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sprintbrew02

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Hi,

I am using ale kits that call for added sugar. I’d like to experiment with honey. Anyone with an idea of what I should do exactly? Meaning do I put half a kilo of sugar and half a kilo of honey when it calls for 1 kilo of sugar?

Hope some one can help!
 
honey is not 100% fermentable so expect it to add some flavor depending on the kind you use. so if you are adding honey in place of fermentable sugars expect your fg to be higher than expected.
 
Actually, to my experience, honey is almost 100% fermentable, very clean fermenting also. Do not boil the honey if you want any taste from it. Add it at flame out or possibly later.
 
z987k said:
Actually, to my experience, honey is almost 100% fermentable, very clean fermenting also. Do not boil the honey if you want any taste from it. Add it at flame out or possibly later.

are you using a wine/champagne yeast?
 
If you really want the honey flavor, wait until your fermentation is really going and you have a good Krautzen. Dilute the honey in a little bit of water (~1part water to 3 pt honey) and pasteurize it at 160-170° for about 3 hours. Let it cool to under 90° and just add it straight in.
My most popular brew right now is an Irish honey red ale that that has 2 pounds of honey added this way. The flavor is about 2/3 Irish Red and 1/3 sweet mead.
Cheers,
Jeremy
 
I concur, it ferments cleanly...but (and this is a big 'BUT') it also ferments very SLOWLY. If you're not careful, your hydrometer readings can fool you into false comfort, and then you bottle, and then you have gushers in a month. So be warned, if you use honey, expect A) lighter body, as it ferments out all the way, and B) a very long time to finish fermenting.
 
honey is very fermentable...but 1lb of honey has less sugar than 1lb of corn sugar...becuase of the moisture content it contains.

but at the amount you're talking about, its barely gonna make a difference on the gravity.
 
this is a really interesting thread
I'm only on my 4th batch of brew but I have 10 beehives so brewing with honey is high on my list
my guess would be to follow Germey's advice except to sterilize the water then add it to the honey
honey is antiseptic and shouldn't need sterilizing, that's why you can store it for years
heating it actually damages it and should be avoided
I'm going to try something along these lines as soon as I get some carboy space

Dave
 
I love adding honey to beer. It does not sweeten the beer but completely ferments to make a dry beer. Orange blossum beer added just a taste of orange on a beer that I made a few months ago. On that one I added about a pound to the wort while it was still a little hot and also used honey to bottle prime. I have a lawnmower beer 1 week in the bottles that I added almost two pounds honey while wort was still warm. I have some Eworts Apfelwein that I bottle primed with honey a week ago. Do I have one in the 'fridge?

I did have one Edwort's Aplfewein cooled in the refridgerator. Bottle six days ago with honey for priming. It is still sweet from the honey and lightly carbonated. In a week it will be totally different.

Back to your point. Honey is great in beer and the extra sugars will definetlay kick it up a notch, and after aging it will add flavor but not sweetness.
 
drobbins said:
this is a really interesting thread

honey is antiseptic and shouldn't need sterilizing, that's why you can store it for years
heating it actually damages it and should be avoided

Dave

There are members in my club who have done exactly that and even made mead by pitching yeast on diluted, unheated honey with no problems. but then, I once accidentally dropped a a musty copy of The Complete Joy of Homebrewing into the cooled wort and it came out fine.
Don't confuse a lack of biological activity with sanitary, though. Babies have been sickened and even died of botulism poisoning from the spores in honey. The high sugar content keeps anything from growing, but a wort is a prime spore activating environment.
The pasteurization mentioned above does a good job at not denaturing the stuff that makes honey so good, but it does take a long time to kill everything (hence the long time at temp)
 
drobbins said:
Honey is antiseptic and shouldn't need sterilizing, that's why you can store it for years
Dave
I concur.....The next time you cut yourself put a little bit of honey on the gauze on a band aid, and place it on the wound and see how quickly you heal.

My first batch which is still in the secondary has honey in it.
 
Not to open up a whole can of worms (not to mention I dunno if this has been discussed at length) but what's everyone's thoughts on this :

