Soldering Stainless steel

Yeah, I kinda noticed that too. No need to use silver solder (in which case you'd be brazing). I used lead free plumbing solder and it worked awesome. Strong as hell!

klyph said:

I was going to say, there's a difference between the stay-brite solder that as a little silver in it, and actual silver solder.

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AFAIK, the solder with a "little" silver in it is actual silver solder - it's just "soft" silver solder. Once you get up past 5% Ag, it becomes "hard" silver soldering.

After about 40% silver, you're into brazing and over 840F temperatures.

McMaster-Carr doesn't even list any solders higher than 4% Ag. Their silver brazing alloys start at 35% Ag.

-Joe

wyzazz said:

You'd be pulling against the natural curve in the keg that way, not sure if it would work or not.

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I'm going to give this a shot tomorrow, just for giggles. If you're doing a full coupler and don't care what side the dimple is on, it shouldn't matter which way you go.

Although since you want to heat the fitting and not the solder, it's actually easier pulling the fitting as I did in the pictures, since you'll be heating the outside of the kettle.

-Joe

I guess with the pull through coupler it might be strong enough, but with a ball valve and a camlock, I'm wondering how much force it would take to shear the joint with all that leverage.

nostalgia said:

I'm going to give this a shot tomorrow, just for giggles. If you're doing a full coupler and don't care what side the dimple is on, it shouldn't matter which way you go.

Although since you want to heat the fitting and not the solder, it's actually easier pulling the fitting as I did in the pictures, since you'll be heating the outside of the kettle.

-Joe

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If you were going to solder in a tri-clover fitting things get a bit more complicated. You definately have to pull from the outside in. You did a great job on the soldering, BTW.

klyph said:

I guess with the pull through coupler it might be strong enough, but with a ball valve and a camlock, I'm wondering how much force it would take to shear the joint with all that leverage.

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That was my initial concern, too. I beat the fitting with a hammer (leaving a terrific ringing in my ears ) and it didn't budge. So that's a good start

What sort of solder did you have in mind? I'm game to try something stronger, but not quite brazing strong.

-Joe

An interesting tidbit from the Harris website (emphasis mine):

Stay-Brite
Silver-bearing solders often used throughout the refrigeration/air conditioning industry instead of brazing alloys. Both Stay-Brite and Stay-Brite 8 produce an overall component with greater strength than a brazed component whose base metals are weakened by annealment from high brazing heat. Stay-Brite solders bond with all of the ferrous and nonferrous alloys. Joints soldered with Stay- Brite solders exhibit considerably higher than nescessay elongation for sound, dissimilar metal joints and vibration applications. Stay-Brite 8 is especially effective in filling loosely fitted couplings.

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nostalgia said:

An interesting tidbit from the Harris website (emphasis mine):

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Wow, that's an interesting tidbit indeed!

I have used the Stay Brite 8 on my system and it is incredibly strong. I do not worry about it at all, even with valves and everything else on the fittings.

See here I was thinking I'd have to go out and buy a MAPP torch or dig out the oxy acetylene rig, and the solder and propane torch that I already used on my RIMS tube, and mash tun manifold will work just fine. Now I've really run out of excuses.

Ok guys, my tri-clamp fitting arrived today from StPat's. My idea was to pull it through from the inside, pop it out, then pull it through from the outside after the dimple was already formed.

Step 1 was to ease the edges of the fitting. They're very sharp. A quick run on my 120 grit belt fixed that.



Step 2: pull the fitting through on the inside until it just exits the other side. Be careful here, as the 1" tri-clamp is smaller than the 1/2" NPT coupling. I started with a 3/4" hole instead of 7/8". You also have to stop before pulling the stainless reducing coupler all the way through. A little at a time.



Step 3: remove the fitting. Hahahahahaha. When I said "tight fit" earlier, I was not kidding. I ended up putting a block of wood on the outside and beating it with a hammer to get it out - which, incidentally, worked a treat.

Step 4: push it back in from the outside. This is where easing the edges came in. It slid right in and was still tight enough that I had to whack it with the aforementioned block of wood to get it out.

But does this look pro, or what?






Also, for the person who asked, I tried making a dimple from the outside in. As expected, it was no problem at all.





I was thinking of putting this stuff in a separate thread, since it's not all about soldering. Could a mod weigh in on that? I don't want to make a mess of the boards.

-Joe

Further interesting reading from Harris - the specs for Stay Brite and Stay Brite 8 solders.

