I added ~2 pounds of mesquite honey (some was left int he bottom of the jar so it is less than that) and the 32 oz of Muscat grape juice concentrate. With this addition and the assumption of 2 pounds of honey I calculated 1.092 OG using beer smith to calculate the gravity of the honey (14 points) and I used the brix to caclulate the amount of sugar added (1.89lb sugar = 1.017 points)*.
I pitched a 2L starter of Wyeast 1056 and fermented between 18C and 19C for the first few days then dialed it in to 18.5C and 19C for the remainder of the fermentation. I transferred to secondary on June 7 and crash cooled it between 3C and 5C until today when I bottled it. The F.G. was 1.006. It had a noticeable honey aroma so I am looking forward to tasting it and sharing the results in a couple of weeks.
I wish all of you happy brewing and I hope you can enjoy your brews soon!
azoteman213
*To calculate the gravity contribution of the Muscat grape juice in a 5 gallon batch:
Since Brix is sugar as a percent by weight (or mass if you want to be accurate), it is important to note the weight (or mass) of Muscate grape juice being added and not the volume.
Can of Muscat grape juice contains 4lb
(32fl.oz/46fl.oz) * 4lb = 2.78lb
Since it is a (wt/wt%) you could use the pounds directly to find out the amount of sugar being added:
2.78lb * 0.68 = 1.89lbs of sugar
If you use BeerSmith and input this amount of sugar it should give you a S.G of 1.017
I pitched a 2L starter of Wyeast 1056 and fermented between 18C and 19C for the first few days then dialed it in to 18.5C and 19C for the remainder of the fermentation. I transferred to secondary on June 7 and crash cooled it between 3C and 5C until today when I bottled it. The F.G. was 1.006. It had a noticeable honey aroma so I am looking forward to tasting it and sharing the results in a couple of weeks.
I wish all of you happy brewing and I hope you can enjoy your brews soon!
azoteman213
*To calculate the gravity contribution of the Muscat grape juice in a 5 gallon batch:
Since Brix is sugar as a percent by weight (or mass if you want to be accurate), it is important to note the weight (or mass) of Muscate grape juice being added and not the volume.
Can of Muscat grape juice contains 4lb
(32fl.oz/46fl.oz) * 4lb = 2.78lb
Since it is a (wt/wt%) you could use the pounds directly to find out the amount of sugar being added:
2.78lb * 0.68 = 1.89lbs of sugar
If you use BeerSmith and input this amount of sugar it should give you a S.G of 1.017
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
justw8asec
New Member
I can't wait to hear how things went. I've held off on this clone so this might be just what I need to brew it.
zimmerj81
Well-Known Member
I did mine a bit differently. I added the muscat grape juice at flameout. I was concerned about the sterility since it was given to me by the owner of my LHBS in a glass bottle, so that is part of the reason for adding it in the boil but also because I was following the Brew Your Own recipe. I also added the saffron in the last 15 mins of the boil & added the honey at flameout. It tastes great so far but I'm letting it age in the keg for a while, maybe a month or so. I don't have the ability to cold crash so I had to just be patient & let the yeast drop out of suspension naturally.
After doing some more research, I will do it differently next time, much more similar to this technique. I read the article someone posted a link for on this thread where one of the Dogfish brewers said they add saffron in the fermentor for aroma more than flavor. I'm wondering how I'm going to do that..whether to boil it in a little water or just soak it in 95% ethanol for a few days to sanitize it. Also, I just listened to an old podcast interview of Sam Calagione on The Brewing Network where he says they add the honey during the whirlpool above 180 degrees. Since I'm not able to do a whirlpool since I use an immersion chiller, I think I will cook it in a pot on the stove for 45-60 mins around 180 since that's how long professional breweries typically whirlpool. Sam also says they add the muscat grape juice a couple of days into the fermentation. So next time I'll also get one of the sterile cans of muscat grape juice to do that.