"Due to the natural presence of botulinum endospores in honey, children under one year of age should not be given honey. The more developed digestive systems of older children and adults generally destroy the spores. Infants, however, can contract botulism from honey"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey

botulinum endospores are dormant botchulism spores btw
 
That's why i only give my infant non-honeyed beer.:cross:
Seriously though, lets focus on what's important... the beer we are making.
I regret mentioning Botulinium and bacterial spores earlier. I was only trying to highlight the difference between "nothing actively growing now" and "sanitized".
Even boiling does not kill the endospores. Fortunately, the lag time for the small number of spores to become a threat is pretty long. Pasteurizing the honey is recommended as there are plenty of wild yeasts and other things that are present that may compete with your chosen yeast. (use a starter or add the honey after the ferment is well established)
This article is pretty comprehensive on the subject --- http://byo.com/feature/924.html
One more thing. We as adults are immune to ingested botulism spores, but wound botulism is a real threat. Don't put honey on your band-aids or you may get a Po-boy BoTox treatment. I see that Mr. Nick is Canadian, and I just read a report saying that Canuck honey is "much safer" than "foreign" sources, but that was from the Canadian Honey Council... make of it what you will.
Cheers,
Jeremy
 
MLynchLtd said:
This is true, there are warning labels on almost all honey products you find in the store

mike

Are you kidding me? There are no warning labels of any kind on my honey. Although it does say say not to give honey to children under 1 year of age. There are a lot of foods that should not be given to infants....Do we take from that....that there is something wrong with all of them?

Next time you get a good burn put some honey on it and see what happens.

You guys can discuss it or put it to the test the choice is yours.
 
Germey said:
I see that Mr. Nick is Canadian, and I just read a report saying that Canuck honey is "much safer" than "foreign" sources, but that was from the Canadian Honey Council... make of it what you will.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Honey is a sweet and viscous fluid produced by honey bees, and derived from the nectar of flowers. According to the United States National Honey Board and various international food regulations, "honey stipulates a pure product that does not allow for the addition of any other substance...this includes, but is not limited to, water or other sweeteners". This article refers exclusively to the honey produced by honey bees (the genus Apis); honey produced by other bees or other insects has very different properties

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey
 
Mr Nick said:
Honey is a sweet and viscous fluid produced by honey bees, and derived from the nectar of flowers. According to the United States National Honey Board and various international food regulations, "honey stipulates a pure product that does not allow for the addition of any other substance...this includes, but is not limited to, water or other sweeteners". This article refers exclusively to the honey produced by honey bees (the genus Apis); honey produced by other bees or other insects has very different properties

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey

Implying that the Honeybees of the genus Apis who happen to live north our border have some how learned to wash their hands.:)
Either that or the free healthcare has simply made them heathier...
We are now officially :off:
 
Germey said:
Implying that the Honeybees of the genus Apis who happen to live north our border have some how learned to wash their hands.:)
Either that or the free healthcare has simply made them heathier...
We are now officially :off:
Huh.....Stick a fork in me I'm done.
 
While we may be OT now, I am interested in where this is going.... going to read some of the posted links now.
 
While honey may contain dormant contaminants, if added to fermenting beer the result should be fine as far as I'm concerned. The contaminants are at a huge disadvantage because they are cast into a world of rapidly producing yeast cells and the toxicity of alcohol. I put plain old unpasteurized honey into the primary just after the peak of fermentation. That preserves the taste while reducing the risk of infection. One time I put honey in the secondary; the beer was great...three and a half months later.
 
( Bandit112 sent me a private message. With his permission, I'm adding it to the thread... at least I'm assuming he's a he. Guess you never know, but looking around at this sausage party, I'm going with the numbers.)

Bandit112 said:
I just started my very first fermentation which happens to be an Irish Red. Fermentation has been goin strong for 2 days or so...I liked what I read in your description. If you think I could do it for my first batch, about how much honey would I need for about a 5 gallon batch? Is it too late to add it?

Bandit112 said:
I forgot to ask if I already used yeast, will this eliminate the possibility of honey? I used liquid white lab yeast with the batch

Quick answer is no, you are fine to add honey after. In fact, I recommend it.
But when you add honey makes a big difference.
If it has only been 2 days and the fermentation is still churning a lot and there is a big Kreutzen on top you should get "Option B" from below.
I use 2lbs of pasteurized honey in mine.

Here are your 3 options, in my experience:
If you boil the honey with the wort, you will add alcohol, lighten the body, and add a faint hint of honey character (maybe).
If you add the honey at the peak of fermentation, you will increase the alcohol somewhat (a little less than directly proportional to the extra sugar added) and LOT of honey character.