Stay-Brite:
Silver 3.6 - 4.4%
Tin Remainder
Solidus 430°F (221°C)
Liquidus 430°F (221°C)
Tensile Strength 14,000 psi
Shear Strength 10,600 psi
Color Bright Silver

Stay-Brite 8:
Silver 5.5 – 6.0 %
Tin Remainder
Solidus 430°F (221°C)
Liquidus 535°F (279°C)
Tensile Strength (Cu to Cu) 14,000 psi
Shear Strength 10,600 psi
Color Bright Shinny Silver

So even though the 8 has more silver, the strength remains the same. It is, however, more "shinny"

-Joe

That sucks about the diameter difference, I was hoping to retrofit my weldless fittings, but they are already 7/8"

Also I think they were asking about going outside in on a keg with a thicker gauge.

I have run mine in through the reverse way before. No issues. Its no fun doing the welding on the inside but that's not really an issue here no is it?

As I mentioned before, very nice work nostalgia. I'm glad your thinking and using this in so many ways. At least as many as I have. Keep up the good work. That's also some fancy solder work, far better then I can do.

GreenMonti said:

That's also some fancy solder work, far better then I can do.

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Then we're even, because I looked at the welds in your original thread with more than a little envy I'm lucky to run a straight bead with a MIG.

Thanks for the kind words,

-Joe

nostalgia said:

Then we're even, because I looked at the welds in your original thread with more than a little envy I'm lucky to run a straight bead with a MIG.

Thanks for the kind words,

-Joe

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Ha,Ha. If you were closer to me I would ask for a lesson and a cold one.

Soldering or brazing is just not my gig. I wish I knew why.

Take care.

Hey all! Since I've actually started soldering up my system, I decided to continue posting in my main build thread instead of here. If you want to follow along, clicky clicky to get to the thread.

And since it's on topic, here's my first stainless-to-stainless solder. I used three rounds of 1/16" silver solder. I could not be more happy. I didn't even dress this joint, just wiped it down after it cooled.



-Joe

nostalgia said:

Hey all! Since I've actually started soldering up my system, I decided to continue posting in my main build thread instead of here. If you want to follow along, clicky clicky to get to the thread.

And since it's on topic, here's my first stainless-to-stainless solder. I used three rounds of 1/16" silver solder. I could not be more happy. I didn't even dress this joint, just wiped it down after it cooled.

-Joe

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Joe,

I wanted to thank you for posting all of this and adding to the thread. I started this thread but you've done a great service helping others with your posts.

Your documentation of the keg tool and part numbers are really helpful.

Wayne.

BargainFittings said:

I wanted to thank you for posting all of this and adding to the thread. I started this thread but you've done a great service helping others with your posts.

Your documentation of the keg tool and part numbers are really helpful

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Really, I should be thanking you. If I hadn't found this thread, I'd be paying $50 per weld for a local welder (weldor).

Posting my experiences is the least I can do, and I'm glad it's helpful

-Joe

nostalgia said:

If I hadn't found this thread, I'd be paying $50 per weld for a local welder (weldor).

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That's what I had to do but after finding this thread this evening not again. This has just opened up lots of other opportunities for me that I had been holding back on.

Wayne and Joe (and everyone else), thanks again for the thorough info.

Trace

OK. Maybe I have lost my brain, but I can't for the life of me find in this thread where it says I can get the supplies I need. I have a prop. torch, and would like to use the Stay-Brite 8 with the liquid flux. Do I just pick that up at the hardware store? It seems somewhat specialized????

Help a guy out.

...................................................

Also, I am hoping to solder in some fittings on a rubber coated keg. Comments? It is one of the sankey style kegs with hard plastic/rubber surrounding the SS vessel. My plan is to cut away a portion of the rubber, pull fittings, and solder. How hot does the surrounding metal get? Do you think I am going to melt the rubber?

A welding supply in your area should have it. This place has excellent pricing:
Harris Stay-Brite 8 solder
Harris Stay-Clean flux

If you are looking for a small kit:
Tower Hobbies has it at a very reasonable price.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Also, I am hoping to solder in some fittings on a rubber coated keg. Comments? It is one of the sankey style kegs with hard plastic/rubber surrounding the SS vessel. My plan is to cut away a portion of the rubber, pull fittings, and solder. How hot does the surrounding metal get? Do you think I am going to melt the rubber?

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Maybe try a high output soldering iron? Damp rags on the rubber to keep it cool?