After doing some more research, I will do it differently next time, much more similar to this technique. I read the article someone posted a link for on this thread where one of the Dogfish brewers said they add saffron in the fermentor for aroma more than flavor. I'm wondering how I'm going to do that..whether to boil it in a little water or just soak it in 95% ethanol for a few days to sanitize it. Also, I just listened to an old podcast interview of Sam Calagione on The Brewing Network where he says they add the honey during the whirlpool above 180 degrees. Since I'm not able to do a whirlpool since I use an immersion chiller, I think I will cook it in a pot on the stove for 45-60 mins around 180 since that's how long professional breweries typically whirlpool. Sam also says they add the muscat grape juice a couple of days into the fermentation. So next time I'll also get one of the sterile cans of muscat grape juice to do that.
azoteman213
Member
I tasted a 12oz bottle yesterday (one day short of two weeks after bottling). I heard a little hiss when I opened it, but it poured flat. It did not have much aroma, but I am hopping that will change once it is carbonated since it did have a strong honey aroma at bottling time. I may have tasted it to cold, but it seemed very tame, not much bitterness or alcohol hotness and not much honey flavor even though I added the honey directly into the bucket along with the grape juice. I will say that this beer is strong: I could feel the alcohol sneaking up on me after half a bottle. I gave all the bottles a few quick turns to re-suspend the yeast and see if that helps the carbonation a bit and will taste another bottle in a week or two.
Happy brewing to all of you!
Happy brewing to all of you!
azoteman213
Member
OK, I couldn't wait a week. I opened another bottle of this beer. This time, I let it warm up a bit before I drank it. I was wrong about the flavor. It definitively has some alcohol to it, maybe some bitterness but it is masked by the alcohol. I like the color of it. I nice golden hue like honey. The honey is definitively in the aroma (imagine sticking your nose in a jar of honey) I used mesquite honey instead of clove. Alcohol is also present in the aroma. It still is not carbonated (I roused the bottles to lift the yeast into suspension to see if that helps). At this point is more like drinking a liquor neat or a still mead more than it is drinking a beer, and, frankly, I wouldn't mind drinking them all just as is
. Has anyone else had any issues with carbonation or has anyone all-grained this and mashed at 149? What has your experience been? I have been mashing low obsessed with high attenuation, but I do realize that some styles benefit form a higher mash temp to get a little body and I am wondering if this is one of those styles. Thanks and happy brewing. Will update when they are finally carbonated.
. Has anyone else had any issues with carbonation or has anyone all-grained this and mashed at 149? What has your experience been? I have been mashing low obsessed with high attenuation, but I do realize that some styles benefit form a higher mash temp to get a little body and I am wondering if this is one of those styles. Thanks and happy brewing. Will update when they are finally carbonated.azoteman213
Member
Saffron is used in food as well and I read that when a recipe calls for it you can add it to water and let it soak for two hours, or you can used heated water and leave it for 20 minutes and then rub it on whatever you are cooking. You could boil it in a little water and add the water and the saffron to the fermentation vessel, although I do not know if that would be any different than adding it at flame-out (except maybe you avoid having the aroma carried out by the CO2 during fermentation). Your 95% alcohol (or bourbon, or vodka, etc.) doesn't sound like a bad idea since people do it with oak or other additives. I wonder if anyone has had experience adding the saffron directly in the fermentation vessel without issues. At first I was nervous about adding raw honey directly into the fermentation vessel, but after reading about mead makers not boiling there honey and having fine results, I decided to try it. It turned out with a nice honey aroma. I did find one bottle with a black ring around the neck, but haven't seen it on the other bottles so hopefully it was just the one bottle. So far it taste pretty good. Time will tell. Good luck experimenting!
zimmerj81
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, it just isn't worth the risk of at least sanitizing stuff before adding it to the wort/beer. From what I understand, honey can act as a vessel for wild yeast or even bacteria. I would at least pasteurize it by holding it at a temp of around 170-180 for 45-60 mins. I wouldn't actually boil it since I believe that denatures it to a degree. One would hope that the yeast in the fermentor will dominate & prevent any other contaminants from growing, but in my opinion, not taking the proper precautions means it's only going to be a matter of time before something goes wrong. Murphy's Law.
sathrovarr
Well-Known Member
I can't find any Muscat grape juice concentrate, can I use regular grape juice instead? and lower the water I'm adding to the wort? If so, then how much juice should I add that will match the same sugar amounts?
lurch
Member
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...ape-concentrate/alexander-s-muscat-46-oz.html
Although when I brewed I used Alexander's Gewurztraminer it's a little spicer than Muskat and it turned out fantastic!
Although when I brewed I used Alexander's Gewurztraminer it's a little spicer than Muskat and it turned out fantastic!
sathrovarr
Well-Known Member
northern brewer don't ship to my country
lurch
Member
sathrovarr
Well-Known Member
Yet your profile says New York?