If you add honey after fermentation is dying down, you will increase the alcohol possibly more than expected for the added sugar, you will still get a lot of honey character (assuming you did not boil the honey) and you will get a drier beer overall. When you add new sugar to a fermentation that is nearing the end, you will be giving a second wind to the hardiest yeast in the batch. If you do this several times, you can get a VERY high alcohol beer from yeast that would otherwise quit much earlier.
Of course, your results may vary depending on the specific yeast you are using, the OG of the wort, the phase of the moon, etc etc.
It will be good in less than a month, and it will be hard to stop drinking, but if you can save some for about 3 months, you will really have an amazing blend of the Irish and the mead flavors. At least, that has been my experience.
What was your general recipe?
Bandit112 said:
It was fermenting hard earlier today and it slowed down a little. It was showing action in the air lock every 3 to 4 secs for the amount of time I was in the room. (I am keeping it at my parents house because my house isnt well insulated) When I checked it a few hours later it had slowed down. The recipe was 6 poiunds of gold malt extract, Grains were crystal malt, special roast malt, roasted barley malt, 1oz cascade hops, 1 oz fuggle hops, 250WL liquid yeast, and the priming sugar. I'm not too familiar with all the different kinds of ingredients just yet...but if it helps, I ordered the Irish Ale Kit from midwest if that helps.

Starting with a kit is a good way to get a feel for things (hell, it's often not any more expensive than putting them together yourself). I figured since your first batch was a somewhat obscure style that you either did a kit or at least had someone help you. I was curious whether you had rye in the recipe or not. Some recipes do and some don't.
Anyway, add the honey or don't, but do come back and let us know how it all turns out for you. I hope I at least gave you some info to help you make a decision. Please don't be afraid to ask questions like this to the general thread. Then, instead of one idiot's opinion, you're likely to get at least 2 or 3.
Jeremy
 
Germey said:
( Bandit112 sent me a private message. With his permission, I'm adding it to the thread... at least I'm assuming he's a he. Guess you never know, but looking around at this sausage party, I'm going with the numbers.)

Bandit112 said:
I just started my very first fermentation which happens to be an Irish Red. Fermentation has been goin strong for 2 days or so...I liked what I read in your description. If you think I could do it for my first batch, about how much honey would I need for about a 5 gallon batch? Is it too late to add it?

Bandit112 said:
I forgot to ask if I already used yeast, will this eliminate the possibility of honey? I used liquid white lab yeast with the batch

Quick answer is no, you are fine to add honey after. In fact, I recommend it.
But when you add honey makes a big difference.
If it has only been 2 days and the fermentation is still churning a lot and there is a big Kreutzen on top you should get "Option B" from below.
I use 2lbs of pasteurized honey in mine.

Here are your 3 options, in my experience:
If you boil the honey with the wort, you will add alcohol, lighten the body, and add a faint hint of honey character (maybe).
If you add the honey at the peak of fermentation, you will increase the alcohol somewhat (a little less than directly proportional to the extra sugar added) and LOT of honey character.

If you add honey after fermentation is dying down, you will increase the alcohol possibly more than expected for the added sugar, you will still get a lot of honey character (assuming you did not boil the honey) and you will get a drier beer overall. When you add new sugar to a fermentation that is nearing the end, you will be giving a second wind to the hardiest yeast in the batch. If you do this several times, you can get a VERY high alcohol beer from yeast that would otherwise quit much earlier.
Of course, your results may vary depending on the specific yeast you are using, the OG of the wort, the phase of the moon, etc etc.
It will be good in less than a month, and it will be hard to stop drinking, but if you can save some for about 3 months, you will really have an amazing blend of the Irish and the mead flavors. At least, that has been my experience.
What was your general recipe?
Bandit112 said:
It was fermenting hard earlier today and it slowed down a little. It was showing action in the air lock every 3 to 4 secs for the amount of time I was in the room. (I am keeping it at my parents house because my house isnt well insulated) When I checked it a few hours later it had slowed down. The recipe was 6 poiunds of gold malt extract, Grains were crystal malt, special roast malt, roasted barley malt, 1oz cascade hops, 1 oz fuggle hops, 250WL liquid yeast, and the priming sugar. I'm not too familiar with all the different kinds of ingredients just yet...but if it helps, I ordered the Irish Ale Kit from midwest if that helps.

Starting with a kit is a good way to get a feel for things (hell, it's often not any more expensive than putting them together yourself). I figured since your first batch was a somewhat obscure style that you either did a kit or at least had someone help you. I was curious whether you had rye in the recipe or not. Some recipes do and some don't.
Anyway, add the honey or don't, but do come back and let us know how it all turns out for you. I hope I at least gave you some info to help you make a decision. Please don't be afraid to ask questions like this to the general thread. Then, instead of one idiot's opinion, you're likely to get at least 2 or 3.
Jeremy

+1
This is very useful. I was hoping to do a honey ale of some sort in the next few batches and I was wondering what adding the honey at different times would do.

Very informative.
 
z987k said:
No, it's just honey ferments out very well. IME

the sugar in honey will ferment out very well, but honey is not 100% sugar otherwise it would be sugar. there are attributes in the honey that should impart some flavors.

also depending on the amount of yeast and antenuation rate will determine how much is actually fermented or left to sweeten the final product.
 
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