Is it really worth it to buy stay brite solder in comparison to lead free "silver" plumbing solder. I have this stuff for copper pipe repairs. Is it suitable? Seems others have used similar stuff.
http://hand-tools.hardwarestore.com/69-407-solder/safe-flo-lead-free-silver-solder-602371.aspx

I've found that the stay-brite 8 is very difficult to flow on stainless. I eventually used standard lead-free plumbing solder.

pickles said:

I've found that the stay-brite 8 is very difficult to flow on stainless. I eventually used standard lead-free plumbing solder.

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I like it! That's my justification to cheap out and use what I got. Thanks Pickles.

I did not have any issues with Stay Brite 8 after I switched to a liquid flux. I have Stay Clean Flux and it works well (though the only container they had was half a gallon; I have a lot left).

Edit: I dont want to take away from your justification. I was typing this before you posted.

jfkriege said:

I did not have any issues with Stay Brite 8 after I switched to a liquid flux. I have Stay Clean Flux and it works well (though the only container they had was half a gallon; I have a lot left).

Edit: I dont want to take away from your justification. I was typing this before you posted.

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No big deal. I'm sure stay brite works well for some but if standard plumbing solder works well for others I would rather go that route. I already have standard solder and don't feel like throwing down the cash for expensive solder unless needed. Things become expensive enough when you are trying to surround yourself with stainless steel.

In all my tests and successful joints, Stay Clean Liquid flux is the only one that worked well. So defiantely buy liquid flux, they sell it at menards and any welding supply house.

I use the Stay Clean for regular plumbing solder now as well, and the stuff works like a champ. It is completely worth it, even if you have to buy a lot more than you think you might need.

From my experience, the critical elements of soldering are:

Quality solder/flux
Clean surfaces
Heat control
Applying the proper amount of solder

If you can master those four things, there's no reason you can't solder. My main problem when learning to solder was that I was using a terrible quality paste flux that simply did not work. Then I was overheating the joints and dumping too much solder on it to compensate.
Once I got quality flux, I could heat the joint until the flux started to sizzle, then I knew to pull the torch, and use just enough solder to wet the whole joint, no more. If you're going back and forth with the torch and the solder, you're doing it wrong.

jfkriege said:

I did not have any issues with Stay Brite 8 after I switched to a liquid flux. I have Stay Clean Flux and it works well (though the only container they had was half a gallon; I have a lot left).

Edit: I dont want to take away from your justification. I was typing this before you posted.

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You should package some of that up in bottles and sell it to recoup a bit of your cost.

This is a great thread. I understand that stainless steel is the preferred material to use for valves/bulkheads/etc, however is there any reason nobody solders copper to their keggles. I have a bunch of copper fittings from miscellaneous household projects and was thinking of using them rather than buying new stainless pieces.

Thanks,
Jeremiah

My HERMS coil, sight glass and a few other fitting are copper to SS, sure copper is fine to a point

WOW! Just WOW!

This is why I <3 the interwebz.

Now I dont have to teach myself to mig stainless and settle for a crappy lookin weld.

Between doing a dimple and the solder this is WINAH!

I am goin elec and this is going to be superior to the ideas I was mulling over.

Will try to post pics when I get started.

Any idea on the proper parts to make a 3/8" bulkhead "dimple"?

Loptr

Loptr said:

Any idea on the proper parts to make a 3/8" bulkhead "dimple"?

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Hmm...McMaster doesn't seem to have anything smaller than the one I used. However, you should be able to use the same parts and only pull the coupler part way through.

Alternately, you could make your own if you have a belt grinder. I used a 1/2" NPT brass nipple for the tool I used to make dimples for 1/4" NPT couplers. It fits over the same 5/8" bolt.



-Joe

nostalgia said:

Alternately, you could make your own if you have a belt grinder. I used a 1/2" NPT brass nipple for the tool I used to make dimples for 1/4" NPT couplers. It fits over the same 5/8" bolt.


-Joe

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Thanks Joe,
I have been reading about the problems of stainless getting "polluted" by other metals and the resulting rust issues. Has this not been the case with your brass?

Loptr said:

Thanks Joe,
I have been reading about the problems of stainless getting "polluted" by other metals and the resulting rust issues. Has this not been the case with your brass?

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If you re-passivate with something like BKF I think you'd probably be OK.

Well, it certainly didn't affect how it soldered. As for passivating, I don't know the science behind it. My gut feeling is that since brass is non-ferrous that it won't be an issue, but I dunno.

Time will tell.

-Joe