Point taken. I've edited it.
zimmerj81
Well-Known Member
sathrovarr said:
Do you have any homebrew stores near you that also sell winemaking ingredients? I would ask if they can get any. Mine gets it in like twice a year or so.
sathrovarr
Well-Known Member
I've checked all of the wine-making stores but they don't sell it.
But I saw on this recipe: http://www.mrbeer.com/product-exec/product_id/965/nm/King_s_Nectar that they use not concentrated grape juice which I can find in a lot of supermarkets here.
zimmerj81
Well-Known Member
sathrovarr said:
Yeah, make sure it says "not from concentrate" but I would consider reducing it by half or so by cooking it in a pot on the stove. That will reduce the volume, concentrate the sugars, and sanitize it all in 1 shot.
sathrovarr
Well-Known Member
zimmerj81 said:
Yeah thats a good idea. Do you know what is the volume of the Alexander's Muscat?
And another question - I bought saffron but I think the threads are shorter than normal, does anybody knows how much saffron this recipe calls for in milligrams? Or maybe in teaspoons?
zimmerj81
Well-Known Member
sathrovarr said:
The volume of Alexander's is 46oz. As far as the saffron goes, I'm pretty sure I used a 1/2 teaspoon. I'd have to check my brew notes to be certain. I wouldn't recommend going by weight as your food scale isn't accurate enough for accurately weighing mg's.
sathrovarr
Well-Known Member
Oh, I thought ounce is used only as a mass unit... Thanks.
Are you sure half a teaspoon is enough? Because on Mr. Beer's recipe (which is very similar) they are using half a teaspoon for only 2 gallons and this recipe is for 5.
zimmerj81
Well-Known Member
sathrovarr said:
Northern Brewer said 46oz..pretty sure it meant 46 fluid oz. I checked & I only used 1/2 teaspoon of saffron. A little bit goes a long way. I used mine in the boil & I definitely noticed a color contribution. However, I either read in the article posted in this thread from a Dogfish Head brewer or on a Brewing Network show featuring Sam Calagione that they only use the saffron after primary fermentation for its aroma.
azoteman213
Member
Hello fellow homebrewers! Just to give an update. I bottled this beer on June 7. I was having carbonation issues (i.e. beer not carbonated after a 3 weeks). I started rousing the bottles every now and then and last week when I opened the bottle it finally had some head and some bubble nucleation on the bottle of my wine glass. I do not know if it was the rousing or just the amount of time it has been in the bottle. When it was flat it was good, kind of like drinking still mead or wine, but did not feel like beer. Now that it is carbonated I feel the flavor has improved and I finally feel like I am drinking a beer. If you bottle condition this beer, please be patient and you will be rewarded. I am just sorry I am down to my last bottles (I probably should have used only 12oz bottles instead of both bombers and 12oz). Hopefully I still have a bottle left a month form now so I can taste it with more carbonation. I crash cooled my last batch and added the same amount of priming sugar and still got carbonation in two weeks. I am no yeast expert, but I am blaming the higher alcohol content for the slow carbonation (I guess the yeasteas can get drunk too) Good luck with to all those that will brew this and those who are still aging some bottles. And if patience fails, there is always kegging. Happy brewing
) Good luck with to all those that will brew this and those who are still aging some bottles. And if patience fails, there is always kegging. Happy brewingRachmaelBenApplebaum
Well-Known Member
After having a good amount of the commercial stuff the saffron definitely isn't for taste, but color, and the weird hard-on producing satisfaction of trying to replicate a brew from ancient times.
ThaBrewFather06
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I just read every post on this thread!!!!! This beer is amazing from DFH I will defiantly be trying this brew in the near future. Does anyone know how long it needs to carbonate in bottles before it gets right?
ThaBrewFather06
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After having a good amount of the commercial stuff the saffron definitely isn't for taste, but color, and the weird hard-on producing satisfaction of trying to replicate a brew from ancient times.[/QUOTE]
I can't wait for this epic brew
I can't wait for this epic brew
ThaBrewFather06
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This costs 15$ per 4 PK to buyi think I can duplicate it for 50$ for 5 gal.
mmjguerrilla
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ThaBrewFather06 said:
It's on bro. We're making still as soon as your red sky ale is done!
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